Simultaneously Defending against External Hackers as well as the Inside Threat - Ernest Wong

okay sound might not work here so I'm gonna I'll uh lose some of my wow factors this is a very multimedia uh presentation again thank you again match for the introduction um I listed sort of my biography here uh again uh retired military any retirement filter in the audience anyone willing to admit to anyone from the sa there's some vendors out in their former industry books that I can bring them how about high school students students still in the audience now this talk came about because of my uh three years the armed cyber students uh the Army Cyprus 2 was my crash course in cyber security up until then I was a writer military influence officer so

being overseas was great for me that's where I got to practice a lot of military intelligence stuff and that's why you see on the slide here the supplies versus spy in Mad Magazine pads all right if we still still have some memorizing fans it's great um I'll come back to that in a little while uh but miles of the army cyber Institute um on the first week I was there we had an army unit come visit us uh the ACI we got lots of visitors and I imagine got me some insights into our day reception day at West Point where we as an instructor I could volunteer as well so I did that once and they made me cry as

well no no not the psyched on the first time I did in West Point back in 94 so I went through our date back in 1990 and that was the worst day of my life uh they make you seem uh you can't even tell your left foot from your right foot uh when the first uh all day you're with them so that's uh how rough it is uh but uh my first perform cyber Institute we had an army unit come to us and asked us a question can you simultaneously defend against external actors as well as internal threats and so we hope you have a bunch of our researchers uh do a Roundtable discussion on this I wasn't privy to

these conversations as I just came to the unit and I was doing my documentation training I had to go back and do my instructor training because I was teaching at West Point um but this is one of the things that sort of stuck in my mind as because I don't think our organization actually answered that but so eight years later I finally figured it out right so here's the talk and I'm not sure if it's going to be used to the organization that's uh that asked the question uh but here's my attempt to um you know now I used to give a lot of talks uh when I was back in the Army Cyrus uh

and I I went to a lot of b-sides and these sides of New York which is very close to West Point was my very first introduction to this notion of cyber security and he goes like someone said besides I was thinking record players or records and that's what he said yeah I said besides and all these talks that really don't get into a Defcon black hat or whatever uh A-list conference you're looking at and so besides New York back in 2017 was my first introduction this and really come to these talks is gratifying for me because I do a lot of research I did a lot of research into this notion of disruptive or revolutionary Innovations so before I

get into the right The Cloud of my talk what can we do to for both internal Packers as well as the external hackers well I'd like to look at Innovations first and instead of looking at Innovations as one monolith in one Olympic Maggie I break up the quad all right on one axis what your target users are and on the other axis the level of sophistication and so with low technological certification and like the existing markets I call that sustaining uh Innovations or meeting existing customer needs now if we move over to the high tech right I call this evolution of Darwin darwinian types of evolution now if we jump up now this is what Igor was talking about this morning

the notion of AI high-tech uh high-tech Innovation is to solve problems I call these breakthrough Innovations and there's a couple of researchers in business school that have the coinless disruptive Innovations the spaces in the low-tech area but they're targeting new markets I've renamed it to revolutionary Innovations it still confuses folks uh but I think it gives a better sense because I'm using revolutionary in the sense that of its true nature so take a breakthrough right Igor's talk with artificial intelligence we're right or any Star Wars fans here right yeah any shirt with Star Wars I'll grab that's another reason I come back to these talks right five minutes Hiatus I run out of a Tech T-shirts so I've been

replenished now so I'm looking at Star Wars right these these breakthrough types of innovation um but the problem is most people think Innovations control only resigns type to carry right great fear of evolutionary ratios I'm going to argue especially coming to these talks in besides uh other than that e-course talked this morning where Igor was saying learn all these Advanced persons and threats are starting to look into artificial intelligence possibly for um uh hacking right with us primarily is what we're concerned with um I argue that it's this revolutionary space and even the sustaining space evolutionary sustain some space uh a lot of Innovations come up here and I think the the mind talking last one uh for

this conference I think will hopefully you reaffirm that too uh most of the talkers here and then really for the audience of these things through these talks and really when I talk about revolutionary Innovations I'm talking truly revolutions like so if you're thinking about Ryan right now right the issues with the burqa and this ladies this side Mentor that is a revolution she has no power right she died right the police probably uh beat her in the hatch free diet brain tumor or brain hemorrhaging but that's a roughly that's dangerous stuff so if you think about George Washington that was dangerous stuff right we he and his band uh in this case uh the 50 50 folks she signed

her name on the middle decorations right that that's that's Revolution they've signed their names and really had death porn on so it's it's a dangerous space revolutionary space is dangerous and that's why I wanted folks to keep in mind now the Innovations I'm talking about really can't literally be Innovations love text you know every talk I've heard today other than the Keynotes you know talk on every talk I've heard today has been in the space right every time every speaker is who's come up here and I've only seen half talks but everyone's speaking has been up here um Vincent Dale Grant uh they're talking right they're telling you the not only is the penetration low-tech right it's

not that sophisticated the folks are giving the solution The Dales right folks are getting problem wrong is they're giving the solutions they're giving you low Tech right solution is to how the court grows vulnerabilities and really uh when I taught at West Point I always like to give analogies and so for me the best way to give knowledge is uh is yeah uh I grew up watching a lot of TV uh when I grew up they used to give uh a questionnaire I think was back in fourth grade how many hours of TV watch uh my scale was not reflected on the questions I think it was two hours four hours six hours I was here close to like

eight to ten cars a day uh TV so I would go home watch uh General Hospital the end of General Hospital rights of the soap operas where uh closing up the day going to divorce Corps uh yeah and then start thinking the cartoon three six then I've wrote Three's Company here so whether he did it well uh I think I turned on all right but I like to use Technologies in order to get these points cost so for me Spock is the quintessential sustaining type of Internet he's giving Captain Kirk an entire Enterprise right the most logical highest probability success types of options and so for me spark is it right Star Trek fan I agree Star Wars Star Trek

band yeah Star Wars man yeah

now evolutionary I already brought this notion of spy versus spy and so it's really an evolutionary space all you want to do is one up your next best competitor so we're thinking of FC um even the big three right General Motors Ford Chrysler some of those if you're just trying to one-up your next basketball pack now breakthrough right breakthrough it's right it's it's James Bond and particularly the Pierce brosno g spot so if you're thinking Daniel Craig yeah and Casino Royale when they did the Remake he saw it not really high-tech he was doing more of his uh uh action right fighting off with not the gadgets but with his fists and what he had but really for the purest Blossom

jeans he had all the high-tech business and a cue to the right the quartermaster division gave them all to get to the same world now on the Revolutionary side yeah we don't have too many high school students here so we all you know we all know that right that's who's that MacGyver right so we're on the Revolutionary side of spies because MacGyver because God had a Swiss army knife right the rubber band in his pocket the chewing gum pencil and that's what he used to see the same name acting chess started with the James Bond now again halfway we had high school students this is what I like right yeah so we have Jason Bourne right Jason

Bourne he's doing uh everything he's trying to save the day because he can't remember right I can't remember so he's saving daily whatever he's got in his pocket right he's driving many many people leans to the left so he's trying to see a deal with when he's not his disposal now the one I really like is Michael Weston any Burn Notice fans burn notice that so because really it's in the it's in the opening opening sequence right when you've been burned you've got nothing no cash no credit no job history so Michael Weston is saving the day unfortunately he's got lots of friends who have lots of neat tools and lots of toys uh but he is right he's resorting

to uh friends family now one of these doesn't fit on the screen right as much as I like Star Trek spot really doesn't fit in my analogies because all these I'm talking about spots some I've got to throw this clock out right just doesn't fit now I am going to throw some out but yeah if I had Sony here's the Mission Impossible theme song going on I'm not talking about Tom Cruise Mission Impossible because Tom Cruise's Mission possible Right Keys up in the Breakthrough as well even in in uh Ghost Protocol when they were essentially disavowed right the secretary was killed they were disavowed they still have a train full of all his high-tech stuff so

so Tom Cruise Mission Impossible is still a breakthrough he's done all the toys yeah they fail sometimes but he's not the toys so I'm not thinking of the Tom Cruise Mission Impossible I'm thinking uh the original Mission possible where Laramie Morton played Paris and Not only was it Paris to reside in that space it's really the entire IMF of course the Washington forces uh I'm watching series one uh as I was prepping for this brief and I've got my eight-year-old deaf and cooked on it now so he's watching all these Old Mission Impossible episodes he said I want to watch the next one I've been I've allowed him to break curfew twice to watch Ancient impossible

episodes and so in this space right all these folks are really actors playing actors like Hong these governments into doing something you know that the US government wants to do uh I watched uh the third episode in the first season uh they actually tell you the US IMF forces are not sanctioned to assassinations but what they do is they convince this Rogue nation that one of their Skies is informing on them and they execute that guy in the end so now there is one person in the original Mission Sports who ears in the Breakthrough that's Barney right he's always introducing the um uh video recorders tape quarters all the high tech stuff and again they don't

always work and that's one of the nice things with the mission impossible they're sort of rely on the space itself and because the revenue should increase as well right it's a lot of information in the organization goes on now there is one Tom Cruise movie where it does uh get to play sort of a revolutionary at least at least uh

portrayed revolutionary innovation in a positive way anyone remember or think of that movie now I don't have the music here but hopefully the open sequence flow will give enough

I think I broke it sorry thank you

you're just like it's not still playing [Music] now it's not it's not Top Gun to you right still on theater it's not tough one too I'll kill you it's it's Top Gun one right the first Top Gun and here's the interesting thing if I didn't see this this is amazing but it says right here stuff yes I sort of blow it up a little more so it says on March 3rd 1969 the U.S Navy established an elite school for the top one percent of its pilots and its purpose was to teach them Lost Art uh Doctrine or aerodynamics and the interesting thing is that prior to the establishment of hot blood of the the kill ratio of U.S Pilots to

Russian Pilots or bound uh uh down mid-sentence mid-21s down F or f8s was two to one yeah the ratio sounds bad it was really about 50 U.S aircraft uh fire Pilots that died fighter chest looking down to about a hundred of those mig-21s17s but from the perspective of the U.S military who had very good success in Korean War the ratios were closer to 1601 uh they thought of this as a disaster and so the Navy went a decidedly different way than the Arabs in order to to combat or Rectify this revenues problem and so the Navy went with Top Gun and the Air Force they had their own version of popcorn which at Nellis Air

Force Base but it really didn't introduce the notion of dog fighting it just perpetuated the continuation of of what they had already done so it was it wasn't really much change now here's the ratio that came after it right really one year after and this is amazing the top one was only in effect for one year and this was the result in 1971. a 14 or one kill ratio for the Navy Pilots while the Air Force still stayed at two to one so here's the thing uh for the Air Force Air Force generally likes likes those breakthrough types of innovation Air Force we think the Air Force they like the satellites they like um they like dominance over the air they

don't want just uh significant map they want dominance so they're looking at the Next Generation aircraft and that's what they're always looking at the problem for Vietnam was they could not you can't get the Next Generation aircraft out onto the battlefield in one year that's one of the problems with breakthrough Innovation is right the Igor has talked about artificial intelligence he's talking about it's taking time right 1940 we're still still not there yet it takes a lot of time to break through Innovations disruptive or or revolutionary invasions take very little time and that's the great benefit of doing disruptive nation and what the US Navy found out and again really the two to one the Navy Air Force

kept thinking they were doing great uh trying to be breaking what they did was they they came up with uh variants of the F4 so it improved the distance of their missiles and improved their thrust so they had better f4s throughout the Vietnam War it just was not breakthrough Innovations it was really just in that case it was uh evolutionary animation trying to one out one up that makes sense and so again this is really not from a magnet magnetism perspective because I really don't want to scale your numbers but if I do add once one more axis so instead of thinking it as a box that contain as a cube now if we have one more axis of

offset potential I sort of alluded to this first what Innovations give give offset potential it's not the ones down here right the ones in green will not give you right they're just getting slightly better performance over time the ones are giving you offset potential are greatly changed really what we saw in the top behind it's these revolutionary breakthrough Innovations the problem again with grapefruit takes a long time revolutionary takes a little bit of time the problem with revolutionary uh Innovations most of your uh generals most of your [Music] c-suite Executives for you that doesn't appeal to them all right they like looking at things that the bright shiny objects that come out of break through Innovations and so that's

that's a cultural challenge that's uh tough to beat even in the military and so this is what it would look like if it was more scale more reasonably now on the other hand if I instead of offset potential I look at these Innovations and all Bully success I've already alluded to this right it's the ones that have the highest quality success right are in the screen space right so when when these CEOs right they write their self-health books on how to make it big by Nintendo take risks they're not telling to take risks in this green space because you should 89 in in the sustaining and evolutionary space where you should be taking risk are is the Revolutionary breakthrough

space but breakthrough is tough right it's expensive takes lots of time so who can do breakthrough Innovations our government right the government doesn't right that's what Igor talked about darp DARPA does a great job and breakthrough unfortunately he's talking about China as well right he's saying the threat actors the transcripts and other threats they're moving into AI breaking space for potentially future um offensive Cyber attack humans I am not too worried about that from a personal perspective it takes a long time it costs a lot of money if China says it's not to be on the world stage let them spend money on this party because I'll come back to this in just says in one second so Igor said don't

believe the hype she said that don't believe in the high for the AI well Igor was getting a little bit of hype too right so he's saying we sort of need uh AI on defensive side to eventually combat AI in the offensive side I would say don't leave too much of that life I am confident as you can see it by the end of my presentation uh doing revolutionary Innovation a cyber security on the Revolutionary side is more than enough to uh combat with the current temperatures will be and so again this is a more representation representational book uh if I add this probability success access two dimensional around now what I think was toxic floor I gave a

mathematical way of actually doing this but then you just think about Revolution and breakthrough successes it's amazing bag so if you're getting 20 30 successes and then you're doing well if you can get 40 you get to 50 you're doing very very well but it's tough again the notion of revolution of Innovations a lot of people mischaracterize it especially in the media they say everything in these upper spaces Revolution anything that changes the world is a revolution I'm using revolution in a specific sense revolts think about revolts uh it's very dangerous you do not have the capability of capacity uh the training right General Washington his army was terrible we had to get he had a get support from

Prussia he had this from France and all the generals um who have statues at West Point they don't most of them don't have American Wings right these are guys who came over from other nations to help build the Continental Army and it's very dangerous now if I had sound for me what's a more telling me Star Wars right Star Wars we are led to believe through Star Wars that revolutions are easy right Star Wars Episode Four Star Wars Episode 6 Star Wars episode one uh I wrote one right we are led to believe through Hollywood that revolutions are easy and uh folks from home especially at the good cause we'll take over when uh but

see my favorite was not my favorite movie was Star Wars uh five all right Star Wars I Am The Empire Strikes Back when The Empire Strikes Back is telling for me because they are not going to fight the revolutionary right these revolts from our time right they're not going to take you they're putting out the Death Star they didn't bring out the best start with so break through Innovation it takes a lot of time right they're still building it as the uh the Revolutionary the rebels are gonna try to take it out with the back door that's in that into the Death Star we don't need backdoors right they never exist um and so for if you understand this

notion of Star Wars right this what the emperor is doing is he's not going to take care of these revolutionaries there's Rebels one time he's going to destroy whole planets uh to take care of that problem uh and that's very effective right if you get rid of the whole plan here all the rebels are gone now another way of looking at this if those analogies don't work for you it's over a timeline so again it's not that there's no innovation taking place in the evolution of sustaining environment they do take place it's just at a slower rate because really all they're really doing is One update your next competitor so there is an innovation takes place that just a

story so break your Innovations right it jumps off the curve that's what we can visualize right it's a breakthrough Innovation high-tech cost lots of money it takes lots of time but it's jumping off the curve and if it's successful right if it's successful it gets the entire curve up it moves on top but what about this notion of revolutionary innovation you have a low-tech cheaper right uh either idea Innovation uh that that can compete against the Green Space this evolutionary estate how can you compete against the uh the big reality against the Microsoft Hydro communion Cisco well amazingly uh there's a couple of researchers um one from Stanford University and one from Harvard Business School uh that

they study Shauna Brown and Kathy Eisenhower they studied really how these Revolution Innovations appeal really to small markets and in the case of these hacker conferences it appeals to the individual right the individual hackens fighting these zero day vulnerabilities the individual happens who's finding the fix to it or the remedy for right the CVS it's for the individual initially and so that's where it's focused on this is usually for the individual and again I can give examples after examples right IBM versus it out IBM focused on mainframe computers back in the uh 70s 80s right Apple came along focused on the personal computer blockchain someone asked me a question right yeah yeah we know about right this function

of disruptive Renovations uh someone asked me another thoughts does it happen in current day like yeah absolutely right how many people still have a Blackberry in their pockets very few all right yeah ask me a question yeah uh when you read like Christian said about Innovation and how you have these uh Market dominating you know vendors who are disrupted by whoever they should treat them yes that seems like what the security industry is doing now because you have attackers who are finding cheap ways to break in yeah and as these vendors are trying to figure out a way to defend against these attackers it's just getting more expensive so my I guess my question is

do you observe an opportunity for kind of blue team oriented vendors to come in and actually provide solutions to this market for bigly there's appear to be surrendering to the attackers because their products are just too expensive for the small business yeah I think we have one talk today I think it might have been Amy's and JJ because they're talking about purple teams were you talking about purple teams coming in yeah when you talk about purple someone some this morning yeah I mean I'm a big fan of purple teams don't just do a red team right that's so limiting uh do a purple team are you talking about blue teams uh blue and red teams uh improving the space I

am I'm actually hopeful uh it's true that because of this now if you don't have American Christians he's actually going to New York City a much bigger problem he's saying this space right here once you're successful on this green line once you're once you're on the green line you're uh you're May argue you are right for being disrupted and by different uh vendor as you've mentioned doing something faster doing something cheaper doing something that's not being looked at by that bigger company now that's now on the cruise you've noticed on the Green Space it doesn't continue to go up you notice that on the Revolutionary space it doesn't continue to go up that's delivered because usually when the so if

you think about the revolutionaries in real sense when George Washington right kicked the British account was our form of the government better than Bruce not initially right not initially if you study history the first eight years General Washington's presidency that's probably when the British attacked again they'd waited till 1812 which was too late because then right 1812 was a lot further down the road um the U.S thought that our Navy got bigger for a month they got bigger and we got support from much more support from the French uh so when you're getting onto this green space very rarely does in a disruptive revolutionary indication rarely go above Beyond it because if we think about it

from real life perspective revolutionaries who succeed they take over the government but they have limited governing capabilities they're usually worse off the country is usually worse off when the Revolutionary takes over at least for the first few years that's why there's usually another Revolution that takes place because the same type of fraud same types of corruption get blamed on those governments that's why history is great right history we learn how to play history

and Catherine uh

it just you're on the green line once you're once you're a representation success and that's why as the question was earlier that's why it's white again for another disruptive and a classic example of that especially contributions to empower they use the disk drive uh so if you think about computing power of uh however two years we essentially get double Community Park we just want to get all these vendors that 'd be great one year and then to their on top of the industry right through this green space for two years and someone undercuts them because they can get something cheaper twice the twice the power and and it continues on and on and the amazing it's even in the Auto

industry um uh IBM versus app I'm sorry uh gym for Chrysler Toyota Honda what caused the what caused the Japanese arm makers to Horizon comments in the US 1979 yeah gas prices right we had the uh Iranian hostages until we embargo no more a little break gases from Iran so huge we might be seeing a lot of that with the green situation going on but uh who is disrupted Honda and Toyota they're still disrupting right now so Korean companies a Hyundai uh the Kias that's really one company Hyundai Kia uh they sort of disrupt their Pond into on the quality scale uh they were doing them one quad well look what happened they got into the green line

they started building their cars right less gas suspicion but big it's not a tool to put Americans want the South Korean companies um Hyundai and Kia there's another kind of diamond they focused again on smaller markets smaller carbs and lo and behold they sort of disruptive who's who's disrupting any green companies it's still happening it's amazing and please don't tell me Tesla someone always tells me Teslas oh they're on me they're on the Breakthrough right long lead times expensive there's two companies uh Tata out of India again they might do it unfortunately in one of Jaguar which is strange right and that's not a good destructive way they wanted to go in the Electric market and

then in China there's a car a car company called charity and they are focused primarily on the lower end who knows if they'll do it uh history is theoretically it's tough to do but history tells us that it happens over and over again uh but I can give you examples again it's not that they succeed all the time it's not they fail most of the time right these Notions of break through and revolutionary invasions again Major League batting average and I give you I'd give you examples sports TV shows right here does anyone want to test me on it do you need something out right TV right TV TV shows um actually I'm just gonna move because

I think it's movies who remembers blur Witch Project right that's disruptive innovation right they did a horror movie oh it was a video cam and it was a Block Buster hit right guess what happened when they tried to clear witch too well well Executives they moved it into the green space And So It bombed because they were expecting something disrupt them but it was back in the green space um again as a movie fan or I I I'm a big fan of the action movies so it's uh especially the thing again I do like the original possible stuff right the all the Breakthrough right all the high-tech CGI all that stuff again high-tech stuff uh again

testing takes a long mean times uh now on the Blair Wichita that's the Revolutionary space very good shot in like three months very cheap too now the game to my talk now really uh so the notion of actually doing um cyber security that both works external hackers as well as the trumpets and again what I'm really talking about is using Moneyball and really when I was researching this I was thinking about seeding a Honeypot with bad honey and the interesting thing was I found this flip unfortunately you're not going to be able to hear it but uh you don't believe it in here you see this repair you actually don't even need to see it right if you

if you if you do a Google search for for uh mad punishment this is the first uh thing that pops up and the sound is off but there's a bearing in turkey that apparently ingested honey from a rhododendron plant and it was at least an agenda and it causes Bearer to get like apparently it is is causing too much memory problems like but this embarrassment so I changed my the uh my talk to I'll exit this yeah yeah it's it's the too much memory so so if you can imagine this bear comes just the dazed out um and so we actually had a few talks this morning right Vince and I talked about uh honey pots we had a few other

folks don't call Honey pots as a way to um as a cycle defense tool uh to I want to really say protect the network but as an element of cyber defense uh the what I'm really advocating the honey pie is really for for the US government has against the advanced versus the threats because we know that that's Christmas is a threats particularly China and Russia they are after the intelligence so if you look at the Joint Strike Fighter Striker resends the Chinese version It's the current Joint Strike Park yeah they they took the State Buck plans from following all the other contractors if you take a look at satellite satellite technology China India they've gotten a lot of Technology

from NASA and that happens and so I'm advocating that as a cyber defense tool right so how do I achieve revolutionize it we already know about light I'm talking about seating right in this case seeding a honey pot uh I'm just going to go straight from here instead of uh slicer

and this is where I get into the demo or or look into just how long we're stocking go completely downhill in a few minutes um anyone want to be a Coke and spirit with me and author a paper that's why I was hoping to get some high school students if you want to call Author again with me just shut your neighbor shut your name out okay I'll let you be a coach about the meat author shot your name Roy G did Roy Roy G lesson div uh anyone else want to be a co-author John Doe John DP yep I'll put a line on here as well and and that's how long it takes that's a

slime takes to generate two seconds right less than a second to generate a top or paper called natural eligibles by YG Bibb John Depp and cozy band and and this is very mathematical let me uh upper upper the arbitrary now here's the interesting thing about these papers right I got this from uh it's called a math paper generator just Google that I'll come up the original paper generator it's actually a a science and Computing information generators uh these three MIT students generated this uh this uh code that allows you generate papers like these and the amazing thing is the graphs if you look at these these papers got accepted into referee conferences a number of the papers got published in

IEEE Publications right I should leave you know that's the that's the granddaddy of the um Computing science field for publication and they got published with these fake papers where they only take them and the amazing thing is is the sky gender isn't working right now so I already uh I already reversed that one so at least I got the matching or the amazing thing is uh uh right these are amazing it's amazing how they do the Grouch here it looks real it sounds real too right if you've attended some of these talks and have no idea what the speaker is talking about yeah just read these things but the amazing thing is these citations these citations

they're waiting so John Denver we I actually gave you another thing see it's the citation oh even more why bib you got you you we co-authored another paper right we wanted another paper right there's a lot of self-citation that go on in the academic field right I'm guilty of it too uh so this is actually very realistic and so if you can see a hunting pot particularly if you're the US government if you're the NSA if you're the Department of Defense right you're a hot checkup if you're Boeing if you're a Raytheon if you're a company that has a lot of high-tech secrets and you want to see the Honey Pop with a lot of irrelevant irrelevant information

right especially as China right advanced persistent threat I actually got this from a I'm not going to give out any classified information right I can either confirm nor deny any of this happening I got this from a Shmoop on top one of the speakers said the the uh the advanced court system threat name was originally given to China uh back in the 1990s when uh President Obama uh was the administration and it was given because there was so much the Chinese were doing to hack into and steal technology right it's no wonder right so many things look the same uh the Chinese have right now it looks like there's a U.S problem like F-35 Strike Fighter

um but uh does anyone else want to do a paper with me or hit with someone else just that's just how fast these um generators anyone else want to call Author paper you want to give me your name uh maybe yeah I'll just put some random words ABCD but this is how fast it is right generating speakers and so if you're if you're concerned about seeing the honey pie it's taking a lot of effort it really doesn't meet um and the great thing about these papers is it doesn't have to be accurate you just want Honeypot you actually want the thread actor to get access to this report and take away all this information because right there is a

possibility of collision there is a possibly that one of these papers actually turns out to be right it gives a golden nugget but the odds are very low um and again as quickly as it is of course that there's some um parameters specified in this in the programs right it's like 10 pages Max um but you can see maybe right if you get an intern to do this you can see maybe a thousand papers right classify these top secret right whatever code name you want to use and place the honey pot wherever you think it's best it can be placed at the most of your place or complacent outside right I would say place in both places because

information at this point is wasting your throat factors and that's uh and really so welcome to me so if you give this talk and the Chinese and the Russians and the North Koreans now know that you're doing this uh doesn't it diminish the effect of Honeypot sure but they're still doing it right they're calling advanced persistent persistent Advanced really I disagree with they are persistent threats and so they're going to get access to the secrets so if you're like a Coca-Cola or Pepsi this might not be for you right Coca-Cola just needs to protect its formula right if you're Pringles versus Frito-Lay at the law but for a longest time Pringles had a monopoly on the making of that shape fit

into account lays you've tried for 20 years to replicate they're doing it now right with that lace can to get they can never they can never for as big a budget as laser ones compared Pringles they can never get the the chip to be in that shape the foot in the can it only was maybe six years ago seven years ago I apparently made one of my drills out so we had to spend a lot of warranty Budget on that but again if you're a if you're a tech company and you're getting hacked lot and you're seeing a lot of um that's why I recommend sort of the honey pot and seeding it with this type

of mad honey it's not bad honey I'm gonna give a talk in the future bad honey is when you give them stuff that's that kills them right bad honey there is bad honey on there when I leave Google search for bad honey and stuff that will kill you mad hunting is stuff that will keep you occupied keep you dazed keep you confused and then keep your wheels spinning and that's I think that's what uh our government needs uh have we done before I mean down

yeah so in case the internet didn't work they told me to have backups so that's what the backup uh everyone I actually did a paper with I co-authored paperwork and I had to introduced this to episode so they always get a plus paper if you guys I always learned these papers across my uh office space whenever Cadets are coming to office instructions hey look at this paper I wrote that's almost big one and I'll you co-authorizing another paper on January two minutes

two years to publish paper and that's that's on the academic track that's uh that's pretty fast that's yes and usually these side papers go faster normal usually it's like three to five years to get something published even if after it's considerably so it's tough um so really how do you invest cyberspace uh well I think the NSA resides mostly in the spiritual space right if you taught these hey guys you guys from snap they're a former ask me guys I like talking because right they're always thinking uh he's very expensive very high-tech ways of forwarding them it's either through offensive or defensive capabilities uh now sometimes you'll get Colonel's nuggets that's that's pretty cool you guys did it in a cheap and fast

way right we had we had a Grant the high school student he gave English to Stockton right again I can either confirm nor can I start Smith was a U.S a zero-day vulnerability but uh I read dark territory and in dark territory it tells us how stocksnap was not very Advanced right in Stockton if you don't know it took down one of the suspected Iranian nuclear processing facilities which the U.S thought was building like an equal bombs and I would say stop snack was was elegant it was not sophisticated um and very similar to most of the talks that we've heard at least I've heard all day uh today it took down the centrifuge but it was essentially a scada right

stuff that essentially took down a ICS scada type facility right industrial control system right building nuclear nuclear fission right log centrifuges going on so what happened was that it hits right there accessory book essentially caused the turbine to spin faster and slower than they were supposed to but what made it elegant it wasn't sophisticated though what made it elegant was that it spoofed the folks who were monitoring the ICS systems um right they're getting feedback from saying that it's still spinning normal right everything is so what that was to me elegant it smoothed The Operators and gave more time for this uh facility now because it was an ICS system we generally think of the industrial

control systems are standalone so the other sophistication came along by Marriott Mission Impossible I think most successful Innovations um this life appears because I really want the NSA to start thinking of what the CIA can bring to that it's not it's not just talk to them about what the CIA CIA does for car intelligence right the honey pot is just the one of the plethora of tools CI has at his disposal unfortunately the current CI manual is classified um so I can't miss out the the tools but if you look up counterintelligence uh properties you know Google you'll see enough where you can make sense without even looking at the U.S classified car intelligence tools but if the NSA talks

to CI folks and asks CI folks from the CIA what do you do when you think there's a spa in the U.S right which is why allowed anyone will watch the Americans or you saw a root for these Russian spies who love American lives of course you're awesome rooting for the FBI Connor donors guys at the same time as a resort but but these again floors you can get smart right that's the that's the uh that's the ultimate I guess in in satire for this genre but I think if the NSA does more with the CIA they'll get some insights into a cyber defense that they haven't thought about uh because they're focusing on this high-tech space

the high-tech um a breakthrough to break through space now um that's it for my talk now I do want to thank really Eric Dallas and Michael John Kevin is the one that approved the talks that you really want to thank Kevin uh but I would encourage everyone here to try to give a talk as well um uh I think the number of folks said that uh if for nothing else here at b-sides the speaker dinner last night was outstanding uh ask the folks who are there uh this is one of the best sneaker dinners I have had and uh it's hard to wake up this morning um uh but the the b-sides uh KC team did

a great job I wrote for the speakers walking this year and really for really all folks in the uh in the Lifeguard shirts I guess okay just give a thanks thank you out to them because without that we will and I also would like to give a plan because of general surgery I want to get a plug for my next talk so for next year hopefully uh uh my talk will be I've learned time travel and it's fun that's that's my first uh iteration when Title I normally go to like 10 iterations but that's that's uh hopefully it might come back next year and that's cool and and here's the last Slide the honey traps will work and really work in

real life can anyone tell me what a picture it was

a joke yeah well most people want man I don't have my bills so uh right I thought most people would say it's in the U.S space shop right it works the whole lot and then I blow this is my last pull right it's got a Russian flag on it this is the anyway commutes really

it was the Russian space shuttle looks a whole lot like the U.S station all right purportedly the CIA because they knew the space race was still going on right most people say the U.S won the space race that was only because we got to the Moon first right the Russians were chipping right the questions are running enough until they got to learn and so the Russians back in the 70s and 80s still wanted to beat us his face and and uh purportedly a CIA agent either fed a Russian agent or a double agent or spy uh false information the exception gave the Russians the initial designs the initial which singing would fail right they gave him the initial heat shield

design they found that that would fail well let's pass this over to the Russians and so somehow the Russians got a hold of us and so the station looks a whole lot like ours right they got the uh they got the Diagnostics and the schematics somehow looks very similar um but most folks would have said and that never uh it never flew the price right her stroke is took over it I think SDI right SDI is probably another uh use of deception uh deception I think is a great use of revolutionary types of innovation if we can fake our way into our opponents thinking that we're more capable or we're doing things or with the state math and see us let them let

let the threat actors right have mad honey let them play around with this let them translate it and let them figure out if it's real and we just say hey I can either confirm her or not um but again another example I think a great uh one really of how honey club actually worked and with that I take to my last slide is I think the yeah this is just the Fuller slide I think about this right it's what the Russians have been doing better and again it starts with Estonia the first Cyber attack on the world Russia attacked Estonia uh had it connected that was back in 2007 the very first Cyber attack Foundation happened again

in Crimea uh the interesting thing with the current conflict in Ukraine I didn't hear a lot of cyber attacks uh taking place on the Russian side I Heard Law Center attacks taking place are Anonymous against Russia that was kind of History because the Russian modus operandi it seems like this they're using cyber as their initial Russians using cyber as their initial companies and so that is considered not only for me but if you're particularly on the Department of Defense uh NSA uh that is going to be the initial one's pregnancy initial indicators initial threats you see and so with that I'm out of time um I'd love to answer more questions about honeypot's talk about disruptive

innovations that served by Forte I like thinking of other ways where instructive Innovations actually do make their ways into mainstream mainstream culture and make noise to success hopefully you can give feedback to the conference organizers of my presentations and anything else uh and with that I will close out the talk and get us ready for prizes thank you very much

[Applause]