Xavier Ashe - Mind the Gap: Unlocking the Power of Neurodiversity in Information Security

I am on Mastadon uh so if you have not uh made the move into the affetti verse yet a quick uh slide there is that basically it's it's a Federated social media uh platform that is uh the mcadon is is kind of like Twitter there's copies of all the other major ones and if you're stick and tired of uh big social media telling you what you can and cannot do come on over to Mastadon all right neurodiversity here's what here we're talking about so let's talk about what is neurodiversity neurodiversity as a concept is this idea that we don't have disorders and syndromes we have a range of capabilities and those ranges uh are being discovered as we learn more about

how we work so that's what neurodiversity means it's the whole concept of everybody here in this room thinks a little bit differently right now we we uh with with modern Healthcare we like to put on it but that's what neurodiversity is as a concept now as a movement which kind of started around the 9s is the the idea that we need to adjust our world for everyone empathy understanding making sure that we understand that we that people are not broken that need to be fixed the world needs to be fixed and so that is the movement of neurodiversity versus the concept of neurodiversity um so let's kind of dive into some of these syndromes and and disorders right so

we've got ADHD typically the most uh prevalent of the neurodiversity but uh the autism crowd comes in uh nice and loud love my autistic uh brothers and sisters uh I've got two of them as as myself and and uh I'm on I myself have got ADHD and dyslexia other things are uh like um Tourette's my son here has Tourette's it's a both a neurological disorder that keeps his his legs and arms moving also he's got some you know verbal ticks and whatnot but he is uh the the as I've learned more about Tourette and have his kid he is fully on the on in the neurodiverse world neurod Divergent and we see the world very

similar even though I've got ADHD and he has tetts so you as you as we go in you'll see the the the how these intertwine you got some statistics here um and showing you how different uh how much prevalent if you kind of add all these up obviously the VIN diagram overlaps quite a bit uh core mob core Mobil when you have multiple diagnoses uh coob mobidity there we go uh is is is prevalent um you know typically you have multiple uh disorders or syndromes but if you add all these up you're looking at probably around 15 20 maybe 25% of the uh of the world and so what does that mean when it comes to trying

to map this stuff out and we use the word words neuro Divergence neuro uh typical neuroatypical neurodiversity uh I liked this diagram it's kind of uh helps us you know use these words in very specific meanings so um for most people neurodiversity is everyone all right and then neurodivergent are not normal compared to everyone else that's that's the typical language and I'm I'm using the typical language that might be offensive to some that uh and uh but but just want to make sure that my point is clear that uh the uh typical neurotypical is a uh group of folks that do you know that we basically have helped set the rules on how Society works and uh and then we've got you know

the autistic folks that have been around forever if anybody thinks that ADHD and autistic is is new you should do some more studying I mean go and look at uh any train museum and you'll find uh the autistics have been uh you know helping us uh learn very detailed information about all sorts of stuff forever and and so that is definitely a huge component of it but neurod Divergent includes more than just the autistics and we uh uh are going to look through that and explore and what does that mean in our space so if you if you are new to neuro Divergence let's talk about some of the differences in and how we perceive the

world come on there we go let's get this sucker moving all right so uh and I'm going know I'm right in front of the screen but uh so take a look at this image and ask yourself is the column rotating or are the light or the dots moving from one side to the other and don't don't worry if they switch back and forth often our brain perceives both and what we're trying to do is settle on what the meaning of this picture is now the the difference between the two translations of the dot to the column illustrates depends on how you interpret the layers if you see separate moving sheets you're focusing on one shade and

then the other and picking them out in distinct detail a very detailed oriented view but when the brain zooms out and sees the bigger picture you might perceive this as a rotating column this type this is uh from a study uh this is you know good good old fashioned science right um and uh and this is one one of the ways that we can actually measure neuro Divergence this isn't a concept that is without uh uh you know hard sence we have uh ways of of uh measuring different types of perceptions and those ways are improving here's another example this uh we're going to go through this this is a concept called uh sensory gating and let's see if I'm going to see

if I can get that started for you and just try to follow along see if the the audio is going to work all right so so today I'm going to talk about four things these are the four thingses to we for me it's kind of because the thing third memory the four thing is that's going to change I did a lot of Cal a che cereal magic and that made it really great because that way I could eat Cs and know what I mean was that tough so if you want to look this up it's called the uh cocktail party effect and it's one of the more uh blatant obvious examples of uh sensory gating sensory gating is a good example

of how uh neuro Divergent folks have problems in uh you know Discerning what is usable data and what isn't neurotypicals or neurod Divergence and autistics in particular uh you know tend to take in a more pure version of our world they will hear and see the the various different things that neurotypicals will filter out and while you're at a party and you can listen to one person talking a neurotypical person might not have that same uh uh might have challenges being able to discern because of the different uh different audio streams going on again another way of of being between audio and visual ways that we can measure and uh kind of know whether or not you fit in this

neurode Divergent World Brady please where's my icon I don't have there we go all right so that's the right slide all right good so I wanted to call out you know is is obviously we have some challenges but you know there are some really good reasons why uh you know you uh if you are Autistic or if you as a leader would like to hire an autistic and these are a few of the superpowers it's really interesting that uh for me I've I've raised uh two autistic uh boys and have worked with several uh my father was in mental health uh and uh so this has been a part of my life in different roles parent uh friend teacher

son and uh seeing the differences uh uh firsthand is is is quite stri striking and if you don't have the type of Life of experience that allows you to interact with these folks let me highlight some of the kind of bonuses that you get by being an autistic so visual hypers sensitivity is you know a better visual pattern recognition now that kind of goes counteraction to the uh the the uh sensory gating but the skills that autistics learn to uh be able to survive in this world to do that pack pattern recognition isn't a a second nature and so therefore it can be a much stronger muscle because they have to exercise it tunnel vision focus of

attention color intensity and we'll get on to sensory situations later I have completely lost my there it is an icon all right uh synthesis ah I cannot pronounce this morning there we go thank you all right so I I like this one because I had some good statistics uh 18 to 19 18.9% of autistic people compared to 7.2% in the control group and this is where the perceiving multiple senses simultaneously so being able to actually listen see smell touch the uh the ability to do that is actually stronger in autistics than in neurotypicals and I can go on I also like showing off the ADHD superpowers because you know that's this is my bucket right this is probably you know

this is a lot more prevalent in in in uh in in nature and is more prevalent in the technology industry we we tend to thrive in the type of environment that ADHD uh you know unlocks in our brains uh so so some of this hyperfocus uh this is the the great frustration of my of my parents and psychologists Me growing up that I couldn't pay attention anything unless I wanted to and then I didn't pay attention to anything else this type of hyper focus is uh is is something that can be you know a very huge Boon people like programmers uh that need to focus on something and execute it for long periods of time uh

creative people that need to to to you focus on their world and uh and and the world that they're creating other superpowers to call out is uh the uh ID of boox thinking uh multitasking I always feel like I I'm not doing anything if I'm only doing one thing at a time occasionally I'll be on you know sitting in my office or at my home office and no phone call nothing to do but just like I've got to do this report and I'm just like I I can't do that right some people go to TV radio I'm on conference calls all the time so there's usually somebody talking in my ear so multitasking is the nor normal uh

mode for most uh folks that are are neurod diers resilience open to feedback the the research on the um open to feedback and thick skin was pretty interesting because uh it's one of these things where uh you are until you're not uh so you know so a lot of these will be on the extremes right where you having the power to really you know thrive on that particular aspect until the situation isn't right and then that becomes your weakness happens quite often all right so if we're all perfect then then then what's the problem why aren't you know we all hiring and and saying I need more ADHD people I need more autistics well we do have some

challenges so we're going to go through this video and I will uh give a warning here this video simulates what sensory overload is like for an autistic person this may be disturbing for anybody that has visual uh or any type of sensory issues and so just giving that fair warning this may be hard to listen to and watch for some people and I hope to be able to maximize I see if I can figure out where my little get [Music] over let's see here maybe just wait there one minute I'm just going to get a ticket okay

I one

minute calm down I have to finish this okay 1 minute

Cal down

[Music]

okay Alex just breathe that's it just keep breathing calming down okay okay see everything's fine now yeah right let's go home

I'm not naughty I'm autistic and I just get too much

information this is a world that is challenging for a lot of us and that are neuro neurodiverse and let see if I can figure out how to go forward there we go so um so yes we have lots of challenges this world has lots of sensory inputs and that can overwhelm a lot of us some of us are sensory seeking we do better when we have more sensory input some of us are seek sensory avoiding and we need the quiet and we need uh to not have all those uh uh sensory attacks on all the different levels and so finding those uh is is part of growing up and is something that uh each neurod Divergent person

typically finds by the time they hit working age so this isn't a parenting class this is we're talking about uh neuro diversity in the workforce so you're probably going to be you know either in the workforce yourself or supporting people that are work of working age and uh and so what does that translate to when it comes to uh you know how this uh sensory processing disorder and the other challenges listed up here is is present in the workplace and it's the realization that you've got people in your team friends and colleagues that may have these sensory challenges and these the education is part of this journey in being able to accept and bring more near

our Divergent people into our fault we need to be able to understand these type of situations and when we hear that somebody's having a uh a crisis a sensory processing you know crisis or or some type of of uh situation in which they need to exit it empathy is the word of the day right is that we need to understand that people have are coming from different places and it's not that we're broken is that man these lights are loud or man that you know women with their pointy shoes and knocking and and just I can hear it for for hours and it just it reminds me of this thing that was uh you know happened to me as a kid

and and really just brings in all these smells because it was at it was at the ocean and it was very powerful and now I'm no longer in the meeting so why would you hire somebody that has so many problems right 35% of 18-year-olds with autism only 35% of 18-y olds with autism attend college and of those only 15% that graduate as a result nearly 80% of young adults with autism work part-time earning an average of $9.11 I know that our neuro Divergent folks are much more capable and they're going to be much happier producing and being a part of your Workforce so how can we make that happen why would you want to make it

happen so this is the results of the research I was able to do there's a number of programs that got launched uh over the last 10 15 20 years or so and we're starting to see some results Harvard Business Review came up with uh a preliminary results of a program at sap uh that produced uh over 30% more productivity over a long period of time and even happier than that is over JP Morgan and Chase who's had a program going on longer they're able to see over 5year period much more productivity from the neurod Divergent folks this it seems like an easy win right we these people are dedicated they're hardworking they're very intelligent can think of in ways that we

Pro we can't even conceive and why would we not want to have them on our team uh I love this little the headline here with there's a company called Ultra testing is uh uh they they went uh full you know whole hog and and decided that they are going to staff uh full of autistics and it's uh it's been a great win for them uh and then we've got a neurodiversity uh in the workplace is a program it's one of the staffing agencies we'll talk about in a minute uh they are seeing uh 94% retention rates so that when they place neurod folks into jobs they're happy all right so let's get to the meat

of this attracting neurodiverse Talent now this is a an approach by let's see I'm go my yeah deoe this is the deoe study so in this Deo uh study is is basically breaks down the ways that we can make our workfor our our uh employment a Equitable and and in inviting place for new Divergence and so this is a plan that you can either if you are a leader you can help uh instill or if you are an individual contributor being able to uh to bring this forward you don't have to be the boss to make your uh the world that you live in a better place right you can implement this even if you do not control

everything at your job and you might just make somebody's life a little bit easier so first off revisiting the hiring process uh the uh the first bolt there I think is the yeah yeah casting a wider net so if we think about where do we recruit most of uh most places I work for a big company uh we recruit from large uh uh universities we have big programs because we hire lots of people but the that is where you know only 15 18% of autistics are going to schools and so finding schools that are more uh welcoming and more uh give give more to our neurod Divergent folks is something that you have to do intentionally you

have to go out there and find those programs and it may not be College Programs right uh College uh high school a lot of these folks have the skills and uh to be able to uh hit the workforce right out of high school so looking at high schools that uh to to that cater and teach to our neuro Divergence folks is a good start next is rethinking screening criteria I think we're all in the same boat here I I don't know too many people in the the security space space that aren't sick and tired of the uh you need 25 years of experience for this entry-level job right that's a common Trope uh so it affects us in in security

uh but you know other people are surprised to see this type of stuff uh all the time the types of things that we filter on to keep bad you know unqualified applicants out of our pool are uh is is things that you know HR has been doing for a while is is also filtering out our neurode Divergent folks and so to having that with HR figuring out what are they looking at are they insisting that they have a degree can you get a degree or work experience because it's not so much you know what have you done like I've got a 30-year career that doesn't mean I can go and do everything right away right

the point is is to find that the the criteria that says can you do the things we need you to do now reimagine the interview process so the uh process of of you know putting on a suit going down to a big building waiting in a in a Lobby to be called and then going into a room full of you know uh people that know what they're doing and they're all going to grill you for the next hour is intimidating to to neurotypicals it is even more so to a lot of us neurod Divergent folks that can do not understand that level of scrutiny and can uh have problems with that type of interview so think about

that as you're going into it think about the interviews that you're having and how you're filtering out people just by the way that you interview folks all right next up is to create a conduct uh a conductive work environment that we again so respecting people's individuals and communication work Styles this is uh being able to understand that not everybody is going to be able to produce a uh uh you know 10 slide deck every Friday as part of their status report right not everybody's going to have those capabilities now I was joking when I put the slide deck together that I was going to do this entire deck without saying AI I'm going to I'm going to break my

own rule here because to me AI is a very exciting and in particular gen AI uh the llms is a very exciting technology in the realm of neurodiversity and work the ability to speak and uh and communicate in text and other type of formats many people look at that as your skill set right I'm up here talking to you you're judging me on how well I'm talking and uh that's just it's my communication it's not about my skills or my knowledge it's about my ability to communicate so so often are we judging on that skill alone and not the content of the work so if their job is to write code don't make you know and and they can't write a

paper about it then don't make them write a paper about it but now this is when I get to say hey we got AI now ai can help us write that paper help us write those emails help us write those reports summarize the data we just did hey I just wrote a thousand lines of code it does all this great stuff but I just can't put it in ways that my uh ceso really you know pays attention to AI llms is is going to be that that technology that helps level the playing field on the on the on the level of communication so there's your your positive AI everybody else will scare you and tell you that AI is going to

make the world burn but I'm telling you that it'll it'll definitely help out us neuro Divergent folks in fact I used it quite a bit in in in preparing this this deck now one thing to do know about llms if if you haven't heard this over and over you just can't trust them right so I go and ask questions of Gemini and all the different llms and I'm saying hey give me some different ideas to put on this this deck but I have to go and confirm those because you know it's just a mathematical formula putting words together and sometimes it does a better job than I do and sometimes it just make up and you don't want to get up

here and and just you know say hey 80% of people have 80 HD so that's not really the truth so so whatever you do with llm until we get to a point where we could trust it don't all right back to our regular schedule programming so uh offer work uh the um the lovely one here uh uh uh flexibility and inflexibility um work schedules and and work environment is very important we'll go into that in the next slide um but uh just just the concept of of knowing that some people thrive off of uh random work situations I used to be a consultant every day I'd get up and go to the airport and go to a different city and

that I I thrived in and that's because I've got that ADHD flavor that's the type of of environment I thrive in uh other people need to go to the same place same desk same lighting same fire truck that goes by every day and uh and and that is part of their routine so you need to be able to find and support those if you want that talent in your Workforce you'll need to be able to support that not too many people in info security is really down on working from home is anybody um I I like you know I like both but it's it's definitely something we have to to to take into account all right so now that we've got

people in we've got a pretty good environment for them how do we make sure that they stay we have to talk to them we have to measure them differently right we have to understand that the level of work that they do may be that the level that the work that they're going to do for the next 30 years that's fine that they're happy they you talk to them about their goals and where they want to go I I uh one of the teams that I manage right now in my day job is a firewall uh policy management team as I work for a big company I have about 20 people all they do is firewall policy

and some of them they've been doing that for like 20 or 30 years and they love it so find those folk and and and if if that's what they want to do don't say hey you've got to go you've been working here for 10 15 20 years have you thought about management I'm sure you I'm hearing some laughing so you probably have had that conversation right you need to get into management there's nowhere else for you to go you're already a senior engineer you already run everything every you've written half of the shell scripts in this company now we need you to be a manager and you're like I don't think so so we need to make sure that we have a a

path for folks that do not have any interest in uh in in the standard neurotypical path we need to be able to give them the feedback that they need in the in the manner that they need it uh mentorship friendship uh that that kinship being able to understand that not only do I hear that I'm doing a good job but I'm hearing that from somebody that truly understands what a good job means to me and so take that back and think about that if you're a manager and you give feedback you give one of ones um do you think about that do you do you tailor your approach for the indiv idual and make them and make them

feel what you're trying to communicate right if you are happy with their work and you are pleased that you are part they are part of your team make sure that they feel that a quick time check 9:30 okay all right and then uh like I said this is deo to this has got a uh a an actual great PDF if you want to take this to work uh very actionable stuff another actionable uh um uh research project I found this is from research of bath yeah there we go uh yeah University of bath over the United Kingdom so steps sensory timely explicit predictable social good way of remembering so this is a uh a work uh workbook that you

could use at work to kind of go through these uh and and and compare yourself right we all love love doing all right who hears in GRC all right so he's got the spreadsheet he's going to be filling it out for everyone right audit us so this another spreadsheet another another another uh framework for you to compare yourself to right it's not a nist but it's still uh very useful so you take it looking at the sensory environment so we talked about that what areas do you have where people that are sensory seeking can do their work what areas in your office do you have that are sensory avoiding can they do their work if you start there you'll open your

eyes just realize that you know having a mix of opportunities of places to work is key most of us that uh you know in the neurod Divergent field don't like the open Office typically that is too much sensory information for us to be effective so understanding that if you can't prod if you can't provide hey I'm a company and I bought this space to put my office in and I'm not going to be putting up any walls if you've got no virent folks you're going to need to have them work from home or you know find another type of of situation to make them happy I often come in uh working a uh uh Fusion Center sock and uh I love coming

in second shift because if uh we wait till the uh all the the executives leave everybody turns off the lights and we just have our little desk lamps and and uh get by in that low sensory area timely environment all right have you G have you been given do you give that person enough time to do their tasks right sometimes it takes uh you know a little bit longer to get things done but you end up getting them done and uh and their higher quality so making sure that you understand what takes one person you know a day to do or a couple hours might take a neurotypical longer but they're going to do it better

and then probably uh in a much more sustainable way there go explicit environment I I uh I get a lot of feedback from my the people I manage at work and they tell me that I communicate in a very different way and I said well I've got eight kids and they're all on the you know neurod Divergent and so making sure that I'm clear is very important to my survival there's more of them than there are of me and so uh so making sure that they you know I'm very explicit right there's no wiggle room right and like I have to tell my tell my kids all the time I'm asking you to do this is what's coming

out of my mouth but what I mean is you have to do it you have to talk that way to some of our uh co-workers right we have to make sure that we're clear if you are you assume everybody knows what you mean by think out of the box you're wrong so uh look at your language and make sure that you're explicit uh with your neurod neurode Divergent folks predictable environment uh this is this is also key I've already touched on that and then finally the uh social environment so socialness is a an aspect of the environment that must be measured and you need to kind of be intentful do you intend your your folks

to to to mle around and talk if uh if you've ever uh you know worked in in a uh on on the vendor side and and you've got both a sales team and the technical team go check out their offices you know between the programmers in the sales team right very different social environment so you need to be intentional about that and and understand what is going to make people feel welcome and comfortable right the the programmers like to turn off their uh turn off their lights put the headphones on do their job go home for the day and that might be good enough the fact that they're not hanging around the water cooler and talking and you

know talking about the sports ball thing that happened this weekend right they they don't care or they might not care and and that might be okay so let's not measure them and make sure that that's not a part of their expectations of work that they be like us all right so I've got uh as I wrap things up here I wanted to give everybody some uh some uh uh references and and some places to go for uh being able to to take and take next steps because I really think this is very important as I've done this study I've realized that a lot of work has been done over the last 20 30 years um I

myself of Gen X uh and uh I was reading a study that talked a lot about how Gen X paved the way for neuro neurodiversity but millennial are making it real that the uh Millennials and the new generations that's coming in are the ones that are really going to help us realize this so well all of us old folks that may be you know help us set up what neurodiversity looks for us in our family right or in our company right now right the E who is going to execute that is going to be the next generation and they understand and conceptualize the diversity in in in a much better way and so working with the the different

Generations and getting their input and making sure that they you understand that they probably that the younger folks might get this stuff easier than you do is an important learning concept even though I've you know raised all these kids I'm I'm not an expert I still screw things up right and uh and and I learn and I listen if you if if any of you ever do any other Dei Dei work the the diversity inclusion and uh um and Equity it you you hear this often you've got a listen right I'm white Cy male well I'm neurod Divergent otherwise I'm just boring right I'm I'm the the the the and and so when I go to Dei meetings and I'm

listening right I don't know what it's like to to grow up black or Asian in the South I have an idea I was next to them as I was growing up but my world experience is different than somebody else's world experience so we get this when we're talking about race and we talk about background but somehow a lot of people seem to forget it when we think when we talk about neurodiversity and they think that this is just uh you know some type of Ploy uh and and uh and and and you know it gets politicized so what we got to do is make sure that we understand and we listen and take the word take empathy down as as the word to

to to if you take anything away from this hopefully it'll be the word empathy so a couple programs here neurodiversity Hub a great uh place to get those programs uh started uh for me like I as I was putting together this program I've been wanting to do this talk for a while and uh I am so excited about all the resources available and I am so absolutely going as soon as I get back to work I'm going to the head of HR and I'm going asked to start my own neurodiversity company uh a neurod Diversity Program at my company right we've got great di like we have a we have a disability what's called business

resource Group right in internally and so I'm sure that that that's where I will be shuffled over but that you know having a program and being able to say you know we're taking specific steps to to move forward is is so exciting and if you'll look at some of these resources they make it so easy for you they give you the the material they give you the reasons why and uh hopefully that will make uh things stick in your workplace so let's say that you're not a leader you are neurod Divergent and you're trying to make it in this world all right just know that you know information security is a great place to be you're you probably have already felt

that you know uh neuro Divergence I I'm not gay but I know that the gar thing exists I also think that the neurod Divergent Dar oh we got to come up with a better word but seriously are you ever sitting around and you're like hey I'm part of my people right my son here just about two years ago said hey Dad I'd like to start doing coin collecting I'm like all right let's go find some coin collect he's a coin collector now man you get in here all these old people people actually all generations from his age all the way up everybody's on the Spectrum it's just great you know they're like these are my

people right you've got really I mean these these these these are my people and and so that that instance of like not I found my tribe if you haven't found your tribe yet you're here you're like I like the people I'm hanging out with I want to be more of this right here are some resources for you these uh some of them are pure job boards right they just they go out to companies and say hey companies come place your jobs with me if you are uh having a neur diverence program and you're specifically looking for people with Autism or some other uh type of situation then uh then then they have those others are resources and I've got

over here support groups uh I am from Georgia but this is the link for the Tennessee every state has a state vocational rehab and uh if you are in your early actually any part of your your career and you have challenges with the mental disabilities on the Spectrum physical this is the place to go that will help you navigate all the different resources in your state to kind of help you get a job so uh very bureaucratic heavy but worth going through if you haven't gone through if you need some help getting getting some uh traction uh and then these others here are other different programs and uh groups that uh have either local local meetings and

meetups to uh to help people uh just just survive the world and uh and be happy so uh I I really hope that uh everybody had a a good time this morning uh thank you all for you know 8 9:00 a.m. first first you know you walked all the way down here I'm just just so happy to have you all here um and uh and that you take away from this that uh you know if you are neuro uh Divergent you're not alone uh and if you're not if if you don't realize how much the neurod Divergence is prevalent in our space you need to open your eyes and if you have not started uh adjusting your environment

and your Workforce to make life better for us neurod Divergence you need to do so quickly because this is the way that we are going to help make sure that uh you know we can find the talent to take us into the next uh generation so I appreciate everybody's time this morning thank you okay so um here I'll uh take questions actually um uh let me just open it up by asking um you you talked about what we can do in an office setting for folks that have sort of sensory overload issues but you also mentioned that some folks can be sort of sensory seeking are there things that we can do other than let people work from

home but in office settings that can facilitate sensory seeking folks it's a good question um you know it's it's one of these where uh figuring out how that sensory seeking person can get that and be flexible uh standing work standing uh desks the walking desks being able to for me I put my headphones on I walk around I need to be K kinesthetic to to trigger my brain you know finding those uh those things uh in in in school we used to uh you have an IEP and we would make the teacher say hey this you know uh my son's got tourettes he needs to get up and walk around he can't sit still we carry that forward to work

right when he goes to get a job he's going to need to be able to have that accommodation and so uh so just have have you know put yourself in that thoughts if this was back in the school setting we would be making our teachers do it why can't we do this in in the in the work setting as well so um if anybody has any questions raise your hand what we're going to do is you'll shout them out and then to make sure it gets on the recording I will repeat the question before you answer all right um so and and and um absolutely open to feedback right this is my first time giving this talk I came

across a lot of new information that I only learned in like the last week or two I probably don't know at all if there's other resources that you'd like to add I'm going to be giving this at other bides I'd love to have your feedback if I got something wrong let me know you say the feedback on skedge uh on on the the the website or today on on the phone or on the uh microphone if you like you talked a lot about this on the employer side but some good ways to basically present yourself to a better cidate yeah so the question sorry I just want to make sure we get this on the recording the

question is what are ways that you can present yourself to be a better job candidate yeah that's a tough one I there's a lot of content in this and figuring out what to skip over and you fit into a reasonable amount of time uh but one of the topics I looked into was was was talking about it at work right do you say hey I've I've got autism I'm an autistic I have ahd I've got tours I've got learning disorder I've got dyslexia sometimes yes sometimes no it's going to be the the culture of the company right uh large corporations tend to have a lot more protections in place while smaller uh smaller companies it's

more of a role of the dice you're you're going to be uh beholden of of fewer number of people that might have different um you know prejudices and so it's it's you're going to have to do that research to see hey is this the company that is going to understand and appreciate my gifts or is this some company that's going to hear that they're you know they going to hire a crazy person you know or using words like mentally things that that you know will just is it's triggering it's not a good place so I always say this as as general work advice anyway interview the company as much as they're interviewing you right you've got to

find a place that you're going to be happy that's the only way that that you know that's that's what we're here to do is just to to be happy in this life and so if you're if you can't be happy in that world that includes being you know can you be yourself or do you need to hide yourself that that's got to be part of the equation I think one of the questions to around this is like identifyed if one isur Spectrum whatever you want to call it and also identify employees that are under that I don't think a lot of people are probably you're saying oh I think you're autistic you know like specifically like that's a challenge

right because people obviously fall the spectrums but do youum embra so the question is about you know identifying folks versus sort of singling yourself out but also identifying folks that we would like to include with some of these things no a great point and it kind hits on that topic too like do you use the word Autistic or do use the word neurot neurod Divergent right these might be less offensive words to some people right there's also a an interesting divide of people that like to say people with Autism versus autistic and that's been a generational thing the the autistics that are growing up now are all embracing uh what's called you know people first uh language to say I'm

autistic I'm not a person with autism that you you might not see hear the difference in that but autistics do and and and some people care really strongly one way or the other and so while I try to you know go with the trends hey you know the kids these days if this is if we're going to say hey you're autistic as opposed to you're a person with autism then that's the language you know I'm going to learn to use um but yes calling people out and and asking people how do you start that conversation um and uh I I you it's going to be very different but I've had different experiences where you meet somebody yeah

you kind of know hey these are this this person seems like they're on my wavelength I think they might be neurod Divergent and being able to drop in uh things like the word sensory the word sensory is not used by non the neurotypicals right if you talk about you know my I I've I've got this as a a fidget in Sayad of say you know instead of saying I've got a fidget spinner right I I I use this to stem this helps me relax being able to kind of show open the kimono a little bit and say hey I'm I'm one of you as well then you can you know open that and then be able to have

those conversations um with uh in in the workplace you know being able to uh ask about specific uh you know medical situations is challenging right there are laws in place I'm not going to say I'm HR and tell you what you can and can't say but that might also be a challenge there so again asking if they have sensory challenges or uh have you you know or or or at least just telling a story about how you yourself have had sensory challenges and seeing how they respond might be a better way of opening that door to let them admit to something instead of you trying to guess what they are right just say hey I'm one of you we

could talk about this stuff just like you would with anything else you know I I like geeky stuff too I used to lar do you know how geeky laring is Right everybody's like oh D and D that's that's geeky I'm like yeah but I went out and you know hit people with sticks and and pretended that I was an elf for all week long I that's even geek so you you just don't want to admit that in certain company same thing it goes with the ne typical stuff okay so I think we got time for one more question if I could get you to come up actually it may be better for you to express yourself than for me to

attempt to repeat it if you as a manager what are some of the ways ways you been able to

teams so the question is about as a manager listing specific ways that he's been able to help folks on his team uh the the very specific one that that's been most recent for me is the fight to go back into the office right that uh my I work for a large bank and so the other large Banks want everybody into the office because they pay for all the stuff and they want you to go and and S it so uh being able to say that there are uh you know we have as as part of the Ada we have to accommodate people with disabilities and I truly believe that working from home is a required uh

thing for some neurod Divergent folks so that has been you know some of the battle some of the other stuff may seem like uh some some uh you know lipstick on a pig or or you know just just uh glossing over typical stuff but we've got got kinesthetic things at work I I got a I bought a one of those little uh basketball things uh you know we got a big one of those big uh uh um um Tic Tac Toe we got a You Know video game system set up ping pong ball you know most people you know that could easily be put into a bucket of oh manager is just doing silly manager stuff but that the

reality is is that the the people that can use that as part of their the ability to get the kinesthetic needs or the sensory needs you know I'm meeting their needs well and so it's not just hey I want people to come back in the office so I'm going to buy uh a um you know a toy to play with it it's that you know some of us really need that to have our brains work in the right way okay so um I I see there are some more folks with questions I'm might have to ask you to approach Xavier after the fact because we need to take a quick break before our next talk uh let's

thank Xavier again real quick that was excellent [Applause]