F**k You, Fud by Jessica Barker and Freakyclown

so we are here to talk about Fudd family with nervous about this one this is my first month technical talk so this is this is facing another fear of mine um so without further introduction or with let's introduce ourselves because a lot of you probably don't know who the hell we are so I am FC or freaky clown if you look at my CV on my LinkedIn you'll see something like this co-founder of redacted firm head of pentesting head of social engineering head of physical assessments head of a cyber research for a massive defense firm that sort of thing it's a bit boring anyone can see that so we're gonna do some slightly funnier intros that hopefully will get

people in the mood to listen to us for an hour so Who am I really I am one of these not a criminal one a epical one which means I'm not one of these I'm not one of these not one of these I'm an old-school one of these and I've been doing it since I was a little kid at least I was until these guys did this you can laugh it's fine it seems that when you get a little bit into this industry people like to try and set you up with false wrist rests etc so all the charges were dropped eventually and I gave my freedom with no criminal record that meant I could go on to work for

these guys and these guys eventually these guys and these guys most of the time and most of my life I've gone to work dressed like this I'm not kidding on on Fridays we would dress casually but nowadays most the time I do go to work dressed like this and when I'm not doing this you'll find me doing loads of stuff like this which like loads of outreach loads of talking loads and media events just to get the word of cybersecurity out there to people and enthusiasm into getting into the industry but I'm not doing that you'll find me doing stuff like this I love doing stuff like this and I really love this as a hobby which comes in really

handy when these people do that just an aside don't try and get out handcuffs on the police do it because they really hate that and it'll get you in worse trouble anyway over suggest good morning everybody so I um look on my LinkedIn you'll see stuff like this and confounder of redacted firm being in cybersecurity for about eight years and I have a background more in sociology some more in the human stuff so I've worked as a consultant head of awareness and done some work on investigations and disputes but you don't want to hear that you want to hear a bit more about Who I am really so dr. Jessica Barca not this kind of doctor sadly not this kind of

doctor not yet there's time but of course this kind of doctor so I can't help when something like this happens because as you will appreciate my work is much more serious I work in cybersecurity but I'm not one of these I'm not one of these and I don't often go to work dressed like this as I've said my background easy in sociology so my work is very much on the human side of cybersecurity having worked a lot in consultancy roles people who aren't consultants will say what do you actually do what does a consultant mean on a day to day basis of course it means that I do stuff like write the word success on transparent walls it

means that I am really good at jigsaw puzzles and my core specialism is in high-fives and fist bumps I'm really good at the fist bumps so I get to do some lots of stuff like this so again lots of outreach lots of speaking stuff and quite a lot of media stuff so the media stuff generally involves going on the news and kind of translating a cyberattack what it means to the people at home so I'm usually on the news responding to an attack or a breach and therefore you may see me looking shocked you may see me looking disappointed you'll catch me looking angry and of course on a bad day you might see me

looking really sad as working in cybersecurity and I know everyone in the room will understand that it does make you shocked disappointed angry and sad on a fairly regular basis so I let off steam by doing stuff like this and stuff like this and making stuff like this which is an alarm clock and not a bomb and making stuff like this which is an excuse to use a hammer so this morning we are talking about something different we are talking about fun and how to leave third behind and we're talking what makes it a different tool for us I've talked a little bit professionally about fear in particular but we're also talking about it on earth or personal

level as well so it's quite a different talk for us hopefully you'll get some things from it but to begin with we thought of course what we need to do is clarify what is fudge this this gif made us laugh so much if you don't get the context I'm really sorry but we wondered if we would get past this slide because we just laugh at this deal so much so what is fudge third of course is fear and fear is an emotion it's an emotion that we sometimes in this industry try and elicit in other people as a way of getting them to listen to us as a way of getting traction with them research

though has shown that if you try to use fear to change someone else's behavior it only works if the behavior the outcome that you want is for them to do nothing so if you want to paralyze them then using fear is actually quite effective but if you want them to take an action then basically it's not going to work and so I'm gonna talk a bit more about that but we're going to talk about kind of fear and internally as well and although you may not be able to use fear to change someone else's behavior you can use fear to change and challenge your own behavior so we're going to touch on that in a bit

we've got fear we have of course also got uncertainty uncertainty is an interesting one uncertainty and has been shown to cause a lot of stress if you live in very uncertain times if you're dealing with very uncertain circumstances so probably the most sophisticated study on uncertainty into how we react was published a couple of years ago in 2016 and how these participants were playing a computer game and when they turned over a rock in that computer game sometimes there was a snake underneath the rock when there was a snake underneath the rock they would get an electric shock if they turned over the rock and there was no snake they wouldn't get shot and what the

researchers found is that when uncertainty was at its highest so when the participants worked out that there was a 50/50 chance of there being a snake underneath the rock they were the most stressed so they were sweating the most that peoples were the most dilated and they also self-reported stress as well so what this tells us is that when we use uncertainty when we talk in very uncertain terms with our users or with people at home then we are really stressing them out and when people are stressed they usually don't make the best decisions so we've got fear we've got uncertainty and of course most commonly when you talk about thud people are referring to doubt now when you

think about doubt it's actually very similar to uncertainty in fact if you look up the dictionary definitions then you'll see uncertainty features in the dictionary definition of doubt and doubt features in the dictionary definition of uncertainty so they're pretty much the same thing but we wanted to put a picture of Gwen Stefani in and make a pun so it was worth touching on and it's also interesting to think about what causes uncertainty in doubt and actually one thing that causes uncertainty in doubt is another D that is sometimes referred to in third and that is distance motion disinformation of course a very hot topic at the minute it's being discussed probably more than it has been

for quite a few years thanks to global politics and this information is interesting because of course it causes another D which is distrust and so it's interesting to think about how spreading this information and causes disrupt which is a challenge for us in the industry because we want people to trust us we want people to listen to us we want to influence people and if people distrust voices of authority or expertise then that's more challenging for us to get the message through finally there is one more D that people sometimes referred to when they say firt and that is discomfort and despite the picture I don't mean the kind of discomfort you might feel at the dentist

although probably that picture is quite relevant for a talk about fear and uncertainty and but I'm talking about discomfort that you cause in someone when you make them feel embarrassed or anxious and of course this is something that perhaps unwittingly we sometimes do as an industry we have a bit of a narrative of users are stupid people are the problem and this causes people to feel not particularly comfortable with us it causes them to feel embarrassed it causes them to not want to ask a question of IT not want to report incidents because they want to avoid looking like a fool so again when we think about discomfort is something that is very interesting and very applicable

to think about for our industry so that's kind of setting the context for what we're talking about on a personal and on a professional level in terms of the personal stuff what we are going to talk about for some of the talk is things that we have faced fear fears that we have faced on a personal level and we're going to talk about how we've overcome them and pull out maybe some messages that if you're in the room and you are going through a similar thing you might find interesting and then after we've done that we're gonna kind of take a step back and look at professional third and what it means to us on a sort of higher level as an

industry there's plenty of seats around that the or anything if you want to go in yeah if anyone do feel free there are loads and the front row like isn't full of spiders or snakes and things you can say so I'm saying we're gonna talk about his nor third and the most sort of applicable thing for me to talk about here is ironically for someone who is stood up and talking in in front of like a few hundred people is about speaking does anyone in the room have a fear or a dislike of speaking in public would you like to speak in public keep your hand up if you'd like to speak in public but

it makes you feel anxious or a bit scared don't be shy you're not you're not being recorded only I am right so quite a lot of people can probably relate to what I'm gonna talk about so

so this slide is about impostor syndrome which I think ties into a fear of speaking it's probably not the only cause for sure but I think impostor syndrome is one of the causes of a fear of speaking and I've done some stuff and I'm not going to talk about it now because I've been talking about it for the last couple of years but I've done some stuff around impostor syndrome and from kind of Twitter polls and stuff it seems like it's quite high in this industry and from conversations with people it's something that a lot of people in the industry wrestle with because we are in an industry where everyone is quite smart and so it's by

common to worry that we're not smartest person in the room or we're not as smart as ever might think we are and so when you get up to speak there is a worry that you are going to be exposing what you don't know that you might suddenly forget what you would plan to talk about that you might be asked a question that you can't answer so imposter syndrome I think ties into this so I used to be really scared of public speaking I was absolutely terrified if I think back to particularly kind of doing my undergraduate degree my master's degree if anything came up where I had to speak in front of say like 10 people I would

be terrified for months in advance I would wake up in the middle of the night thinking like how many oh no it's only a hundred days until I've got to do this seminar presentation and I would start to panic about it when the day arrived I would be incredibly nervous I wouldn't able to eat I would go bright red I would shake I remember one seminar in particular where there were about 12 people in the room and I had really prepared I got up to speak I had my notes and I spoke I said what I needed to say and then I got to the end and I realized that I had not looked up from

the sheet that the sheet was shaking and I had made a terrible mistake in that I had worn a red jumper and so I knew that I had basically just blended in with this red jumper so it was like mortifying I made a joke everybody laughed about the fact that I was now the same color as my jumper everybody laughed because they were so relieved because it was so awkward in the room so that's kind of the level of how scared I was about speaking so I did lots of stuff to try and get over this fear and I did more and more speaking stuff I was given the opportunity to do lecturing when I

was doing my PhD so even though I really was nervous about it I said yes I did it the more I did it the more I got over those nerves a little bit at the same time I took singing lessons I am a terrible singer I am never gonna be winning X Factor despite a couple of years of lessons but it really helped me get over my fear of speaking because as a terrible singer if I can get up and I can sing in front of a roomful of people which I've done a few times then I knew okay it's not worse than that if I'm just talking for me or for the people in the room so that

helped me a lot I then took a job in cybersecurity where I was delivering training and again this helped me start to get over it I got much more confident speaking in front of people I was then asked to speak at b-sides Manchester and it was suggested that I submit to Iris con Brian Holman suggested I submit to Iris con and go and speak in Ireland about my work and suddenly the nerves came back because it's one thing kind of doing lecturing it's one thing doing training it's another thing speaking in front of your peers and that for me added a whole new dimension probably tying in to the imposter syndrome stuff but I did it it wasn't terrible I was

very nervous and that probably showed but I just carried on I got a bit of a book for it I spoke more and more things I spoke at Steele Khan I kept submitting to call for papers and speaking and every time I did it I just got a bit better so this was about four or five years ago and now I am pretty confident speaker I actually really enjoy doing this and and to the extent that it's now something I do and I get paid to do last year I did I've lost track of how many non public talks but I know I did 34 public talks you can probably double it in terms of the non

public talks let alone the training stuff I did so I've got better at it I've got more confident I I'm doing a lot of it traveling around getting paid to do it and honestly I've gone from the most terrified most timid person to someone who is fine getting up and speaking to 300,000 people which is probably the biggest talk that I've done in total so what I've learned from doing that and some of the things that have helped me get better and if so if speaking is something that makes you nervous one of the key things for me to keep in mind is that the audience in general doesn't hate you like there might be one or two people in the room I

think one or two people in the room but in general they don't hate you they don't want you to fail people are actually quite nice so kind of think of your audience as a friend and for me when I get up and talk I try just think of it as a conversation and having a conversation with someone I mean it can be scary but it didn't terrify me on the same level of speaking in front of hundreds of people so really what's the difference if I can talk to one person I can talk to a thousand I can talk to ten thousand that's the big learning message for me also not to worry about failure I am for me the big

worry would be idea but my mind would go blank and the best thing about speaking a lot is that sometimes things do go wrong and you learn that it's not the end of the world so if anyone was at these sighs leads the year besides London the year before last and you saw my talk on cyber the word cyber you'll know I got to one slide and my mind went completely blank it was like the thing I'd always worried about what you gonna do you're gonna make the joke and you're gonna skip the slide and it's gonna be fine and people will remember but also people are forget and it doesn't mean anything really as long as you're

confident as long as you make a joke then what is the worst that can happen are you gonna die from your fear of speaking I mean you might get up on stage and die but if that happens it was gonna happen anyway it's probably not a factor of being up on stage so thinking about what's the worst that can happen you know you're still gonna be alive you're still gonna have your friends people are still gonna like you you're still gonna be there at the end of the day so what have you got to lose every time it does get easier it does get better after a couple of times you will get the bug and you'll want to keep on

doing it and the best place to start is with local meetups with rookie tracks with lightning talks so if you feel like you want to do this and the only thing that's stopping you is that you feel scared then take it from someone who's been there and just jump in at the deep end speaking of jumping in at the deep end I'm gonna hand over to FC right so I'm incredibly nervous about this because this is there's a fear I'm gonna face now which is talking about my personal life which I very very rarely do - Jess let alone two an audience so who here has a fear of swimming rate faint thanks to people

right so I have a fear of swimming or rather actually it's a fear of water I've had a fear of water since I was a little kid in fact up until very very recently to the point where a very full bath would actually make me very nervous and you're probably thinking how did this happen how did this guy get so scared of water and how is he now swimming yeah so first little origin story so where did this come from I think the only way you can get over a fear is to figure out where it came from yeah who here has a fear of something basically everywhere right this gonna hopefully help you so understand where

your fear came from is very very important because then you can focus on the fact these just an emotional response triggered by certain things around you so where did this where did my fear of water and swimming come from it came from my father my father was a great man he really really was he was great at drinking he was great at hitting me he was the sort of man that would put his cigarettes out on your arm in the morning and then by the evening he'd whip you with the metal end of his belt and so yay dad and he had a rowboat not a massive yacht but just her she's a little rowboat the sort of thing that

you take your kid out fishing for in my father's case he would take you out in and then chuck you over the side and then hold you under the water to try and get rid of you because he really didn't like you thankfully I'm a stubborn oh [ __ ] and I didn't die yay so he tried again thankfully by this point again I didn't die so I thought I was Highlander at this blog right however what they meant was I had an absolute fear of water I didn't go in a boat with him again ever and in fact very rarely would go near open water in fact if I went near a swimming pool I would be at least

feet away from the edge in case I fell over so how do you get past something like that for 40 years I never went near a pool there are certain key things that you need in order to get over a fear like this one of the most important things is finding a reason to do it now I'm not going to get all sloppy over this but Jesse's the reason for me doing this it needs to be something that you want more than the fear stop [ __ ] it's very very important and the second most important thing you need to get over fear of swimming water it's YouTube Ikey do not all right once I decided that I

wanted to learn how to swim get in the water I went to YouTube I watched about 400 videos on how to swim sat there in my living room figuring out what I needed to do we went to a local swimming pool I was in and after a few false starts I just literally jumped in and held my breath and tried swimming just how the video showed me right enthusiasm will always make up for a lack of skill and that's that's true of anything so nowadays a tantrum I think I have to try to find a really good shot of will not semi-naked yeah so this scary photo is the best you're going to get thankfully

so I care to him you know it took me a long time to get over it I'm not the best swimmer in the world you do get overconfident sometimes I did almost drown again in a pool because I thought hey I can swim I can be in this pool on my own right in the deep end no you can't because panic sets in because I still have a slight fear and it's this is something too little touch on bit later is that fear doesn't just stop it will come back and haunt you sometimes and it just will slowly get better takes a lot of time so my other fear that I have is flying this is

something very recent in fact and in fact it's not just flying its flights of other sorts as well lights of stairs in fact Heights I have a fear of heights through here has a fear of heights hopefully this will help you how many people here have never been on an aeroplane one person right up until six months ago I had never been on a plane ever so I'm gonna tell you how I now get on planes now first again the oranges story where did this fear come why I got fear of heights I was a little kid kids aren't tall I didn't fear being cool so again it came from my father the gift that

keeps on giving right and so where we grew up in our house we have a set of concrete stairs which was great yeah some hard-wearing and however my father thought that I wasn't quick enough as a kid or something so he decided to chuck me down the stairs with his foot a few seconds later I had several broken bones a massive six-inch fracture and my skull which you can still feel today and a fear of heights right so how do you get over something like that how do you like start to piece together your life and get over fear because at this point up until like six months ago I wouldn't go into a building

higher than three floors that's how bad my fear of heights was how do you get over this well it all started with a rendition flight almost almost a rendering plant see a friend of mine is a bit scary and decided that I needed to get over my fear of flying and so decided to book me a empty sea on a rendition flights of the states I decided that this is not going to work visit you can't have someone else tell you how to get over your fear you have to use it yourself to drive your own behaviors someone else can't do it for you so we argued a bit a bit about it and eventually what he did was he pour

me a piloting lesson right so the first plane I'm ever gonna step into in my life I am going to be flying I've never flown a plane either so that's a bit scary I'm sure jess was just as good as I thought and yes I do look nervous because I'm about to do something that is absolutely terrifying to me but after a couple of minutes of swearing constantly we got up to you know two and a half thousand feet and we flew around for a bit and we landed and that was cool it wasn't it didn't kill me surprisingly and so from that stage on I knew that I had to keep getting better you can't fly around the world in the

tiny little plane so you have to upgrade so I upgraded to commercial flight did a course with BA they just take off in a commercial plane and come back it was incredibly stressful because you were on a plane with 200 other people that absolutely petrified it it was worth it though we got onto a plane so this is this is a photo from a one of my very first commercial flights I think it was to Spain and if you can see I look happy I am NOT I am absolutely [ __ ] petrified in this photo but this is one of the other key things which is if you're scared of something behave how you want to behave behave you will be

led by how your body is reacting so if you're happy your body will start to react that you're happy also most people on the plane I think I think it's about 70% of people on a plane are absolutely scared in some degree of flying so make it easier on them as well if they see someone happy and reading a book or watching a movie it makes their lives easier as well so you're not only helping yourself you're helping everyone around you they just feel a bit karma and so now six months later I've been paid to fly to six different countries so in only six months I've managed to get over a lot of the fear of flying and

get around the world and do a lot of things I could never have done in fact just before we came here today one of our clients is paying for us to fly to Singapore to give a speech that's a 14 hour flight I'm actually quite nervous of that but I'm very happy that I'm gonna get to fly halfway around the world for free which I'd have never have done if I'd never got on a plane on the first flight so how do you get over something like this or in fact all fears you have to go back to what the root of the fear is why am I scared to get on a plane why am I scared

of heights why am I scared of getting in water it all comes down to death honestly right I'm scared of dying that's why I didn't want to get on a plane yeah that's stupid because everyone has to die and I can choose my time of death no more than anyone else so I might as well do the thing that is stopping me from getting around and having a really good life so why do we fear death anyone why do you why do you fear that you you want to you want to live longer yeah you don't want to die you want to live a bit longer so why do you want to live a bit longer it's

because you want to do things you like ah if I die now I'll never get to do the thing I'll never get to build a house or paint a picture or or do this cool talk or something like that it's a way about the thing you're going to do so the only way to get past your fear of death is to do the things on your list that you want to do stop holding back go out and do it and one of the things I say and I want you to take away from this is death is only feared by those have achieved nothing if you've achieved everything you want in your life if you have achieved the

things that make you happy you no longer fear death because you know that you have done everything that you can there's always more you want to do and that's what drives you every morning to get up and do those things but don't be scared go out do the thing that makes you happy and then you won't be so scared of doing these things so what helps to go for these days time it always takes time to get over these things and now I've said I've I've taken six months to get over the fear of light now it's taken me 40 years and six months the six months is the bit where I actually did the first step you need to

do the thing more than you fear it and that's really hard to do you have to kind of go okay the fear is stopping me but it's just an emotional response it's no different from from being in larval or being excited about Christmas or something like that it's just a chemical response in your head to a bag of chemicals that you're carrying around in your skin so just understand that that's holding you back again fake the confidence until you make it b.p be how you want to be seen in the thing that you're doing don't be shy about seeking professional help and I don't mean like psychiatry but unless you need it obviously but go on courses

those training courses for basically everything I go to talks I saw a brilliant talk by dr. Kreuger oz about plain hacking which was amazing and it really made me feel a lot safer about planes who knew so thanks to him and focus on the facts so do your research don't just like be driven by your emotional response go and look at the data everyone here is probably data driven I can guarantee it's a go and look at the data and go actually you know turbulence isn't bad it's uncomfortable but it's not dangerous so well crack on do it and so that's it from me for a while and so we're gonna move back onto professional budget it's

not for me it's not I'm sorry I'm sorry state a bit stay a bit longer and talk about InfoSec fun in fact sorry about um so this industry is driven by but if anyone's noticed it but is basically everywhere and it's been entwined with InfoSec since since a very long time in fact since 1975 when Jean um Dahl I don't know how to pronounce his last name from IBM he left out IBM and he coined the term Fudd when describing IBM sales techniques um and it's been around since the biggest one that I can think of is the y2k bug bug yeah it this came around just before 2000 obviously and it hit the headlines everywhere it

was going to be the end of the world it was a computer thing that was going to destroy us all you know planes were gonna fall out of the sky banks were gonna crash the world was dead dogs and cats living together you know mass mayhem right it didn't happen right there was some issues but we fixed them but the public never saw that and so to the public there was this massive buildup of stuff and then nothing happened and everyone was like [ __ ] was still here yes I need to go back into work so this happens a lot and the public see this and they go well why should we trust those in verse eight

people and he's been going on a downhill since then yeah even nowadays we see incredible fox claims in the media again plain hacking um yeah this guy didn't do this it was found out pretty quickly that he couldn't do this because it's impossible right from from how the plains work you can't do this and so again the publicly kind of like spooked into like oh my god place is gonna fall out this guy and then we let no oh okay what you say you did then yeah so one person can have a profound impact against the public and we use it a lot in this industry to sell our products we use Fudd all the time for example GDP

are everyone's heard of it now yeah scary you must be GD up here GDP are compliant soon by May I think it is now this year yeah otherwise your world is gonna end you're gonna get four or twenty million dollar fines ya know that's the maximum fine that they can give you not what they will probably give you yeah if you look at all of the fine systems in the world no one ever gives the maximum but we all sell GDP our compliance based on the fact that look at that you could get 20 million euros or yeah wait four percent of your your turnover no it's that's the maximum what will probably happen is

you'll get a slap on the wrist for the first one and then a couple of times later you might get some slightly bigger fines it depends who you are and what you are so it's not really as bad as people think and how the hell is it going to be enforced no one knows yeah whatever a company like some South American country breaks gdpr rules how do you are going to enforce that or really not because they're gone you can't force someone into a different country to come and give you money that's blackmail so GTR is not as bad as people think and we need to stop selling pub in order to get sales in the industry so now I'm

going to pass up territory obviously eating on from GDP our and we haven't just done it with GDP are we do it a lot where we try to scare people into having good security and this might be in the policies that we say often obviously I've done a lot of stuff in training so I've particularly noticed it in organisations training and sometimes a client will approach me to do some training and pretty much the first thing that they will say to me in terms of their requirement is they want me to scare people in to taking security seriously and the problem with trying to scare people to elicit a behavior is that basically it's a very blunt tool

and psychologically it doesn't really work as I said earlier when we want people to take action scaring them isn't going to really necessarily lead to the action that we want and so again I've talked about fear in some of the talks it's actually what I talked about ironically in the b-sides Manchester key know that I was quite scared of and it's it's really known as a fear appeal when you're trying to change people's behavior based on fear it's known as a fear appeal you're trying to appeal to their emotions and to get them to change what they do but using fear to try and change behavior has to be done in a very nuanced way and

we haven't really done that as an industry so then we just scare people with the threat when all of our training is very threat based what happens is that people switch off they either think well why would hackers want my data I'm too small or why we attack as one on our data how would they get it we're too big and they find an excuse to think that it doesn't apply to them and they bury their heads in the sand they think we're over blowing it so fear isn't something that really engages people of course we have to talk about the threat of course this industry involves talking about scary stuff but if we base all of our ways of

trying to change people purely on fear it doesn't work because what people respond to much more effectively is hope and optimism so psychologically it's been proven that most people have an optimism bias when it comes to their personal life so who here has a favorite day of the week right is your favorite day of the week and we'll assume as the end of the week so is it Friday whose people would say would say if they had to pick a favorite they would pick Friday no not many couple Thursday do we have Thursday's yep Saturday what about Sunday one two for Sunday three much less so most research into this suggests that people will tend to pick Friday really

didn't really with this group typical but most people will tend to pick Friday as their favorite day of the week compared to Sunday Friday will be much more popular so when people are at work they're happier thinking about the relaxing lovely Sunday they're going to have than they are on the Sunday actually enjoying the thing they were thinking about so we are all quite optimistic and we tend to look at our lives and think that things are gonna in the whole turn out okay and it's been proven that optimism is more powerful than facts so for example most people know that about half of marriages end in divorce ask someone on their wedding day watch

hands they think their marriage has of ending in divorce and they will say zero even if they know the statistics and likewise with diseases so ask someone what chance they think they have of getting cancer in their life and people will often say about 10% if you tell them that in fact they have a 30% chance as everyone does they will say yeah I still think it's about 10% maybe 11% just based on pure hope so no matter the facts no matter how much we can tell people the scary statistics about how likely they are to be hacked they are still gonna think yeah but that doesn't apply to me so I think this can be very

frustrating for those of us in the industry that are trying to communicate people we can be confronted with this naive optimism and we try and beat it down with pessimism and we try and keep telling people the facts to change their behavior and when it doesn't work we get very frustrated so what I suggest um the approach that I follow is actually trying to engage with that optimism and harness that optimism because optimism is good for people it makes you less stress less anxious if you're an optimistic person it's better for your health in general but also I think optimism can be really good for us as an industry and it's very basic it is

common sense but of course all of the research shows that if people believe something is possible they will try harder to achieve it so if your users if your family if your friends believe that they actually can have better security then of course they are going to engage with what you're suggesting to try and achieve it if they think that being hacked is inevitable and it's always going to happen then why would they bother engaging in security at all so the kind of training that we have where we kind of shout at people with the threat where we give people lists of what not to do is is not work and we've seen that over the last

couple of decades and as I said earlier we know that fear only motivates people if you want them to do nothing and you might think okay well I want people not to click on links but of course it doesn't really like that we really work like that with security we generally do want people to be proactive we want them to report stuff we want them to to come and tell us if they have a problem if they have a question and so if we scare them what we're doing is we're just scaring them into inaction and what we actually are doing when it comes to for example reporting is just encouraging them to hide their mistakes their issues

their problems so what I say is we need to better engage people and replace third we have fun so we nearing the end of our work and we just want to touch on some of the key lessons as to how to say [ __ ] you but firstly key message is you can't use fear to motivate people to change their behavior it will end up leading you down a path where nobody is happy you can harness your own fear to motivate a change in yourself and that's the kind of thing that FC was talking about was how to use fear how to think about what makes you feel uncomfortable I'm not talking about running out in

front of like running traffic and moving traffic or anything like that but things that you want to achieve in life but that make you feel a bit anxious a bit uncomfortable try and think about how you can harness that and actually get over it so it's basically about feeling the fear and doing it anyway so those people that would like to give a talk and are scared of getting up on stage doing the robot and we've got a couple of minutes and I want to give you the opportunity now you don't have to take it but for those people that would like to who would like to come up here on stage stand here have a look at the

audience see how batteries realize that you're not going to die and you'll get a sense of what it's like to stand up and give your first talk you don't have to say anything you can come up you can say hello my name is bar and then go sit down or you can just come up just to see what it's like so give us a yeah give us a fist bump so if any of those people that were nervous of speaking if you want to come up you can come on anyone want to hey great we are a hidden confidence today so if you like stand-up please you somewhere in this room there is a special voucher like you want to

have a look to see if it's under your chair please please test it so those who didn't look you are safe you are secure and I congratulate you sir on your own endeavour hands up who looked fantastic you guys are risk takers I congratulate you on your ability to take a risk and follow me that the deep end so as you can understand there isn't actually a free gift but I thank you anyway for your participation thank you

that was not planned that wasn't you haven't been on your feet yeah and take an erase if anyone else wants to come up if anyone else has a voucher they want to know or not about feel free feel free you don't have to if not thank you very much from Nestle I really hope you enjoy the rest of the conference we're going to be around for a little bit today and that is because there will be competition you can win one of these fantastic very exclusive redacted t-shirts no one else in the world has the true story so there is a QR in the program go to it see the questions do it we're going to announce the winner at 12

o'clock 12 13 12 in track 1 so it'll be open in about five minutes once I get online and quickly [Applause]