The Digital Deception: Unveiling the Risks of 'Kid-Safe' Phones - Katie Colgan

Thank you everyone for coming to my talk. I hope you've been having a good day and I appreciate you all spending the time this late in the day with me. Um so I have just handed out a few notebooks. They're just a little gift from me. Um please make use of them as you wish. Um so my talk is the digital deception on the risks of kids safe phones. So just to get started a little bit about me. I am Katie Colin and first and foremost I am a parent. I have two small kids. I don't know if you've noticed. Stickers on the arms. Um, they're also outside. They've been with all day. Um, and they are the reason why I'm here.

Um, and why I'm talking about this topic. Um, they are of the preschool age. So, they're not quite in the area of being free to use tech as they wish, but they will be there soon. and I want them to have the knowledge to be able to use um phones as devices as safely as possible. So that's why I personally am looking at this topic. Um I'm also an educator. We have me and my um husband have planned to home educate our children and so I will be spending many many years with them educating them and also I run a um technology folks um co-op with the in Northern Ireland with a bunch of other

home families and we talk a lot about tech and there's education shared there. Um my background my professional background is in application security. So over 10 years ago now I joined a security company and learned all about different aspects of um how applications are vulnerable from cross-ite scripting surf all of those things and how companies are impacted and their users. Um so that led to partly where I am now. I know a lot of that stuff and I'm sure um being at a cyber security conference you guys are familiar with a lot of that too. but also looking at the breadth of security um for the average user. The fishing attempts, the scams, all of that

sort of stuff that exists in the world of of um the digital world. They're all things that I have started to learn from beginning at um a cyber security company. Um I have also have a social media presence. It's cyber sec mama. The logo's up there. That is a silhouette of my kids. Um, and at a besides in Belfast, um, one a couple years ago, I think. Um, and I try to post on there as much as I can, but obviously I have two small kids. It's it's hard to do that um, regularly, but I try to share some of this stuff on there as well. Um, so I am of generation that remembers my first piece of tech.

So I was 11 when I got my first phone. It was one of these Nokia 3210 and it had a Harry Potter cover. It had a gold lightning bolts on it. You could make send texts, make phone calls, play snake. That was that was what I had when I got my first piece of tech. And I so vividly remember getting that. So, we're going to do that fun thing of audience participation. Is anyone in here young enough to not remember getting their first piece of tech? I don't know if we're quite there yet in the professional world for anyone to to be that young, but I know that my kids will not remember the first detect that

was in their life because I've had my phone around them. They've been on a tablet, they've been on a computer, all of those things. They're not going to have that vivid memory of getting their first piece of tech. And not in no way is necessarily a bad thing. Um, but it's important to note that tech in their lives from day one. Okay. So, a little bit of stats for you. One in four six year olds in Ireland have their own smartphone. Do you remember what you were doing as a six-year-old? Was it playing on a smartphone or was it on bikes? Um, playing a park, those sorts of things. It's becoming younger and younger. Kids are getting their own

devices. It's similar similar stats in the UK. One in five three and four year olds in the UK have their own mobile device. When I talk about devices I incorporate tablets, smartphones, all they're all little computers that kids are h have in their hands. And when you give a kid access to a device, especially one that is capable of being online, and 99% of them are, you're giving them access whether intentionally or not, access to the world and the world access to them. Um, again, some more lovely audience participation. Are there any parents in the room today? Cool. Um, do you remember when your kid got their first device or have they got their own

devices at this point? Yeah. Do are would you say it's around the stats here or older that they got their own devices? >> Yeah. Cool. Okay.

Has anyone written in one of those notebooks that I gave yet? Can I have it? How do you feel about it? >> How do you feel about me? >> Oh, I sense that you were going for >> Okay. If you didn't anticipate that I was going to take it back, how would you feel about it? >> Uhhuh. Okay. >> I have been actually also taking real. >> Okay. >> Uhhuh. Yep. So, anyone else have any sort of secondhand feelings about me asking for one of those notebooks back? Anyone feel in any way uncomfortable about a gift being taken back? Well, this is the sort of feeling that kids get when you gift them a piece of

device, a piece of tech. So, kids birthday, you say, "Here's your smartphone. Go enjoy. This is this is your birthday present. Go have this is how we are setting ourselves up for the power struggle is often talked about between parent and child. Parent wants to keep their kids safe. They understand they need to know a bit about what's going on on their phone or on their piece of tech. They are setting themselves up for a hard time if there is no pre-warning of how you are going to have access how the kid is going to have access to that device. You give someone a gift, they believe it's theirs. Anyone who is gifted something, it's a for a reason um because it is the

property of that other person. And kids are fabulous at saying mine, mine, mine, and mine even when it's not actually theirs. Um, so you can understand how you might end up in that sort of situation. But what is it that is the problem with that? Well, we're not giving them the tools before giving them the device to set them up for success. So, how many people here struggle to have healthy boundaries with their tech? Even last night, I was like, I need to go to sleep. I'm getting up really early, and I still find it hard to put my phone down. But yet we expect kids as young as three, four, five to be able to

not be upset when the boundary is set of here you have 30 minutes on your phone or your game or whatever and then I'm taking it away. Those sorts of things are really difficult as adults to handle partly because the tech is designed to keep you there. That is how they are being built and it's going to be a fight that way. Um, I I I'm sure plenty of you have had the shared family computer. Um, that was how I grew up was before the phone, it was a shared family computer. That kind of scenario did give you that idea of privacy when you were given a gift of a device. So, you knew that whatever you did on that

computer could be seen by somebody else. Obviously, there are the things that kids do where they find ways around things, deleting browser history, deleting what they've done, but most people will accept that you're sitting in your living room playing on your computer, someone's going to walk behind you and see what you're doing. It was a very different scenario then to what it is now. Um, tech is 100% necessary. We are going in a direction where you need to be on tech government all government applications and things are moving to tech and so it's not I am definitely not anti-tech I am I am a profession in professional of of security it's about how we assist the next generations to

use tech safely and be a good digital citizen how do they use tech um in the best the best way possible for what we can do with tech and um keep theel elves and each other safe. Um there is a um organization called cyber safe kids IE and they have this fabulous campaign called same rules apply and um so there's a kid in a in a in a swimming pool. I would highly recommend you go and watch the video of this. Basically it's a kid who is dropped off at the leisure center, walks his way into the swimming pool. No parents, no supervision, no lifeguards on duty. kid doesn't know how to swim and he's been

left to go into the swimming pool. Like that should trigger uh that doesn't sound safe because water is really really dangerous for anyone who doesn't know how to swim or float at least. So why are we doing that for kids on technical devices where there is that level of danger that comes from being online for adults, never mind kids. So building up the the necessary steps to be unsupervised on advice is so important before you give a kid unlimited access or even in some ways limited access to a device. So what is what is that actually coming to the kids see a phone? So um there's a couple of companies that are making these what they call kids safe phones.

There's gab phone, the pin wheel, the bark phone, a few other companies and they're not always phones. Sometimes they have um watches as well, some smart watches that are all designed with the best intentions to keep kids safe. Has anyone heard of these before? Or better yet, anyone used them? Heard of them or used them? >> Used them. How do you How do you feel about them?

>> Yeah. uh you're relying on that company to maintain their backend primarily for location. >> Yeah. So location is one of the biggest ones. >> Okay, fair enough. >> Company just >> they stopped. >> No, that's fair. So a lot of it is reliant on what the company's doing. So um perfect. We have a few people who have have some familiarity. So what what I'm going to do is go through some of the um functionality that these phones can supply. It depends on the phone. I'm not being specific here on any one particular but first off you have mentioned already um the most common thing that people particularly parents want to do with their kids is know where

they are. If they are with their phone in theory you should know where they are. This is not uncommon. Pretty much every app has some form of location tracking these days. So, WhatsApp you can share a location. There are apps specifically designed to share with um your family. Um Apple has it. Um Snapchat, Snap Maps, GPS, location tracking is not un uncommon for anything at the moment. They also sometimes provide limiting app choices. So restricting what apps you can download from an app store. Taking primarily taking away what would be classed as social media because we all are aware of how negatively social media can impact on your mental health, on your body image, all those sorts of things. And so

these phones have a list of um applications that they sort of stop kids from being able to access. Some of them completely just make it invisible to the to the child um who's using the phone. Um but as we know kids are intuitive, they are smart. Um they're when we try to limit things for um the kids in our lives, sometimes they get around what we try to limit. So, just a little small side note of a recent um conversation I had with another mom whose child is I want to say eight, has a Mac, has a time limit on the Mac, and he uses Microsoft Copilot to find out how to disable the clock to get around

the time limit. So, she found out one day he was on his Mac when he shouldn't have been. It was before the time he was supposed to be on it. He admitted to using co-pilot to trying to turn off or to turning off the clock to break that feature. Kids are smart. No matter what we do technically, they are going to find a way around it. They are going to break it. That is just that is just nature of things. And for some things, that's a really good thing that they have that intuitive nature. We're all here cuz we break stuff and we want help. Um that's that's a a skill set to that is that could should be admired.

But it's what do you do when that happens? How do you help them figure out what it is that they need to satisfy whatever the curiosity is that they have? Moving on, um we have viewing messages. So fundamentally a big part of this is how how do you know what your kid is sharing with somebody else on their phone? So are they sending text messages to friends? Are they have they somehow managed to start messaging someone they don't know? A friend bullying them. You would be able to as the parent on your phone be able to see what's happening on the kids phone. Now some of them aren't completely you have a like for like you

can see everything that is happening on both but some of them are. We also have some of these companies are analyzing what is happening on the phone using their own AI systems. So, they're putting in the messages and the comments and whatever else the kid is doing on their phone, putting it into their AI, trying to see, is this something that should that could be dangerous? Is it cyber bullying? Is it some something related to drugs? Is it something that we need to be worried about? Take a screenshot of that image, send it to the parent to say, "Here's something you need to be aware of." Um, and so it can be things that are

maybe public comments that they're sharing with their um their friends on YouTube or um if they're on Tik Tok or Instagram, but it's also then going to be the private messages between themselves and their family or their best friend. And the limit to that is that the best friend might say something that is is worrying and it's then being sent to to that that that f friend parent. Um and lastly we have um listening in to surroundings. So we all are fairly aware that we are being listened to most of the time. How often you talk about something around your friends and you get an ad for that. Um, but with this, it could be a child

walking down your street with one of those watches that you would be using maybe to track their location, but it's listening into a stranger walking down the street just having a conversation. You might be outside your street on your street taking a walk and that kid's parent somewhere, maybe they're they're at their friend's house, that parent is miles away. they could just hook into the to the app and listen in to what's going around them. From a parent wanting to keep their kids safe, if something said that was towards their child, something that would put their child in danger, I understand why this would be a a functionality that some parents would want. from a

an average person who happens to get caught in that. This to me is one of those sort of more red flaggy type um functionalities. So just to note some of those um functionalities with GPS tracking, restricting access, remote access to data and listening in putting th that functionality together. Is there any function any type of technology that you have that would spring to mind that's not about kids safe phone >> sorry >> so with all these techn this this functionality can you think of another type of application that might often have that functionality yeah >> sorry >> I'm using same I think the answer you spyware. >> Yes, that is the Yeah. Um, so yeah,

spyware. >> Um, so yeah, some kind of spyware. Um, and it's put together under the premise of keeping kids safe. And it's very easy to get caught in the doing absolutely anything to keep your child safe. But at what expense? So a a question that was asked at a talk I did at NIDC in Belfast last year. When we heavily monitor our kids on their devices in the name of love because we love them. We tell them we want to protect you from the dangers of what's on your phone. We love you. That's what we are doing. Could you imagine your child and they're grown up, they're in their 20ies, and they often mention that their partner

has said, "I love you. I need to protect you from what's on your phone. I must see what is on your device." Would you think the same thing of they're trying to protect them? Because unfortunately, that would be a sign of coercive behavior, the sort of abuse, and we wouldn't do it to an adult. So why is it okay to do to a child? I am all protecting kids but at what expense? Um so sorry lost my train of thought. Um it also can give a false sense of security to the parent because they believe they're doing something that is um protecting their child because it is a kid safe phone. Um, but they're alerted

when something happens. It's often cleaning up after the fact. When something happens, they need to act action it instead of actively communicating with their child about the risks that are they are being presented when they are on a phone and online. So there is also a moral dilemma when it comes to this kind of technology. As we've said, most of the functionality that I've mentioned is inherently available in things like spyware. But consider the privacy of child when they talk to an aunt. You know, they want to they want to share some something that has happened to them. They want to come to their parent. They want to talk to their aunt about it and

they text them. If the aunt doesn't know that their phone is being u monitored this way, they are going to have this conversation and try and obviously reassure the child for whatever whatever it is. But the child may not want the parent to know about that at a given instance. And also the aunt if that the aunt that knows or the the relative that knows that phone is being monitored maybe they have less of a communication with that child because not very many people want to be monitored in that way not out of badness not out of they want to do something nefarious purely out of well this is a conversation between me and my niece or

nephew I don't want their parents to see everything that I say to them you go out and have ice cream with with your niece or nephew, they their parents doesn't know everything they talk about. Not in a bad way, but simply just the nature of communications with people. Um, when we use this of technology without considering who else is is being monitored this way, it can be somewhat problematic for the the best friend of the child as well. like they tell their friend something not be aware that their parent is also going to be aware of that piece of information. Additionally, you're giving a company all of information about your child. Do you know what they're doing with it? So,

how does the information get from from their phone to your phone? It's not a it's a it's a it's not something you can see. There is a bubble there of you're trusting that company to be storing the data safely. You're trusting the people that are in that company to be managing their data. But also, you're giving your child's information to a company that is targeting children. I don't know about you, but when I see something that is saying this is purely for a child, especially when it's online, that's going to be the first target for a predator. For someone who wants to groom children, if they're going to hack their way into a company and they want to find

children, that's where they're going to do it. And if it's a really small company, they're not going to have the same type of cyber cyber skills, same security team that could prevent that from happening. They may not even really consider the cyber security aspect of their data. They're just thinking about how they protect the child in the sense of monitoring and that kind of thing and knowing where they are, all of that, which all perfectly fine to consider. But the risk that their their data is now exposed to whether it is from an outsider who who hacks their way in as we know happens. But also if you were never caught doing something and you get employed by that

company, who knows what you're doing with that data. And maybe that's skeptical of me, but we all know what happens in the in the online world and how people can get away with this. It happens in the physical world. You have close relatives who abuse kids and you just don't know because you've never seen it happen and they never get and plenty of them never get caught. And so when we're giving away our kids data, the child who cannot consent, you have to be careful of who you're giving it to. Personally, just from from my own personal preference, I would rather my child data be hidden amongst a million other users at Apple than be

entirely based on this one one of these small companies who is aiming to protect children. And I have I genuinely believe the people who start these companies and come up with these phones want to protect kids. They have kids of their own. They feel this is the best way forward for them. And maybe it is the best way for you. I have no judgment of if you were to go out and buy one of these phones, by all means, as long as you know the risks, as long as you understand what it is. It fits into your lifestyle and it fits how you use the device and how you present it to your child because plenty of people tell

their kids they're being monitored. And that's worse to me than being told you are monitoring them in the name of love or even just explaining why you're monitoring them. Um, they are some of the bigger things. Um, it's not all doom and gloom. I love the social media profiles of these um, kids safe phones, the work that they do to find how kids are using social the different social media apps, the different like games to cyber bully things like that. they or how they're using technology is really good information to know as a parent. Things like using Snap Snapchat, Snap Map to make kids feel left out. You'll have a group of kids who go out

together, show their um locations on Snap Map and then disappear, making that one kid who was left out feel alone. This is some of the stuff that these these techn these companies are actually giving out that information and it is so important that parents understand how kids are using the the tools in front of them. Um so highly recommend following their socials if you have kids and want to or or even nieces nephews friends with kids. um knowing what technology is used for by kids is so important to be able to figure out if there is um language that you need to be aware of. So the things like I don't know if anyone in here has watched

adolescence but the different emojis that are being used to communicate that we as adults may not be aware of things like that are so important for us to know and the these social media profiles they are fabulous for that. Um I I don't like sharing them that much because I don't want to promote the phones because I don't like the phones Paul that much but the information is important and so um it it is it is a really useful tool uh useful resource. Um so what's next? Um, obviously I personally would prefer not to have one of those phones, but you need to make your informed decisions on what tech to use and how and when to

access including child in the conversation. It's not simply you say no because no kid is going to listen to you. Throughout the years of social media as a child, the number of friends whose parents said, "No, you can't have Facebook and they just went and made one on a friend's computer and just never told their parent." That happens to most most kids, you limit something from them completely with no feedback from them and they're going to find a way to do it. So, it's having those open discussions about what fits your lifestyle and what works for your kids and your family. Parental controls, not perfect, but will at least slow your kid down when they may come across

something that they maybe shouldn't. Um, it might it'll limit the risk to them of seeing something that they um shouldn't necessarily see, um, like explicit content, things like that. It'll reduce the risk of that. Um, so definitely make use of parental controls where you can. Tech companies do not make it easy to use print controls. And in in my experience so far, it's better to limit what you're using and restrict how many apps kids are using and how much tech they are using to be to use the best to get the bests best of both worlds. Um, but wherever you can use the controls that are available to you. Um, the website called Common Sense Media.

Not sure if anyone has heard of that. Um, if you're getting a new app, new game, have a look at that website. It gets some information from parents and from kids to say what is actually on that app or game. What what age do they actually think that it's it's relevant for? Um, so if it's marked as a you know, a any kid can use it. Is it actually safe for a for a small child or is it more related to um a much older child? Um it's a really useful tool for um videos and movies as well. It gives you a little bit a little brief of what's in them. Um so that you can get some sense

of the app outside of just what's to you in an app store or on the website itself. Educate. Educate yourself. Educate your kids. Educate yourself together. If you can use tech with your children as much as you can, tell them about what you're doing on your devices. Whether it's you're doing the shopping, you're using Tesco to order your groceries, whatever it is you're doing, talk to them about it and show them how you make decisions about what you're doing. So, have you recently seen a scam? Have you seen a Facebook post that was, you know, go to this website and you'll get a free switch? you know, like something like that that's too good to be true. Tell

them how you noticed it and what they should be doing to figure that out and what they what you did to to either avoid it or did you fall for it. Let them know that you make mistakes just as much as anybody and what you do to fix it. Like have having that awareness for yourself and for them so that it just plants that little seed. The more often you can do that, the more often when they are on their own devices, they may think, "Hey, that sounds too good to be true. How how do I change? What do I do with this? Do I scroll past it? Do I engage with it? What do I do if I do

engage with something and actually it turns out that it's the um you know, they've stolen our credentials or whatever. Um, education for parents and kids is so important. Um and as we know um cyber security is a hard one to educate in general because it is so vast. And lastly um in on this slide, communicate. The biggest thing you can do for your kids is communicate. Communicate often. Communicate about everything. Be that two-way street. Make sure that if they have a problem, they can come to you and they can talk about it. and try not to just jump in and fix it because that might not be what they want, but hear them. Really hear them

about why they want that piece of tech, why they want that game, why they want to be on TikTok. Is actually they want Tik Tok or is it cuz all their friends are on it? How can you help them find a middle ground to what they want and what you know to keep them safe? How can you make everybody as happy as possible without risking what you know to be maybe maybe Tik Tok's completely out of bounds but maybe if you're with them they can be on Tik Tok so that you can see what's happening. finding some kind of middle ground will give them some sense of being heard and listened to because it's really really hard to be

outside of your friend group. And when there's that amount of peer pressure to be on tech because everybody is even as an adult, it's hard to sometimes step away from tech and social media because you feel like you'll miss out. But there's so much in the world that's outside of technology that you're also missing out on if you're always on technology. Um, so have those conversations. Try to be that support and try to make sure they know who to go to when they when they inevitably will come across something that is inappropriate for them to see or experience. If they can't come to you, maybe they don't feel comfortable coming to you. Do they have a trusted adult to

talk to? Can they go to someone like Childline? Childline has a web portal and they have a phone number that is free for anyone under the age of 18 to contact and talk through their problem. They would want to hear from any kid who is struggling with anything that is upsetting them because it means they won't spiral in the same way as if they're left alone and don't know what to do. So remind the young people in your lives that nothing that happens online is so bad you can't come back from it. Too often kids feel like they're alone when something bad happens. And there is nothing that happens that they can't talk to someone

about and come to some kind of resolution, some kind of backup and something to help them because the digital world is not separate from the physical. They are they are the same thing. they impact us the same way and we need kids to know that so that they can come and get help when they need it because they will at some point. And lastly, um thank you for being here. Um some resources, um Common Sense Media, as you mentioned, Childline has UK numbers and Irish numbers. I'm from Northern Ireland if you haven't noticed that already. Um so which is why um UK stuff. um NSPCC for anyone here who has any concerns about their um any kids in

their lives. The NPCC has or the ISPCC in Ireland both have good resources for what can you do to protect the kids in their lives? How can you um what kind of things can you do to talk to them? How can you make sure that they are feeling as safe as possible? um or how can you help in a situation that you think there is a there is a struggle um as I mentioned at the near the start cyber safe kids um i.e. same apply. Check them out. Um they are really they have a really good campaign there and there's a the QR code there is my link tree. It's got um all of my social medias on it and

I will put the slides up there as well. Um and just for anyone who is um maybe going with trying to reduce their own tech use like I have been because I find I am on my phone way too often particularly around my kids. couple of books which I did mean to bring with me but completely forgot um that I've recently read is one is disconnected by Emma Ganon and it's a really interesting read about how you can find a balance between the real communications between yourself and people around you and your friends in in the physical world but also have that relationship with the digital. Um, and also, um, a book called How to Say No to Your Phone by Brad

Marshall and Lindsay Hazuk is aimed at teenagers, but I really liked it. So, um, it's very pretty. It's very well decorated. Um, and it tells a lot about how you end up stuck on your phone. That loop of the continuous scroll, how you end up spending 30 minutes instead of 10 on your phone and you realize, oh, I was actually meant to be away 5 minutes ago. How you can try and break those cycles by consciously thinking about how you're on your phone, how you're on tech. Obviously in the professional world it's very hard to get away from tech because most of us will sit on laptops all day. Um but where we can if we can reduce

tech use and go and play games with our kids or our um friends, you know, go and have a DND in person instead of online. Those sorts of things can give us a good sense of community that isn't necessarily as as accessible on tech. Um, obviously tech has a place. Love a good conversation online. Um, but where you can if you can meet those people in the real world that is that is always good. Um, yes. Any questions? Yeah.

One question said

>> yeah. So, um, how can you break the the infant loop basically while you're on your phone? Um, I had not thought about slowing down my internet. That's a good idea of just making it more frustrating for yourself um to be on. Um, what I have found to be helpful is actually not physically having my phone on my person. So, while it's in my pocket, which I can feel right now, I am aware of it. I know that I feel it. I have a smartwatch on my phone on my wrist. Um, I physically put my phone somewhere in my kitchen and walk away. I also have turned on personal focus. I have an iPhone, so I

turn on personal focus and that only sends me messages, certain alerts me to certain messages from individuals. Um, so like my husband or my parents if they have my kids. Um, so that I only get notifications for this very specific things. And everything else I will get twice a day in the morning and the evening because I don't need to know. I don't need to know that Reddit has a new post that might be applicable to me. Like cuz it's not right now. It's not relevant in that moment. And so finding the things that are important to you is one of the best ways I've found to not be so tied to my phone. Um but that's one that worked for

me and I'm still not there yet because I'm still on it way more than I should. I also get daily um notification or week notifications of how the average amount of time I'm on my phone and sometimes that's terrifying and that makes me sort of go okay I need to put it away a bit earlier in the day. Um yeah that that that's about it for me. Any others?

>> China. >> Um, is it so having controls or an agreement with your kid? A bit of both depending on what works for you and your family. Uh, so controls can help when you're not there, but it's primarily about making sure they're aware of the risks of what they're doing. Um, having a having a discussion with them before they get a phone is a really good start because you can then present here's the information of what it is that you expect from them, but also maybe let them come to you with what you think that they should they think that they should be allowed you with their their device and have a have an actual discussion about it. Um, a bit

of both. I wouldn't I wouldn't say one or the other, but a bit of both. I think like working inite we know it's a lot easier to convince users when they know the reasons behind those things. >> Yeah. Are there any kidfriendly books or resources on online? >> Um so kid-friendly books I have yet to find any that I particularly like. I have debated making my own because I would really like to see that. Um so if I find any I will share them. Um but at the minute I haven't found any. If I come up with them myself, I will also share them. Um because yeah, books is such an important tool. It gets kids

interested. Um but yeah, I haven't I haven't found any just yet. Um that have sparked any interest. Yeah, I think this will be the last question.

Because it works at a certain point

and we >> might see other things like that. So I suppos

Yep. Exactly. The trust between parent and child is so important in the whole scenario of parenting a child. Um and yeah, the the the control aspect can help with the impulse control that kids aren't yet developed to mitigate. And lots of adults find that hard too. So yes, having that impulse control backup, basically the controls are kind of a backup for when the kid forgets or just doesn't think when they're when they're using a a piece of tech. Yeah. Cool. Thank you very much.