From Kerry Katona to Pen Testing: Transferable Skills in Cybersecurity

Thank you so much for having me today. Really appreciate it. Thank you to Pete, to Stu, to David, everybody who's made this event possible today. Thank you, and thank you for coming watching my little talk as well. I really appreciate it. Delighted to be here in Devon. What a gorgeous place it is. It's beautiful. We've got scone cathedrals, gorgeous countryside.

No pies. No pies. So yeah, looking forward to get back home and having a pie. Otherwise, it's perfect. So yeah, what else is Devon famous for? Starting going down a bit of a rabbit hole. Did you know, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, that Dr. Adam Bach, the inventor of the hashtag, the father of Bitcoin, did his computer science degree here at the university and got his PhD here? Well, neither did I. I found out in the pub last night, so I thought that was quite cool.

There's something else. It was a bit more grizzly, but this was quite interesting. The last women to be hung as witches in England was here, actually, on connection on St. Lucas camp. And that's in the late 1600s. So anyway, fascinating. Very varied. You've got your music as well. Chris Martin's from here. Yeah. And Muse down the road. They're really cool in Teignmouth. So yeah, great place.

And here is my weird obscure little talk from Kerry Katona to pen testing. And this is all about me, my favorite subject. Okay, so who doesn't love a Venn diagram? Am I right? So me and Kerry Katona, we're both children of the 80s. We both — thank you, thank you — were both in Icelands. We're both northern. Don't know if you can tell by the accent. Questionable career choices and paid for something slightly ridiculous. Kerry Katona, she's a reality TV veteran. New autobiography every 18 months. Atomic Kitten, famous just generally for being famous. Has a Wikipedia page.

And then there's me. Gets paid for cyber security, not life choices. Hasn't married a boy band member yet. Peak fame, 17 likes on LinkedIn, and crisis management doesn't involve OK Magazine. Now, just to prove I'm not some absolute freak of nature with an obsession with Kerry Katona, here is the connection. That's me, yay. That was an Iceland advert in the noughties. So this is all about my weird career into cyber security and transferable skills, coming back to what the lovely Harriet said before, and I was like, yay, that's in my talk too.

Okay, so whistle stop tour of my working life. So I went to university. I did English literature and history at Cardiff University, didn't know what to do, so obviously I went into teaching. And that wasn't for me. It is a hard gig, teaching. Any teachers in the room? No. It's really hard. You've got people trying to get out of the windows, you being sworn at, chairs being flung around, and that's just in this afternoon. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to try me hand at acting, darling. I'm going to be an actor.

And I probably did better than most wannabe actors and models and actresses. I had a speaking part in Cie. I was in Hollyoaks, Gemma. I was in a music video, Little Man Take European Lover. So that was that, then kids. So I stopped doing that and I got a job in the civil service — civil service, even put me teeth back in — whilst having a baby.

My husband owns a company, so I was working for his company, raising the kids, and this is something you touched on as well, Harriet, trying to juggle things. It's hard, and they're now 13 and 16. One's doing his GCSEs — that's just a whole other talk, that is — but anyway, I thought, you know what, they're a bit older, they can look after themselves. I want something for me, something that I can do. So all I literally did was Googled what are the most in demand jobs in the world, and cyber security popped up.

And at first I thought, I can't do cyber security. I don't know anything about computers. It's just not me at all. I'll come to the transferable skills in a minute. So I did a cyber security course at Capslock. After doing the Capslock I got a role at Capslock being a cyber security careers advisor, which kind of fitted in with my experience at the job centre plus, you know, trying to get people back to work, helping people from all different types of backgrounds, all walks of life, vulnerable people, and just being able to connect with people on all different levels and help them. So there were quite a lot of crossover.

Then I worked somewhere else as a junior analyst. Do you remember when the government advertised this and they got absolutely slated, like, Rishi, Fatima's already got a job, she's a ballet dancer, leave her alone? But actually I thought, oh god yeah, fat can do it so can I. So that worked on me, which brings me to where I am now.

So ladies and gentlemen, this is the best version of myself as a magical genie, and I work at that security company. Here are a few of my lovely colleagues. So what I'd say is the transferable skills, soft skills — I'd call them impact skills — because you can teach someone how to do the tech. And I'm not diminishing that and saying it's not important, not for a second. We need our engineers. But you need to be able to get on with people and be able to communicate.

In fact, when I was at Capslock, my colleague Rory, who I'm working again with now, he did some research and the top skill that was most wanted within cyber security was great communication skills. So yeah, I think the common thread in everything that I've done work-wise is customer service — always put the customer first, they're literally paying for you to do a job, so you just give your best self and try your best all the time.

Sense of humor, great communicator, problem solving — not just techy but human skills. Being able to speak to everybody, and I think treating everyone with the same grace. Whether you're talking to someone worth millions and millions or a student or whoever it is, you just treat people how you like to be treated yourself. It's that easy. And a willingness to learn. If you've got that curiosity and that drive and you're enthusiastic, that's probably one of the main things.

So in summary, transferable skills, impact skills matter. Cyber is an industry for everyone. It's such a gigantic industry. So whatever your skill set is, whatever your personal qualities are, whether you're an introvert, an extrovert, whether you're a techie or non-techie, whether you love people or hate people, it's just such a big industry. There's a place for you.

Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up. I just think that's a nice little motto for life in general. And be nice, because the world is a small town, and nowhere is smaller than cyber. If you're not, it'll come back to you — people will know about it. So that's it. Any questions?

What did you say? I'm not the only for loads of time. Okay, cool.

YAY. Thank you. I just ask you a question.

Yeah.

How do you find now working with techies? You know, are they the wild west for you, or you know, herding cats like children are?

Yeah. Yeah. The ones that I work with are generally they are lovely. And I've got what else am I going to say? Yeah. No, they are really nice people. And there's something that I was scared of coming into this industry because I'm not techy, and I hate it when a woman comes up to say I'm not techy, but I'm just — it's not my bag. I'm interested in people very much. So I love people, but I'm not interested in what that lad was on about before. Not got a clue. It was brilliant and I loved him, but I had no idea of the middle bits.

But I thought people are going to — like, on my first year caps course I sat there and I cried. I was like, "Everyone's going to think I'm really stupid." And I sat and I cried. But the more I've been working in this industry, probably a couple of years now, what I found is that it's not snobby. Nobody looks down the nose on you at all. It's quite a neurodivergent, which suits me right down to the ground. It's quite a geeky industry and it's very unjudgmental. So back to your original question on pen testers: they're not what I perceive. I thought they'd be condescending, and the ones I've worked with, they're not. They're nice. They're just normal people, and we've all got our different strengths and weaknesses. I think as long as people realize that, it's a good start.

So they're easier to work with than car?

Oh, the camera's still on.

I'll talk about that to you later, but hell yes. Harriet, just an observation — I did a career change as well back in the day. And what I used to really love in my early career of security was sitting with the techies. When I was at MoJ, you would learn something new every day, right? And that willingness to actually talk and explain it to you so you can then go, "Oh yeah, I can go and talk to the next person." So I think I can totally relate to your journey.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I know what a pentest is. I don't need to know all the nuts and bolts. I know what the different types are and I don't pretend to. That's why the pentester is with me. I say, "Right, talk to them." So yeah. Thank you very much, Har.

Hi. Hello.

Hi, I'm Kim.

Hi. I'm interested in your journey as a parent in tech as well. How do you maintain your confidence and your energy while being —

It's all naked morning of coffee and adrenaline. So yeah. No.

How old are you? Have you got kids?

I haven't got kids.

What do you think the future?

I'm getting married in October.

Congratulations.

I'm currently at the stage in my career where I work as a software engineer lead, fantastic team. I've eaten the dog food. Delicious. But it's kind of scary to think that, in a year or two's time, I have to step back for my career, go on return to leave and all that jazz, at a point where I could know that I can push —

Do you know what I —

— push and push and push?

Sorry. I would say if the company aren't supportive of you, they're not worth working for. We need the human population to live on. So if they're not empathetic —

And there's no — now I do sound like a cheese ball — there's no greater joy than being a mom. But it's true, that is the most important job that you can do in the world. So for me that can just wait, and your employer — I know Rosie would — they should be empathetic. I'm sure they will be. I reckon Harriet could answer that. Sorry to put you on the spot. Whilst you're here, what are your views?

Did you say having to take a step back? So I've had two children. I just did a talk about my career, and I think it's not a step back. You're making a choice to prioritize one thing, and remember that your family and your friends are people that need you as well. But it's a challenge for women that you sometimes have to take a chunk of your career where you might have to slow down, but that doesn't mean that you're not going to get to the destination. And I think that just means that you have all those other wonderful experiences. And like Lisa said, if you've got the support from your company to bring someone in that can hold things for you and cover all of that stuff, there really isn't much of a delay or impact to your trajectory to where you're going.

And are there lots of other ones within that company that you can kind of see what's happened, because obviously your environment is going to be really supportive? You've got Rosie.

Yeah, it's really great.

I think it does come down to how it's set up.

Yeah, it's quite a young company. So there's only one or two people that have just started maternity leave. The policy is pretty generous because the founders have become parents themselves and all of a sudden they're like, "Whoa." So I think that's good. I think also it's a confidence thing of myself as well — so far, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, and it's like, "Whoa, actually I can focus on other aspects." A career is always going to be there. It's having the confidence to step back and go, "No, sidestep," and be like, "You know what, it's okay. I'm not going to suddenly lose my tech skills." I think that was my fear — be coding so much, what would happen then?

Well, remember that all parents experience sleep deprivation, which carries on a long time after maternity leave. So the dads as well have to go through a degree of sleeplessness and stress. But you can also share, probably.

Thank you, Kim. Has anybody got any questions?

Hi.

So you're from up north, like a couple of others.

Yeah. Where are you from, Ross?

Sadly, I'm from Pol. I apologize.

Oh no. My brother lives in Holl. I love it. Yeah.

She's from — it's —

Yeah, it's all —

That makes sense. That makes sense.

I should have got stones. I was —

I was just going to say, are you planning on going back now, or you going to stay down here? It's nice.

Well, I'm surprised. What can I say?

Can I just say that?

No, you don't put gravy on everything. Are you doing —

Absolutely —

— conversation from last time?

You know what? Fish and chips and gravy. Shut up.

It's good.

I agree. Anyone else?

Can I get a picture of me doing that with you in the background? Would that be okay? Thank you.

I've already taken a turn to center Rosie, so why don't —

Thank you. She said get a lotus picture.

Do you want to take it?

Should we all do this? Come on. Nice and cheesy, everyone.