How things work: A deep dive into 1Password security

so there's a lot of topics one pasture it's a huge system it's really complicated in some ways but it's really kind of elegant in other ways we'll talk about a few things in particular how you logging in how alters shared how you handle multiple accounts things like that the talk is fairly high-level but I do have some some deep technical stuff thrown up there but I'm not expecting people to really lock all the really crazy technical stuff just from listening to a slide for 30 seconds at time I do have an extensive series of blog posts the kind of version of really deep technical details and the idea there is I want to have enough

information there that if somebody really wanted to go and do this themselves if they could do it one thing I'm not going to do is compare this to other schools there's lots of password managers out there some of them are really good I've been using one password for close to 10 years I've always liked it it's what I use I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time to do a formal review of other systems like I said I'm here crazy crypto work and not really here to here maybe this inspires you to do the same thing and do a talk next year about how that system works that'd be great to see so we'll talk a little

bit about some some words in terms some of these are kind of specific to one password or how little password uses them you've got your your account which is a group of password vaults or just a group of places what you store passwords so you might have work account my home account do volunteer job and you do stuff with account Valter are we keep your passwords and they're not have to be passwords and one password they can't pass they can be notes URLs serial numbers one time the password token and things like that but they're all just items they're stored at all the two things you'll hear a lot in here are the master password that's what

you typed in when you unlock the client and a secret key originally they call this account key when they rolled out their cloud service and it's a it's a long string that you get and yes I didn't say this upfront but we're really focusing on cloud service partially because that's kind of what they're moving towards in general it's also the most useful and a family or a team or work context it's also in a way the scariest you know 20 years ago if you said we're going to put all of our passwords on somebody else's server in the cloud say you're crazy but that's exactly what we're doing that's why a lot of people are scared as this is

on somebody else's computer can I trust it that's why and they make it all work with cryptography like I said I kind of like so I kind of understand enough to be dangerous and I don't expect people here to be experts in any of these things because I'm certainly not some quick terms that will just be tossing around a lot ATS the advance between standard and symmetric key words that means that you use the same key to encrypt it and decrease compared with public and private keys in this case RSA is a pair of keys and you can encrypt data with one key and decrypt it with the other and it becomes very very useful for

parts of the system here their hash functions I'll go a little bit more into how hash functions work I will talk a lot about key derivation functions as well all of these things are used all throughout the already understand what these are terrific if not despite what I just said about waiting by boxes wanting to understand how all the black boxes work treat these as black boxes in just intuitive right now it's just a larger picture in fact if you want to go deeper into crypto absolutely it's a fun place so we've got a lot of content it's actually a really simple system to understand yes it really does need to be that so we're not going to build

everything from first principles here because that would be insane but let's start building a really simple password management together so the simplest thing you can do is just have a list so you've got a notes app on your iPhone you put all your passwords on the list called passwords hopefully your phone is at least locked maybe it's not so that's great way to do it except that if somebody that opens your phone may open that app all right so let's not use no tab let's use an dedicated to passwords and we'll put a little passcode on the front of the data is still not in fronted the passcode is just simply a number that's stored

somewhere on the disk so if a hacker gets hold your device they find where the passcode is they can unlock the app all right so now let's encrypt the data so how do we encrypt it well you've already got a past but let's use that as the crypto key so you type in the password or actually here in my example I'm not using that Skeeter we've got to keep it stored on the disk you type in your password it verifies the password it gets the key at the crumbs to do so now the hacker has to get out the encrypted data and then if they can extract the key or your password again so far none of these are really very

good so now let's actually encrypt the key and we won't actually store the password on the desk but now we're starting to get where it's reasonably good because a hacker could steal the the encrypted data but they can't do anything with it without the key they can steal the key but in this case and all my diagrams double-box printed in general the don't watching me dancing right so in this case the key is encrypted so yeah somebody hacks your phone they get the key to get the data but they can't do anything with it because they're both encrypted so what you need to have is a password so now the password is me stored on the system it's relying on the

user to type it in the password decrypt the key the key to groups the data now you got it the problem with this approach of the passwords make really brute force password by picking a password trying to see if it works if it doesn't work yet breaking out the password you try and see if that works if you go a way that we measure how safe a password is is through entropy in this case its own for example the word password which is just ain't lowercase letters if you assume that they're only coming from the alphabet of lowercase letters it works out to about 38 or yeah thirty eight bits adventure not a whole lot a good encryption key should really

be about 128 to 256 bits of entropy so you can see the word password all over his letters is just no good so that's where we have ways to try and turn password into a strong key you can do that with lots of things I mentioned hash functions earlier again we're gonna see these all throughout a hash function is basically a function that takes an arbitrary input and spits out consistently a fixed rate of bits what's important is that the output is completely unlike the implants indistinguishable from randomness it's got to be consistent so the same input should always produce the same output and it needs to be irreversible so you can't take a hash and go

backwards there's not encryption it's a one-way function and then also they're diverged in the caches of very similar texts can be totally different and I'm trying to illustrate that here we have three different words we're hashing password zero password one and just password and you can see that in all but two nibbles and the text is very close but the hashes are totally so again hashes are consistent that's great but the problem with that is now to users that have the same password will have the same key so now if you go back to the scenario where somebody steals them now they can possibly just go through a whole bunch of simple tasks you might have a rainbow attack or some

kind of another attack where they know what the sacrifice to look like they just say oh this architect looks like this that means it password is this so what they knew now what we can do is we can add a salt and what that is is a random string that you get added to the password that makes it more unique and makes it a unique strength it's not a secret it can't be a secret because the system needs to know what that salt is in order to eventually apply the salt though the user types in a key word so now what we've got is you have a salt that start on the disk you have a

password you type in the password it takes the password salt together it runs them through some kind of a thing produces a key which then decrypt the damn key which I think gives the data starting to be a little bit more complicated so far we're just talking about clients your phone your laptop we've also in this case got various problems on the server obviously you've still got to worry about things like password cracking even against the server somebody gets hold of the password this they crack passwords now they can encrypt your faults now boom they're going back against one obvious thing it's okay let's just make it to values into factor authentication that's great for authenticated it doesn't

really work for crypto because the key changes every 30 seconds so you're never gonna be able to crypt your data if the key is constantly changed so what agile disk though people who make one pasture did is they added a concept called the secret key in this case now an attacker wants to attack things needs to see Casilla the master key password you type in and maybe the secret key the secret keys is that long crazy-looking string there and that's actually there's there's multiple components to that that have specific meanings but this secret key itself is about 129 50 so this actually is a pretty strong key just by itself so there's a lot of ways that you can then

mix that in with the password you could so now you've got a password and then maybe you have to passion to get some kind of now you get the secret key to make a little bit how do you pull this together one thing you can do is you just mathematically add those strings expressing those numbers add them together a problem there is that you might end up with a number that's bigger than you need so in this case because of you know addition you get a carry bit and you have that extra digit on left if you're only looking for so many digits now you've got an extra one throw that away but that might have cryptographically

pertinent implications there are times when you do simple things like that you know throughout your day that way it actually makes things significantly weaker because of some foil down the algorithm you can also just block them together one right after the other super fast but I definitely got a thank you you can also use logical lose or operational but just take some kind of together and do some sort of bit level mashing between them and you know what the string that's the same length so that's what that's what you do here that's what it's done a lot of this is the ExoMars so now we have the secret key the there's that one string we have a salt and we have a password

put all those things together there's some magic on it match the stuff with galvanized to join up with a key Buchanan decrypt the theater key which I can decrypt your password this is great we took a short pass but now we have 256 bit key that's terrific but you can still guess the password because everything that I said has turned the password is short into but it doesn't instantaneous it's just a couple of quick operations and you know some exclusive ORS and stuff you can still brute-force it you've got the password salt if you have the path from the other salt you know the secret key you can derive the first part and then you got a brute-force of

secret key okay that's going to be tough because it's secret key nice it 128 bits that's you can't move towards that but if you haven't protected to keep the secret and you've got that you got your salt but you still need to use its bathroom now you just passed now we're back to the normal problems of take a strong password and that won't take much time at all because again the key derivation that the easier is super super fast so they slow it down without doing it 100,000 times they still recommend a strong password and actually they have their current recommendation is to use a forward pass phrase but just to make sure that that's

really strong enough they actually started a competition in May where they had they publish a list of 18,000 individual words just additional words they said okay we've got I think five different hatchets we generated by selecting three words from this list their recommendation was for they said we're gonna make these passwords only three words we want to have an idea for whether the forward is really a sufficient recommendation or not if they stop with four words then it is sufficient than the past word challenge would never be broken that's kind of why I think we can do that this started in May and as October 24th somebody finally cracked one and then literally just two

days ago on Wednesday I took the same team to craft a second we have an announcement how they did it will kind of break they had stuff like that but it ended up taking a lot longer than one password companies thought it was going to take they actually ended up giving out some pimping they double this the prize payoff twice and then they started giving little hints as to hashing hints to try and help people speed it up a little bit and so even with that it still took them close to six months to crack the first one so if you figure that that's six months and had a fourth word could multiply it by 18,000 times

four words of prophets all right so let's pull all this together we have a password assault secret key you have an email we didn't talk about that at all an email that's associated with mix them all together and that creates a final cake I call this the two secret key derivation process because there's two secrets the master password in the secret key and so this is technically what it looks like and this is where it starts to get a little bit more deeper you have the password salt which is going to be unique to your account probably it's a rather number that's just a sign your account when you've been created they have a string that PBE

s to G whatever that helps to describe the algorithm and then your email address if you have all those together through a function which is a special key derivation function result so that gets fed into key derivation function which then gets joined up with the results of the secret key in the end up with the final master unlock key the HK de esta is the H Mac key derivation function there's a specific RFC fourth it takes three parameters and then this describes the different parts of the parameters so for the first part you saw here the email address the salt and that algorithm then kind of put together the key is the salt the salt is the email

the info is that that extra bit there at the end and then the secret key is actually split into three components the a3 is the version which I guess matches the version of their system that their algorithm the account ID is the next bit and that's the only part that Angela will retain so if you call up and say I'm having a problem with my account they can say oh is it the account that starts with a SW WI yes it is you like talk about the right account don't have and then the last five groupings there is the actual secret so now we've got something that looks a little bit more like this your password all the

executive things all thrown to ZP key derivation because local key decrypt the data well again we've got man lots of crypto there's a really cool system called the secure remote password protocol which implemented properly is reasonably strong there's also some bugs that people discovered over the years and you have to be carefully implemented this is why I don't write crystal I find other people with their problems their Tolkien's dead but basically the way this works is there's five specialized functions five specialised math equations you take your password call it X and from f from X you pass it to a single function you get a verifier the verifier is what you send to the server

so you've never even send your password with the server you create the account you just send the verifier the verifier is kind of like a hash it's easy to compute but it's very difficult to go from the verifier backwards into the password so the client only the client ever sees your password and so the way it works is you take your password some random data run some function on it the server takes the verifier they got some other random data runs a function on it they exchange the random data's with each other so we to undo is the randomness of the other one picked and then they do some more functions and then the result because the math should

be that they both come up with the same number if you both came up with the same number then the client has proven that their password matches what was used to generate the verifier and you're in if you have the verifier but like i said you can't you can't reverse it to a password and in this case you can't calculate the second part because you need the password to get the first part like I said so the math is all here and here's the math if you want to even look up in the slam theater or the Wikipedia article described it pretty well it's it's mean if you just like that but again we need to have a strong password

so we've got the master password you got the secret key together those make an incredibly strong password we could just use that that's a 256 that bit password that's equivalent to 39 characters of you know the whole ninety-six character principle asking if you could reliably create characters that's a pretty good password so we've got that we could just reuse that but we should because you shouldn't read these passwords even though be reasonably safe you still want to so what they do is they take the same process the two secret character Peter of nature they changed the salt it changed a couple of other parameters and use that to generate the verifier this is the password so this is sort of

replacement for your password but then gets turned into a verifier this on top but it's exactly the same as what they use for the master key only they change they have a difference all we change the algorithm in 2's RPG four and six so these are the two secret care David keator ovation again everything takes the master password your email address it's got stored in the account when you create it there's randomly generated salts both for the password into the SRP and then got different names for the algorithms keys so on the server there's a lot of features that are only available through the server you can do most everything you want to decline but

there are a lot of account level features that are the server and again I'm not really going into account these or application level details but figured it's worth mentioning on there you can do things like you can manage who who has access to what faults you can change your account password there's billing things obviously but the SRP can't be used to decrypt the vault that's that's very important the vault data that you have is in couldn't do with the first half of it of the whole system you can't even if you get the SR opinion but if you able to regenerate that or steal that somehow you still can't decrypt it which means that agile

bits can't they have no way of getting into it at all unless they have

all right so it's great to have just a password list but if you're working in an organization and working the team you've gone got a shared access to different servers you might want to be able to share passwords with one another how do we do that you could you know create different lists it's got their own list of all these different accounts we could take a step backwards and think about how we might have done this you know in Victorian era so imagine a wall full of small doors all right you've got a drawer which is got little index cards in each index card as a password you get a new pass where you write it down then

you put it in put in the right space so you can find it easily just close the drawer you lock the drawer now you've the only one with a key your passwords are safe nobody else can get into that drawer well forget about so now if you've got passwords you want to share with the team it created a new door and you create three keys one for you and one for the two team members and you're going to give them the keys all right so so far so good what happens if somebody on your team isn't around when you generate the key you can't just you know when you create the new drawer you can't just go and

leave the key sitting on top of their desk so what you do is you give everybody go in these little toy bags it has a point on the top of the combination lock in front you go over to your team members to desk and you drop the key in the box now you've given them access to this drawer but you haven't had any way to you haven't had to do anything other than just drop through the death your co-workers can unlock a combination you know the key turn the key open the drawer nothing I assisted passwords and let's say also you don't want to make sure you want to make sure you don't forget the combination you're at

accommodation down a piece of paper seal that an envelope stick down my desk and so create an involved again you make a copy go around so this is whatever looks like you've got the accommodation written down stored in the envelope locking your desk it unlocks the key box key box contains the keys which open up the drawers that's exactly how one pastor Paul's worked in this case the master password key which is the master unlock you get when you type in your thing go through the whole TCP key division that is equivalent to unlocking your desk which gives you access to the vault keys or key set keys which is accommodation you unlock the key box now you get the thing

so it's in this case you've decrypted an AES key which he comes private key with decrypt individuals all keys which are equivalent to what you did for the drawers so it kind of looks like this ultimately its star skin starting to get a little bit weird so again I mentioned with the private and public key the way the private public keys work is if I encrypt something with somebody's public key only the person who holds the private key can then decrypt it so the public key is equivalent to the key slot you just reports on you drop the keys the keys lock point slot it's just like encrypting something with the public key you can give it to them but you can't

get it out you don't know so that's how this is working with this you add somebody to new vault you take the key from the vault encrypted with that users public key and then send them that encrypted part now they can decrypt that using their private key and get access what happens if you forget your password where's the one here you might have one for David one for Tom every got their own ones you might have some for teams there'll be another one just for admins that only admins have access to it's not normally downloaded to their client but they can get access to the contents of that through the servers they need to so

basically you are you need to reset your account you go through the process eventually having gets an email says here they go and through with this and you say yes do this and then all of a sudden the admin now has access to your key that they can then decrypt and then we encrypt with your new public key for the new account you just set up so there's coveri isn't so much recovering in all the county it's moving everything it's starting from scratch but because of the way the sharing false were they can get access to your data again and send it back to you so not new clean the date of a new clean all the keys

so how does it do deal with multiple accounts it's one password password and this is one of those things that has always worked for me and I didn't really stop to think about it until I started down this path a few months ago so what happens is you have the primary account on your client so the first one you kind of set up when you when you except the one Patra client becomes the primary as soon as you want to lock that that can then unlock the other accounts so on the Mac what this does is it works with the master lock key again you type in your password you've got the secret key it

runs through the two secret key derivation process you get the money the monthly crooks your primary account fault and then that goes ahead and decrypt some additional data is stored for all the secondary accounts so another accounts table there's a line for this account line for that account line for the other account all those are encrypted with the lock for the primary once you do that you get the master key for those second accounts and yes RPG so now those second accounts when we touch the circle times beta versions default they don't the master key that can unlock the key sets on Windows it's a little bit different on Windows they don't store the secret

key locally on the system like they do on the Mac instead what they have is an encrypted master key structure in their database that then goes on to decrypt those individual accounts thanks so Windows has this extra stuff at the beginning where you type in your password it pulls a salt and a list count of iterations runs through the password-based key derivation function to create another key that decrypts the master key that decrypts a piece of data that includes the users actual plaintext secret key and plaintext password those are then fed into the tcp generation process so the level technical detail of your interest in match key structures tells you how many iterations there are

and then how long your salt is provides actual salt so this kind of helps you this is what derives the key that didn't decrypts the next part which is an Opie data vault structure which is just about mmm format but it's there if you want so basically you type in your password it does again the password-based key derivation function only in this case it's using a different hash function associated with the sha-512 hash and then the iteration count varies with each computer so if you you know set your account unlock it it takes a couple seconds great if you move that account that whole your data over and you unlock it and take the half second to this oh that's

too fast half second it's too fast we're going to change this it will reinvent the master key with a higher iteration count such that it always takes about a second to unlock I want to make sure that that's so you type in your master password it pulls the information from the enemy structure he drives another key that then becomes the payload which contains the master key and a signature key signature helps to verify the master key hasn't been tampered with him and that goes on decrypt the account data and the accounts tab table so now we've got multiple accounts this is not really so on the windows you have your unlock password derives the master key which

then decrypts in a account information blob which contains the actual pass of the secret key for each account that uses the 2 fc2 secret key process decrypt the key set which then goes down and eclipse all the native the balls and then that can also be the next account which does the same thing on the mat you go straight to the T secret process it then you crypts the first key set which can then decrypt the second account data which standing groups the second key set so all that just brings it back to where we started everything that's on here we've not talked it's a simpler which again just kind of puts it all together

in one place the windows password unlocks certain data which contains information that is just simply provided by the user on a Mac which then drives master keys which one last primary account ten of lots of the keep set for the next accountants moving away from the microphone the cough doesn't helping the microphones lived here so where does everything kept this is again I kind of went down this path to sort of assess risk the question we were trying to answer to so what happens if somebody gets your master password what do they get and the question the answer that was I think everything but I'm not sure so that's when I kind of started going down

and digging and so that's where I found out where everything was stored on the Mac all your data is stored in sequel like database stored in your library the system the secret key is actually stored in the system keychain on Windows the vaults are stored X I was supposed to go on I haven't really used Windows extensively for years and years so I'm not sure I couldn't even answer that question clearly but there is sort of the equivalent to library on on Windows boxes where you've got sort of all your application data that's stored program it sits down in there and there it sits again I see blank password database it's a little bit different the secret key is

not stored anywhere else it's stored encrypted in the Gulf along with the master password you have a different unlocked password that probably will impractical master password but you type in a password it then decrypt that's other things the vault does not compare and then web browser is a little bit different web browsers don't store the data locally they don't store the vaults locally though once you've authenticated the system it's sent start chaos the server comes back says okay you know all these bosses okay tell me what's in this vault says okay here's the vault you decrypted bocalee so all the encryption decryption was happening in the browser but one important thing that I did did figure out is that when

you log in using the browser there's a little button you remember this computer sort of thing and usually that's just cooking someone dial in this case when you select that it also stores your secret key in the browser's local data storage so that's great because you don't have to find a piece of paper that's got a secret key and type in that long a 3 - X Y Z P whatever sort of string but it's bad and then if anybody can access your browser cache they can extract it it's stored in their encrypted but because this is before you've done any password stuff there's there's no it's a it's a fixed key that's dedicated application key is

actually a sha-256 hash of the string are few station isn't encryption but it doesn't hurt any time because I remember once you enter the key the first time worked but then after a while kind of forget it is there a timeout for for the browser because sometimes it seems like it's bringing the secret key I don't know if there is or not it might be the maybe you just didn't didn't click that remember this computer or maybe it does timeout after a certain amount of time I'm not sure I really don't use the browser interface except to do the account level things you know like magic like that but that is something that we were concerned about because again you

know the question was that we had presented to me was you know what happens if a machine is popped and they can Keelung your master password well they're on the box they've got the password we can eventually get access to secret key that you actually could get access to so the secret there is just to make sure your boxes so to wrap up some of these details here we've talked about the secret key that the main thing for that is it really gives the resilience to pastor preaches to the server the master password is when you don't like everything you don't actually send the password over the wire to the server when you're unlocking the cloud level

it's doing the secure mobile password and even the password quote-unquote that you use to authenticate to the server even though you're not sending it isn't your iPhone password you type in it's again a derived password of 256 bit strength their shared vaults that you can then share with other people there's recovery function that your team organizers admins can use to help help me recover password system lost or your account access with anything in fact utilize if you delete something from a whole there's a whole lot of other features in my password I didn't touch on theirs Watchtower which is a nice thing that it actually has a server interface that it can talk to and say hey tell me what the

latest breaches are say oh you've got an account at such-and-such did you know they were breached on such-and-such a day and it looks like your past with this last change before that day so this Patrick may be at risk there's another variant of that where the service it's a third-party service not one that they run and I apologize for not remembering it it's an outgrowth of tab I think Owen but I remember the name of the secondary service it does this but they actually take all the pwned passwords that are found and they build their own database and you can hash your password locally and then take the first I think five characters - and say hey so many hashes

that match this and they'll send you back it's about a hundred hashes or so typically and if any of those matched the one you've got then you know that they've got the password to dress down that's a way to say hey this password you've done for X account that service hasn't been breached but when you think is a strong password has been seen on some other password business which means that is now on dictionaries that hackers will use so now you might want to change that password - so watchtower is a nice feature travel mode actually you go into the web client you can say I'm travelling and it basically deletes your vaults from your

devices they also exist in the cloud but they're gone for your devices if you're going through customs hostile country then they can look at your phone and there's no passwords under it's just not there and then as soon as you're done you click problem loads off let's come back and it's fast I mean I literally tried that and I went back over here typed LS and the password there's some two-factor support both for authenticating to one password that you can force it to ask for a one of you know two-factor token and ask him how finicky with a two-factor every time but once a week or two like that it also supports time-based one-time passwords inside one password which is a

nice feature so you can you know your website's a password a new doom and then it copies your your current token to your paceman to the clipboard you had entered journaling back up is when I was working on this talk for work I originally gave this talk in a really rebated form in our little hackers we know the hackers back and mate and then I tweaked it to give us a lunch and learn at work and as I was you know enhancing slides and going through who makes me tried to miss anything or screwing up I found some some Keith have even recognized some data structures that wasn't there before I know this is done for a while and eventually I

reached out to a jold Vincent or support for me to say oh that's healthy like you found that it's a new feature that they're building where it will encrypt your passwords as you change them with a new key there's also based on your password that's five hundred thousand pounds of pbkdf2 but it encrypts them as you change them and stores them somewhere into the database and then at some point during the day when you're not doing much it finds everything has changed and writes them out to a file and the idea being there that they will get a consistent journal of things that have changed so you've always got it back up but it's not doing it in such a

way that it takes a long time out of your day so if you're you know sitting there trying to get to a password and it's in the middle of doing this process it's going to be super slow so they kind of split the process up into encrypting and dumping this way so that it doesn't impact the users but that feature is not wide yet even what I saw in one caster was only halfway there so this could also change a million ways from Sunday before it gets released it was kind of fun that there's clients on phones I have looked at those there's clients in the browser I touched on that there's a official command-line client

which is a pain in the neck that's incredibly powerful there's browser extensions there's security issues related to browser extensions because then when you know how does the browser talk back to the to the one password thing and they've got a lot they talked a lot about how that works there is the ability to send passwords other people through SMS which is just obvious PETA with the fix that works it's good if it's an emergency but then after the emergency passes you should probably change your password and then touch ID is great on the Mac's the new MacBooks and I guess now I Pro have touch ID sensors and it used to be that it would store basically that the login

data that was encrypted with the master on lock key it used to store that near keychain and there was when you were authenticated to the Mac by touching the touch ID it would then provide the contents at keychain and treated back to the application the application then will take your preferences file pull out a key that's hidden into preferences file decrypt announce get access to it that's reasonably good security they need access to the box and you to access preferences following to access to the keychain and theoretically you couldn't get to the keychain unless you're the one password app but and I haven't done you know really nailed this down but it seems like if the keychain is synced

over iCloud keychain then you can retrieve that with some work on other Mac's that are also subscribes to it was actually possible to pull a secret out of there and then pull this you could have the preference in the first box and you can decrypt it with the newest versions with one password seven it's actually changed that the secret turned out the key is in the secure Enclave on the box the secret is in the Preferences file when you unlock it is decrypted by the box you will never have access to the key you can only be done on the box it's significantly safer if you've got a touch ID Mac using one password absolutely I'm going to sell and that's

it I'm really grateful the actual bits for being so transparent about how the system works and especially for answering all of my questions and I kept throwing really ridiculous obscure technical questions at them and they were all very good at answering them and then of course expellers let me kind of turn the simple question we had the table talk into a long talk and really and we want to Daryl a blog I've got this I just published it this morning it's five different sections plus the beginning and end and all kinds of data ridiculous amounts of technical detail I also have on the github github repository I put some simple example scripts that you can use to decrypt the

data so basically you can say I'm going to decrypt the muck okay what's the salt the salt what's the IV what's the thing so you copy a little things in and it spits out the answer so you can use that to really just walk through a password database you know block by block and decrypt individual things so you start off the key set which they need to cook the first private keeper said you can become involved which any cook tonight so you can prove to yourself that this is all actually working the way that you think and then because doing this on your own password data it's probably not a bad idea I was actually then as I was putting

together this talk I said you know I really need just test me so I've actually got a whole script there that generates all the different data structures for you to create some test data to prove yourself as you're building and work and then when you're confident that works then you can try

it's a lot of data I know there's one password support hibiki is a significant they don't yet and I know there's been discussion about it on the forums and they have answers good and bad I think there's an argument to be made that it yeah that things like that might be too and this is me speaking the things like that might be a little bit too tied to specific vendor specific niche technology it's great idea I mean and they're already doing that by supporting a touch ID on the max but that's a lot less than

push push from NIST to standardize the use of the use of YouTube you can access that standard yeah yeah you bikini I did some digging a while ago for another talking to how different web authentication systems work and I love the hold you to uh a framework in interaction with with Yubikey but it was not very well supported the browsers I don't think said party still supports it or I think Safari still does not support it there's like negatives in that sentence but it's a great idea and if we can't get more yes so I don't use great technology is there anything that they're doing around the simple reset password using the communal stuff because you know that that's kind of

cities and a big forcing mfa or anything that is out of the ordinary with when someone is hacking an email you know eventually they can kind of start everything from scratch yeah so the question seems like a couple of parts part of it is addressing the question of password resets just pain the neck and I don't know that details but I know that there's some efforts underway not by agile but just in general the community that there are some efforts underway to standardize possibly even at the API level a way to change your password and the idea there being that eventually password managers could say hey your password than breach type in here and boom boom boom you

changed and one patch will reach out to the surface and change it for you I know that that's being worked in general any progress and then enforcing an MFA you know all that's coming down to policy to the individual services but again with that Watchtower feature where it's saying you know this site was breached more recently than your password was last change of this past it's been we they actually have a feature they were going to say hey this service supports a methane and you don't have enable you might want to consider that so we kind of do have features never came out prodding that way