Jim Shields - The Funny Thing About Information Security

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get details from anywhere really people are so LAX bank accounts ideas Facebook accounts it's there for the taking I used to be the best I mean we were just send out emails key loggers you name me they click on links and we were taking their money hand over fist baby it was guy was gorgeous you know those those are the days man I think you've got to take it seriously I like to get into character which uh for me means taking it down a little bit if you believe it then they will I do uh mostly call center stuff great thing is they're low paid couldn't care less um well no see this is a thing I don't

know the password if you could that would be ever so helpful yeah I know I know it's a little bit naughty well everybody cares now Up Until then people really didn't care they weren't aware oh it's not their company they just work there people were getting training at their jobs but it wasn't working it was beautiful and Jim comes along with his humor oh ha ha ha guys a a riot if the uh if the weather's nice I like to take a trip out dead easy smokers or they already feel guilty for being there two cups of coffee Sly lock got the run of the place USB Keys files Twist and Shout awareness education it's embarrassing is what it is Jim

Jim took my livelihood and that's something I'm not gonna get back somebody had to do something

we make it funny for everyone haha

not laughing now are you

hello

so it's okay I escaped um I said I'd write them a social media policy and they'll let me go so uh tip that out really uh well thanks for coming along today I appreciate it um I just wanted to uh ask if you'd heard of a certain type of presentation because I wanted to talk about that with respect to today's presentation called pachachka sometimes people pronounce it as petrocution it's a Japanese movement for PowerPoint and basically they set a set of rules it's very popular there are meetings going on all over the world in lots and lots of different countries and the rule is and it's a backlash against traditional PowerPoint presentations where you know your drone there's 500

slides and it's packed full of information the rule is there's 20 slides 20 seconds per slide images only that's the rule if you can tell your story with that it's a great it's a great movement actually it's genuineness it exists if you look up Petra Kucha p-e-t-c-h-a -k -u-c-h-a um that's the Japanese symbol for it that'll help a lot won't it really uh uh pronounced uh then um if you calculate to do sums that's 6.6 minutes this presentation should last okay should this is not one of those sorry okay so a little bit about me um uh it wasn't easy growing up as the bastard love child of Jeremy Paxman and Eddie Izard uh you know born with an acute knowledge

of uh business and commerce but uh overwhelming desire to run off with a circus um uh this is It's kind of the mix that's in the company really but uh we you know we think we've got a great sense of humor but also uh we do understand Communications problems and every bit of communication should be there to solve a problem for the business that's what we firmly believe um are sort of caused I don't like mission statements I think they're banal and rubbish but this uh really is to bring some kind of reality back to business to business and business to employee Communications uh using intimacy and authenticity to feed a starving Workforce but well they are starving

because they're fed brand compliant media usually information heavy usually if it's a compliance issue like security they have to read it as part of the contract they have to go through a PowerPoint presentation or online e-learning or something like that they have to do it and tick a box you and I both know that that doesn't mean they've understood it necessarily or Worse still they're not really engaged with it and they may not change their behavior as a result of that I know one executive that said to me that when he was going through his compliance training he paid his teenage daughter thirty dollars to fill it in after she's done her homework that's actually an extra money it got him

accredited and it also meant she was really good at information security um so some of the areas we work in are transformation and change management um those images from a sort of a campaign that we put together for a big telecommunications company um uh and uh I think it was a statistic Christine you told me this it was it something like seven out of ten um change programs transformation programs fail it's quite scary when you think of the amount of money that goes into a transformation program and the one of the biggest jigsaw pieces that goes into that picture of failure is the communications plan because um I think that you know the management are the ones directing the change

they're the ones with the vision they're the ones pulling everything forward the people at the coal face the the people who actually do the work also contrary to popular belief won't change quite often if you talk to people at that level they'll say yeah we think it's a good thing we need to keep up we need to stay ahead we need to react it's very old news that you need to change yeah it's the intransigent middle area of management who have the most to lose sometimes or at least perceive to have the most of those the ones that dig the heels in they are The Gatekeepers that have access to the leaders and they are the ones that control the

layers below so they can they also control the flow of money in and out of different budgets and that kind of thing and so really if you can't get them on board then you really are stuck with a transformation program okay so um so we've worked in areas like you know internal Communications for the marketing department external sales people for training for them and awareness um and as I mentioned change management and as I say in each market for us that exploded was um was information security um this is an example of a campaign that we did for an insurance company in the US called Asurion they specialize in cell phone and handset insurance or

protection as they call it they don't use this word Insurance because they don't think they'd sell any um uh that was just two characters from a series of films that we made that were hugely successful for them even within the first 10 days they were seeing sales increases of 30 across a sample of 25 stores because of the nature of the the little comedy series that we created for them it was a massively successful campaign that one on information security we're very proud of one of our recent clients our recent additions to the fold which is Warner Brothers from Hollywood who contacted us to make a series of short programs about information security amount of campaign

for them uh obviously very proud and we also had access to the posters which we could rewrite and recast which was fun so people would double take the posters because they used to kind of sing the poster with Robert Downey Jr and Zach Zach nephilis but these are our guys from film so uh so it's quite good fun other clients include Sony and Barclays um uh and there's some other names that we've worked for not just in information security but across the board with this sort of work okay I'd like to show you a couple of clips now which unfortunately for copyright reasons can't be included in the video so apologize guys but um you know where

we are okay that was for it's moving not too far away from here in Nottingham actually one of the closest companies we've ever worked for um this is the work that we do for Sony I like the idea that they're trying to integrate superheroes back into society by letting workers interns in your company I think that's great on it um so um why did we land on information security as a niche market um essentially it's uh it's very difficult to make it look sexy um uh you know there are incidents for example One customer hadn't had an incident where a disc was lost now it didn't surface the information on it never came to light but the information

that was on it was a major tender document for a massive multi-million dollar project um and uh they were terrified that the competition might get out of this document and so they rewrite rewrote their entire security policy to try and deal with this issue um and what happened was um nobody went to the website to read that document who knew uh so we got the call to say how can we make people read this and I said well I can either threaten them or or pay them uh another of those ideas that we're going to fly on budgets that they had and also the illegality of actually hitting people making them read the document so what we so what we came up

with was a series of short humorous videos and the contract with the viewer is essentially that is if you give me two or three minutes of your time we will entertain you that's it it's a really simple contract essentially because then you change the whole dynamic of the communications and training arrangement to a pull Dynamic rather than a push because a lot of people in the room are probably responsible for sending out information the broadcast model yep if I tell you everything I know regularly surely someone will stick you know but the opposite model we find more effective where you make something that's sort of viral because it's very specific to that group of people I.E everybody that works

at that company and that it's a pull because people go actually do you know what that was that was quite funny I might mention that to somebody at the water cooler talk that's an American term really we don't really talk around water Coopers here doing sort of it's the smokers group usually but they'll mention it to their friends and their colleagues or they'll send a link on internally and that happens a lot have you seen this is Bruno have you seen that information security video it's brilliant that's the sentence you don't hear very often and so then that acts as the firework to attract people to a landing page where there's more information and that's once

you're in that mode and once it's made you laugh for two minutes you might go actually you know what I don't know how to pick a good password click frequently asked questions what do you mean encrypt an attachment what do you mean that the uptake is far far higher because you've set up a rapport with the person so they're open to the information it's just really helpful and then the trick is to not make it one firework but to let a firework off every couple of weeks so people go oh not next one is yeah so that's the that's why information security um also the interesting thing we found after doing a bit of research with some

clients was that the old way of doing it involved compliance training and I'm not sure what sort of training you guys are involved with but this is you know necessary as part of your employee contract to do this training so what they would do this is one particular this is taken literally from one particular client conversation so we we make them do the compliance training so that if they breach the security we can sue them because they ticked a box saying that they read the document or they finished the training good so then presumably you have to find some more people because you suit them all uh or whatever um and we felt that if people just

understood the context around what you're asking them to do they probably do it because they felt it was the right thing to do just putting it out there you know so so actually explaining context really helping them understand and entertaining them a look a bit just raising their awareness most people aren't against picking a strong password or you know remembering to zip up an attachment or something you know it adds a couple of seconds to that day but they'll probably do it if they understand how important it is especially if you understand it's connected with you know the Safety and Security of the company and therefore their job so anyway that's uh that's kind of uh the the

formula that was in play at that particular customer and so the I.T department or the information security department put on their own campaign and so they'll find a picture of a padlock because he has a soft symbol of security that's fine send that postcard with a padlock on it or something and and then some bullet points on the back that say do this don't do this don't do this do this don't do this so they're there to spoil the party basically um but that's uh uh not creativity and it's not that engaging and they've seen it a million times um I'm like really this is the best you could come up with um so I talked about Paul the poll method

of Engagement one thing one force the nature that we do come up with is the internal Communications Department uh which have a set of brand guidelines that have to be adhered to the trouble is if your creative idea is set in the 16th century when they didn't have helvetica medium did you do you know because you've just killed your idea by having to use that font and not only worldly or whatever my point is that the brand guidelines we forget what they're for and for those of you that are fans of Nancy assessinger will know probably all about objective setting and the idea that if you look at the objective of a brand it's so that

somebody in a warehouse in Calcutta can label a crate properly without it being in red crayon is to bring up a lower level of standard to raise up to a standard it's a minimum standard of communications it's not meant to be a ceiling to creativity it's not meant to stop you go beyond that point and so working with the brand guidelines and the department that polices them is interesting we usually try to get them involved really early because if we can get them excited about the ideas they'll help us find a way of presenting it that doesn't contravene or ruin their sort of uh standards um and so um we're really looking for um clever ways of positioning creativity in

a shell that can still be brand compliant the shell so for example the logo at the start of the video which Fades out and then the video starts or if it's a poster like Barclays we had movie posters as part of the creative but of course to follow a traditional brand guideline they wouldn't have looked anything like a movie poster because there are certain fonts in a certain way a poster is that you have to follow so um we put the movie poster at an angle within the shell of the blue background in the standard bar across the bottom and so the poster was on the poster if that makes sense and that was their idea

they said we understand that you can't break it in that way so we'll have to think about how best to present it and of course then it's automatically approved this is a great thing it's pre-approved so you've got to print the process and they're fine you know that they built them um so let's talk about engagement how do we engage employees and customers and partners and third parties it's it can start with something as simple as language the reason that so many companies companies speak in a sort of brochure speak way you know this this anodyne cold sort of horrible you know we at AstraZeneca believe blah blah blah yeah um everyone's guilty of it so I'm not

just picking on you but um um but the idea that um businesses grow up with a language and they use it to suggest a club that you can belong to to suggest that they're specialists in the same way that a policeman it develops this weird way of speaking that sort of says you know um uh on on the night in question the perpetrator moved off in a Northerly Direction so I might just say the guy that did it ran away because they're giving evidence in court all the time so they develop that manner and it's something they feel they have to do because they hear other people do it so a language just simply changing the

use of language within an organization can help and now with the proliferation of social media a lot of the time we are up against that as a standard now it's expected that you will be personal in your communication yeah put some personality into it now there is a worry from Brand departments and and Communications people but if you start to do that and we're a global firm the nuances will cause trouble in other areas if we're not clear we might lose clarity now it's possible I guess in certain very rare circumstances that you might lose some clarity if you are too colloquial well that's a really small price to pay for the massive benefit that a personal

connection will make if you are if people go wow who wrote this wow that speaks to me it's not about a wee or a royal we it's not a you know a directive it's a conversation and it's that kind of language that we really need to sort of develop within the organization so it can start with something that doesn't require any kind of budget just the language um there's a great one I can't really read it from there but on the bottom of that carton it says stop looking at my bottom innocent smoothies are great because if you read the small print it'll sort of say no no additives no coloring no preservatives um no dead slugs no gravel

and the iPod terms and conditions of the iPod Shuffle and the nobody reads the terms and conditions you just tick it and move on it says do not eat somewhere in there a little junk put in by the legal department just um you know it really does it connects with people people appreciate it and they're being treated like human beings um okay um so um let's see okay so let's talk about how we build a Communications plan uh how we how we uh create the firework and all that kind of thing this is what we call a creative rocket I don't like pyramid graphs so I picked a different type of pyramid because it'll be more entertaining

um any piece of communication whether it be a video or a poster or an email or a or a you know postcard um really should center around one concept given the amount of traffic flying around an organization today you are lucky if you get that one concept through the door if you're giving a presentation maybe you'll get away with two or three but within any section you really are asking people to understand one concept that's the rule that most companies break and I'll explain why in a moment because when I asked Barclays to give me um five headings three for five films so that each film could be about a single concept they said we've been working for

weeks honest we really struggle and we've got it down to 26 now I was I went dancing in the streets because I thought oh you got a budget for 26 films great you know that wasn't the case so um but it's it's difficult and the reason it's important to pick one concept is because it is a hierarchy you no matter what the medium is no matter how much money you've got you can get that one idea across using creativity the idea or for one of a better word the sort of creativity uh is when you've got your concept which might for example uh be what's a good example I'll pick the car industry because they are very good

at using metaphors for things um uh the Volkswagen Polo was marketed a few years ago as being very small and strong and the whole commercial was um shots of people under threat like rugby players bearing down on somebody or an explosion happening with firefighters and they're all crouching down like that and making themselves smaller and the message was that have you noticed you always try to make yourself small and you want to protect yourself and at the end it just had a shot of the polo and it just said strong and it was a very powerful metaphor yeah so that was their creativity now that would have worked on a postcard with stock photography that could you know

the language was very very simple but it was one concept they didn't say it's stronghold and it's economical and it comes in a range of different colors and and and and because if they had it would have just been information it wouldn't have been an idea and that's the difference and that's the mistake most people make with internal Communications or even customer Communications for that matter is they come from in business to business we are all about the information the next level down I've talked about this the execution is it a postcard is it a film is it an email am I using language am I using a font am I using a controlling image whatever

happens this doesn't change the concept Remains the Same we can stay with the concept no matter what we're doing because if our concept is with passwords for example um question the person trying to get in challenge the you know the person trying to get past a certain point then the idea might be in medieval times they said what's the password outside the port colors and then if it's medieval then your execution needs medieval fonts and you know no digital calculators or mobile phones and finally finally at the bottom of the hierarchy which you know the least important thing is the thing most companies start with the information because when we've got our idea and we've thought about how we're going to

execute it now finally we'll cherry pick the two or three bits of information that will support that one concept that's where the information is useful that's why it's targeted and that's what will get remembered the other thing is to bear in mind that this also forms a model for a Communications plan where your one concept might be here to draw people in and go oh yeah I have a problem with that or I understand that and then when you've got their attention and you've opened up essentially a rapport and a Channel of communication you can offer more information so what that what I'm saying there is really with the information layer make sure that it's

the right amount of information and that there's no barrier to that information make it downloadable and usable and user-friendly clear in the language you know conversational if necessary just real or you know sort of keep it real really um and that the problem really is that many companies try to go Upstream they'll start with a meeting going okay so what do we know right well we know loads turns out we know tons of stuff gone what I've got 20 Pages here on how to choose a password alone I've got we've got loads of stuff now obviously they then push that upstream and it gets whittled away well it's two lives too much too much less we've wanted to look

down to 26 things okay it's fine let's put that in a film or a video or a document or a PDF it's very long we need to put it down even further can we use fewer words or shorter words or read faster or you know it's all about trimming the information and it's it's all broken by the time it gets to the top people don't really know what the one idea is or what it's about because they're trying to cram information into a smaller and smaller space that's all they're trying to do and that isn't an idea that people will remember and actually it damages the information even to try and strip it down that much to

get it into a bite-sized thing because people go we've got to make a video to get people to to buy into this thing and it's obviously it can't be more than two minutes two minutes just two minutes I mean I've seen loads and loads of movies I've loved and none of them were two minutes long so um so I get quite I'm Evangelical about this I get quite frustrated with the way that we embrace the security of information and I understand that because a lot of people certainly in marketing in B2B have come up through the business so there may have been a lawyer or an engineer or a chemist or whatever and they've been really good at

that and they've got a great product knowledge and they're pretty personable so they've got reasonable communication skills and then they get promoted into marketing and it's great because well they've gone from service or sales engineer into marketing and then they've ended up in a position where um sorry no recognition there um they've ended up in a position where they're expected to make creative decisions but what they know is information so there's never any real training in the way creativity can help you solve a business problem um okay brand or Bland we've already sort of covered this and I've already talked about how the brand can get in the way and we need to remember what

it's for it's for uniformity and consistency and when you're trying to get a firework up there it's the opposite of uniformity and consistency so you have this tension between creativity and the brand now if you're a consumer brand quite often that brand is already creative if you're Nike or Coca-Cola or whatever it's already uses creativity very well to engage a market so without use to it kind of but in business to business Communications or internal Communications we think that that's nothing to do with us we think that we're in a different world and we have to use information and so the brand is something that helps us create a piece of design that looks nice

and and isn't going to get me fired so that's what's going to happen there I'm going to follow brand guidelines and I'm going to get that information out there and that's my job did people engage with it did people really change their behavior not my job my job was to get that document out there okay so I think the system is broken in that respect the reason we shy away from doing Brave things the old saying that nobody ever got fired for buying IBM is that we we don't want to lean into the problem of creativity because actually we don't understand it and it could get us fired I understand that I think that's why more Education and

Training on the nature of creativity in business is required I think it's a really vital part of business everybody talks about creativity in business they say Innovation and creativity are essential for survival the constant change that happens that people talk about it a lot in business terms but it's never applied to the actual Communications the the bit where it's supposed to be applied to especially in business to business I believe so uh there's a question I'm often asked which is Jim you make these sort of really cool little comedies uh is somebody in Jakarta going to get it you know uh and as we've uncovered quite a lot of research to suggest that compared to a

Talking Heads video by the chairman it's still more effective because if you're clever with the scripting these things are multi-layage you know how these kids movies these days are uh who's got kids they're pretty handle if you've got children okay nearly tomorrow Ross you'll be putting your hand up that's right it's about to have a baby just look at it but from here but it's the light in the right light you can tell but but basically when you you know you've got to sit through those kids films they're very clever now pixel will make them really cool I love watching I watched um uh oh Rio was I went to see last time lots of in gags for grown-ups

lots of movie references that we'll get the kids like the characters and the situations and the slapstick we're loving the sort of Nod to the parents that sort of says yeah see that that was in Scarface nice you know and uh and and they're very clever that's a layered communication yeah they're communicated to two completely different markets with the same piece what we're saying is that if we're creating scenarios like I've shown examples of today uh where there are vivid characters and we kind of get it there is there's enough action that if you turn the sound off you'd probably get what was going on really and so that's still a vivid picture and a story we are hardwired to

remember stories we're not hardwired to remember information and multiple bullet points that's not how our brain works um you know Generations ago when our mothers told us stories of the Bears in the woods that would eat us or the witches that would turn us into a frog to stop us running off into the woods on our own that was for a reason I believe that before I T that's what happened um stories are a very very solid format if you do any kind of memory training stories are used there do the story of your journey to work do a story where things connect it's it's very very memorable format and we're comfortable with it most of us

have a Storyteller within us if you know if you're telling somebody about how you got a nickname or you're telling a joke we you know again it's something that lots of people are comfortable with if I ask you to list your top 10 favorite films you really struggle you may have a top 10. in fact I really worry about somebody who could just reel off 10 films that they like that a bit scare me and so in terms of Multicultural work and Global organizations it's still better to try now maybe you'll get you won't get 100 of the cognitive response to the jokes and the nuances but you might get 80 and that's still a

lot more than you would have got if you've just simply presented information and the biggest crime is where video is used to present information because it's a really expensive medium for delivering information it delivers ideas and stories it's not very good it's a time-based medium once it's gone it's gone so delivering information is really hard to sort of keep track of it without rewinding people don't know what it's good at that's one of the problems um right um before and after the firework well first of all if I'm going to send up a firework I can walk out into any field with my milk bottle and my rocket put it in the milk bottle and light it

and I'll go and me and the guy walking his dog get to see it it's important to promote these communications to treat it as a campaign even if it's internal because saying something that's coming down the line you know presenting a HTML email with some images about what you were talking about especially where you are adopt the same theory that say the movie industry adopts which is actually to raise more questions than you're answering don't tell people exactly what you're doing make them curious coming soon May 2011. and then you can put any picture or word after that you want and people go what did he mean you know you can make people curious just by the way you present information

but if you say coming soon watch this space you create an anticipation effect so that when you do set up the firework people are going oh I remember that thing it's that thing remember that thing we saw that poster or that email or that teaser trailer thing so you create scientification it's a proper campaign and again it's just thinking about how you present this information then you send it with firework hopefully you don't send up just one firework you you spread out your resources over time especially if it's something where you really want to change behavior and actually you know one of the companies Experian did their campaign in one week of the year and we

weren't sure that that was really the right way they wanted it was great during the week they had 400 visitors to their website in information security before that week on average per week by the end of the week they were getting 30 000 hits on that landing page because they were releasing a film every day but kind of three or four months on minutes back down to sort of under a thousand and that's the problem whereas if you get a momentum you know how we're all into TV series we all like to follow characters and stories and things if we can get just a little bit of that effect going then we will have a sustainable thing so

the campaign over six months is far more effective and it will embed itself as a cultural thing more likely and there's no reason you can't repeat the campaign later or take that collateral and introduce it into the induction scheme for new employees there's um you know just every now and again re-run the coming soon bit and point people to the landing page and they can get access to that the media and the instructions and the stuff that you want them to get so that was before uh afterwards how do we know if we if we've won what was the measurement um it's not that revealing actually I mentioned hits on the landing page well that's nice

but it's not a really accurate way of understanding engagement or behavioral change and one of the weird things that happened with one of our customers was that before the campaign ran over a period of say three months around the world they had a certain level of reported incidents and information security when the campaign ran those incidents went up massively which panicked them a bit for for about a day until they explained that all of those incidents were happening anyway they just weren't being reported so what I encouraged people to do was pick up the phone and go you know I that thing that happened in that video that happened to me right okay so actually now they've got a

handle on it and they know what the picture is what the real picture is they can control it they can do something about it um so the news isn't not always what you'll expect but some kind of measurement program and certainly in information security there's no easy fix for this there's no easy answer um you really need to run clever surveys to get to ask the right questions it's a specialist area it's not an area we profess to know much about but I know that surveys and the statistical analysis of communications is a real Dark Art in some respects but you must try to do something that gives you a clue as to the change in Behavior your

return on investment it's easy with sales training because you can see it advising sales but it's harder with core functions and softer topics that kind of thing so um I'd like to end the presentation now with um one of the episodes from our new customer Warner Brothers uh the campaign went live a few weeks ago and they've had a lot of success with it very pleased and we're very proud to have them as a customer uh your privilege because only the people in front of me can see they're allowed to see this this won't be on our website anywhere and we're not allowed to broadcast it so I can only brag in front of you a lot

really which is not nearly a big enough audience for me I have to say so okay

to make a program for you can imagine the sort of pressure we were under creatively to come up with something I mean that audience has seen it all and made it all uh it's been seen by the directors on the Hollywood lot uh those programs have been shown as trailers before premieres of major movies in Hollywood so that's probably our proudest moment and and uh I've stood up pretty well actually they hold premieres on the lot in the private 600 seat theater that they have on the Warner Brothers campus and all the employees are invited to see the screening these are used as trailers throughout that so it's a great great way to get them out there make sure everybody sees

them so and they've been they've had great feedback and they're having great success with the campaign as a whole there were a series of posters that we produced as you saw earlier mocking up popular films that Warner Brothers have made unfortunately we weren't allowed to touch Harry Potter uh because it's off limits JK Rowling wouldn't let us replace Harry and uh Hermione with the two guys so at that stage all I have to say is there any questions does anyone want to ask about any of the work that we've seen or would you like to talk about any other areas other than information security I'll just say one thing uh thank you security besides next time I'll try and

press the record button okay any questions no I can't think of a thing can I just ask a question in the room in terms of communications I know that perhaps some of the work that we've shown you today so I think well either a there's no way we'd ever get clearance for that for the budget or we'd never uh we'd never um get away with that as an idea you know just corporately there's um what sort of things do you think when you see those sorts of campaigns plans respect perspective Alliance training which is immensely boring and tested yeah things like that I think you get to have the idea of having light-hearted posters around just to get

through the message rather than just doing as you say I'm very conservatives because the training is necessary don't get me wrong I'm not saying this doesn't replace training it it adds as an a a method of driving people to know that hey the training is important and where it is yeah you know how to find it and uh

yeah oh definitely but I think that if you just extrapolate down that sort of hierarchy that he talks about there are still ways of a little creativity goes an awful long way and I think if you just look at that hierarchy just think of your core concept what is one because everyone thinks that if we're going to send out communication we better get everything in it otherwise it's a wasted opportunity and that's the opposite is true I think if you've sent out one thing and people go wow I've never thought of that before you make them truly engage with that issue then they will beat a path back to you and then you can talk about other issues

but I think this notion of you know the firework and then the pull Theory really does work and and there are very simple things you can do that don't require you know huge expensive videos or that kind of thing there are lots you can do just with language just with uh simple cool things with a one one little idea that we suggested to a client was um about checking the identity of somebody when they were in the building or checking identity online that kind of thing um to create a series of little transparent stickers this lots of buildings have glass doors or glass walls and that kind of thing um and we have this idea of having a

little campaign to talk about identity and we stuck the sort of glasses and fake nose on the sticker on the glass and you could walk up behind it and you're like that that's a silly little thing it's a silly little thing but then the number of photos that people will take on the other side of that glass you know it's great and they can make lots of different types and they can upload the photos or they can send them to somebody you can put them in the staff magazine it's it's not you know that sort of thing is not at all expensive and uh takes it takes a bit of thought obviously but the idea is to try

and uh encourage that creative thought because it just makes the communications more effective and memorable and in terms of training um one thing that we're I'd like to think sort of pioneering to some extent is taking where they have gone to the extent of investing in a campaign like this is that uh oh you're ready to kick us out all right okay um basically you can use characters that you've set up like narratives that you're using to put in the PowerPoint presentations that people will see at a later date so you get that recall yeah using a sound bite from the film or from a podcast or something like that it's like hey you know well done at the end

of a module that you've completed as on an e-learning program all of that just makes it a sort of holistic thing and you remember some of the collateral that you created uh unfortunately we are going to get kicked out of this room now but I'm very happy to approach anybody downstairs in the courtyard if you want to have a group chat but um let me give you a cards thank you