HG - Tracking and hacking your career

all right so I'm Leaf uh this is hacking and tracking your career uh I was supposed to have a fantastic co-presenter but unfortunately she could not make it she is getting married to a very nice Elvis impersonator that she met yesterday uh I'm Leaf uh I've spent the last decade working in the security industry in a bunch of different roles uh my last four have been in people management both uh kind of in security and software engineering and I'm very excited to be back here with y'all in Vegas I always look forward to seeing friends and uh meeting new people when I'm out here and I'm currently an engineering manager at sem grip I also

co-host uh a podcast 404 security not found which does monthly news and discussions Anna is a former co-host as well and before samre I worked at a company called seg mint which sounds very similar but is not very similar in terms of what the companies do as an appsec engineer and then later went on to do a bunch of software engineering in the security space and then became an engineering manager uh you might have heard of semrep we have a popular open source tool but we also have paid offerings for static code analysis software composition analysis and secret scanning and if you want to learn more about any of these there's a variety of semre

people in the audience here uh that I got our CEO to say they had to come and if you want to talk more they'll they'll be here we also have a booth so uh that's the last you'll hear about some GP um the agenda we are going to talk about how performance reviews work how to prepare throughout the year how to get recognized for your work how to have lad based career conversations and how to prepare for promotions at the end of the presentation you should hopefully have some new tools to help you get that next raise the slides uh are on this bit.ly link if you want to take a picture of this uh that might save you from taking

pictures later uh it's htyc for hacking tracking your career um also have this later in case you decide later that you want it so raise your hand if you are an individual contributor all right uh keep your hand up if you would consider yourself as early in your career keep uh raise your hand if you're interested in becoming a manager okay few people and uh raise your hand if you're manager right now okay cool good mix uh so this talk is for both individual contributors and managers most of my experience is as a first as a manager is as a first-line manager so managing other individual contributors although I do have a little bit of

experience managing another manager um for individual contributors uh these are going to be skills that are just going to help you throughout the year uh and it's going to give you insight into how a layer above you your manager's layer operates managers need to be able to teach your team these skills and then you also need to be able to apply these to yourselves because you are also growing in your career um if you're a good manager that's going to help your team because you're going to be able to get promoted and get more scope and more influence within your company which allows you to uh help out the folks on your team that are doing

well so uh part of my Amisha philosophy is that you are responsible for a lot of your own Career Development and it doesn't matter if you're an IC or a manager uh part of your manager's job is to teach you these skills help you stay on track uh collaboratively chart a career path but they shouldn't be expected to plan your whole career for you things are pretty formulaic at most companies to go from an entry level engineer into a mid-level engineer but they get less so as you get more senior and you need to be able to navigate these things yourself uh autonomously as you level up through throughout your organization learning to do these things

independently is going to help insulate you from Bad managers changes in managers and will accelerate your own growth nobody else is going to be with you your whole career so getting to learn how to do these things yourself is really really important so uh next I'll talk about some things that you need to prepare for throughout the year everybody's juggling a lot of things and it's easy to forget the details of what you worked on a few months ago and your manager is also so going to miss things they're not going to remember everything that you worked on especially if it if it's a bigger team when you're earlier in your career they're going to be a lot more Hands-On

with the things that you're doing but that isn't going to be the case forever and you it's a really good time early in your career to get in the habit of tracking your accomplishments if you're not early in your career and you don't have this habit it's never too late to start um but make sure uh that in addition to tracking the things that you're working on that you understand how performance reviews and calibrations work at your company if you don't know this ask your manager if your manager doesn't know make sure that they figure it out and hold them accountable to telling you uh ideally they would be doing this proactively uh but if they

don't you should tell them to do it so one of the most important yearr round events for your uh pay and your progression throughout your career is performance reviews um most companies do these two times a year some companies do them one time a year uh during full reviews uh you'll do a self-review you'll get reviews from people that you work with regularly these are called peer reviews and then you'll also have a review from your manager the manager reviews typically include a performance rating meets expectations exceeds expectations something like that um as well as an evaluation of whether you're ready or not for promotion you want to prepare for these as I said by taking notes

throughout the year and um I included just like a quick sample of what a two riew year might look like you might have the first review period be January through June this typically means that you're writing reviews and doing calibrations and things like that in sometime like July or August and then uh the work that you do between July and December that's going to be review period to and that's going to be uh something that you would do the uh mechanics of in January or or February some places also do a promo only review I think this is better than only doing one review a year because it gives people a second opportunity to get

promoted instead of waiting 6 months um I like doing full reviews twice a year even though it's a lot more work for everybody involved but I think that it is nice uh for people to get more formal feedback um on a more regular Cadence especially if they're on a team where their manager isn't doing um more regular career conversations so I've said calibration a few times um calibration is when managers go over projects ratings and performance Readiness for their reports uh your manager is just going to be up there by themselves you're not part of this um managers can expect for their proposals to be stress tested by other managers they might ask questions um

this is when ratings can change so maybe your manager thinks that you got a meets maybe another manager thinks that based off of what they've said that it's below that or above that I think it's actually a good sign when there's some disagreement amongst managers since it means that people are actually paying attention and scrutinizing in proposals as long as stuff is being applied fairly um but I think it's actually bad if nobody's checking anything because then managers are just going to promote people and if you have people that aren't ready for that next level and they're just getting promoted it really causes a lot of problems in your organization make sure as I've said that

you really understand how this process works because it's really important uh and impactful to your compensation after calibration there might be an additional step where engineering leadership does a review of promotions your manager may be asked to create a promotion packet for the leaders of your company to look at this is a great growth opportunity if you can work on this collaboratively not every manager will do that it's not always possible for you to work on this but I do think it gives you some really valuable insight into how your promo is being finalized it's also a good opportunity to make sure that you're being uh represented accurately so now that we've talked about some things that just kind of

happen at a lot of companies uh there's a few things that you should watch out for and try to insulate yourself from one is when your manager changes this is typically something you're not going to have a lot of control over I mean maybe during a reorg you can advocate for yourself to stay with them if if you like that manager but a lot of times they're leaving the company or things are changing around Jun you're not going to have a lot of agency here but one thing that you can do is make sure that you are tracking your accomplish ments this is a really good way to help onboard your new manager to the things

that you've been working on you can walk through your list of all the projects you've been doing the last few months and then you also need to um oh you might be tempted to think that your old manager is going to take care of this assume they won't sometimes they will uh especially if they're still at the company but really you should be preparing for a situation where they're leaving and uh they don't do any of this stuff if you're a manager uh try to take care of people on your team if they're changing teams within the company if they're going to change to a new team try to have a last career conversation with them if you haven't had one in a

while and make sure that you document the things that they're working on make sure that their projects and their their lists are in good shape this can really help them keep momentum towards whatever that next level that they're working on and is I would say doubly or triply important if they're close to a promo if they're close to a promo really try to make sure that you have some time to with their new manager if you're leaving the company this person might not be at the company already but if you write up documents and share it with your manager uh hopefully they will take care of things and hopefully they'll share that with this person's manager but um I

think you can really have a positive impact uh when you're you're switching to to do this kind of handoff some things uh can be pretty unpredictable especially to individual contributors reorgs can happen suddenly sometimes they're painful sometimes they're welcomed um but uh the best way to keep yourself on track is to make sure that you have a list of the things that you're working on and uh this is also helpful because as you get more senior um it's going to be less straightforward for how you get promoted and so having your uh a plan in mind that your old manager bought in on uh and that you're working towards regardless of whatever else is happening

is a good way to make sure that you keep making progress planning Docs and retrospective docs are a great way to help keep projects on track and reduce instances where you make the same repeated mistakes these docs are pretty common in security and Engineering organizations that are doing a lot of Project based work um but they can also be really helpful for your career growth since they are a written record of the projects that you worked on if you haven't written um engineering docs before uh I think it's really important it's a really good way to get good at technical writing which again is another thing the more senior you get you need to be able to influence people

throughout the company um and especially with so many people working out of different offices or working remotely uh I do think that written communication is something that you really really need to get good at and then the earlier you start the more practice that you'll have so uh once you've written down a plan for your work now it's time to socialize your work with people that uh are qualified to review it this is just going to make the the project go better I know it can be painful to get uh you know critiques on the designs and things like that but I promise it's way more painful to have to go back and redo something uh where somebody could have

told you how to do it better UPF front and so just make sure that you're getting uh your plans reviewed by other people on your team or other people at the company that you know have experience in this area if you're being asked to review things make sure that you're uh debating the idea not the person this isn't about being right it's about helping you and your co-workers have the best plan possible to give you the best chance of success if you have time um to build in extra time into your plan for testing and supportability and metrics that's something that can really make your performance reviews stand out um I wrote a Blog about this a couple years ago ago

about some of the product uh metrics that we have for some of the security things that we built at segment and uh project Retros I know this is just like one more document that you have to write and a lot of people don't like doing these but I really think that these are an important part of making sure that you don't make the same mistakes and they're also a really good thing to look at um when you're being asked to do your own self-reflections if you haven't written a project retro this is just a pretty simple uh format that I follow it's not something that should take a ton of time but it is something that's pretty useful

to have uh in like a shared document store like notion or G drive or whatever once you've completed the doc even though you might be a little bit vulnerable uh in the in the document like maybe there's some things that didn't go well be honest about things that could be improved share the doc with your team this is a really good opportunity for the people that you work with to learn from the things that went well as well as the things that uh didn't go so great if that sounds a little scary uh the benefit to you is that you have something that's just built in when you get asked that question that everybody hates about like what are your areas of

improvement just go back to your old retro docs and look at the things that could have gone better in your projects and create some themes and now you just have a a built-in answer to those questions another source of information for uh your self-reviews are or or your peer reviews actually are quarterly team Retros I think it's a great time to look back at the things that you've done on a little bit longer time scale uh sometimes if you just are doing project Retros it you can be a little bit narrow thly focused on like that project and not look at the themes that are either uh helping your team or plaguing your team and so doing something quarterly is

helpful for the teams that I manage we follow a pretty simple format I ask everyone to add what we worked on to the gray section before the meeting um that just saves time and people you know that's usually the the least exciting part is just listing what we worked on and then I have people in real time populate uh what went well and we'll add little plus one stickers so that people can vote on the things that they agree with we'll spend some time talking about those and then we'll do the same thing for what could be improved and then as we're going we'll take action or we'll write down action items and learnings in

the uh the blue square another thing that I found really helpful especially as a manager um but I I actually like wish I had done this as an IC as well is I'd set some time aside to take some weekly notes and I'll write notes about myself about uh about my manager about people on my team um or people that I work with closely even if they're not somebody that I manage um I just have a recurring calendar event on Friday to write down some stuff it comes in handy when you need to write a lot of these reviews especially peer reviews I think a lot of times people are just like oh I worked so closely with this person but

like what should I tell them um this is a good way to avoid that sometimes I don't feel like writing notes uh or I don't have time and that's okay it's better to have some notes than to have no notes um I found that this was really helpful when I was doing peer reviews for people because I just like could go back and look at stuff that happened throughout the the quarter um it's also a good reminder that if somebody did especially great work to drop a note to their manager this kind of thing goes a really long way and I I think not enough people do it so uh to wrap up this section some

year round artifacts that are really helpful when you need to uh do review writing is uh your engineering design docs your project Retros your team Retros and your weekly notes uh I think the first three are just part of being part of a mature security or engineering organization so you should be doing those anyway but if you need some extra motivation to do a good job on those uh think about yourself so I've talked a lot about writing down your accomplishments um I call this a hyp list and this could be being somebody's Mentor it could be features that you've built it could be changing a process it could be giving a conference presentation um or anything

else that you think is significant it's better to just write down extra stuff and then go through and prune it out later if you're like actually that like didn't really matter um but uh if you're thinking hey you know you're telling me to write weekly notes you're telling me to do this hyp less thing like this is a lot of annoying stuff um you know the I get it the last thing you want to do is like keep tabs on yourself and you might be thinking like my manager know what's going on um that is probably not true and if you make time for this a few times a month uh it's not that bad I

actually hate doing stuff like this but once I got into the habit of doing it it's I promise it's not that bad and uh really the motivating factor here should be this is an opportunity to make more money um and get promoted it's a lot easier to do those things if you've been writing down the that you've been doing rather than trying to remember it six months later um and again as I mentioned earlier if you get a new manager this is a really good way to onboard them so that when they show up they're like oh this person rocks they've been doing all this cool stuff um I'm excited to work with them so hopefully that got you convinced

to do a hype list I promise it's not that painful I just use a g sheet with a few different columns in it um the what happened is just a super brief summary of what you did assume the person that is reading it is at least like kind of familiar with your projects um obviously this isn't going to be true if you're using it to onboard a new manager but you should just walk them through the document the first time and they can just ask questions and it's a really good opportunity to just get to know them and and share what you've been up to impact I think this is the one that most people do a bad job on um the until

they get some coaching um think about what is the business impact of what you've been working on think about not just what you built but why you built it or why somebody asked you to build it and then this is a really good time to incl incorporate some metrics as I mentioned earlier uh it's a lot more impactful um during calibrations and during performance reviews and even when you're just you know just operating within your company to be able to say hey I built this thing and it's used by 10% of our customers or it saved us money or it made us more money than just saying like hey I built this thing and just hoping that whoever is reading or

listening to you is able to draw that connection between what you did and how it positively impacted your business um so yeah I would say think about these things a few times a month um and and just even if you don't add things it's good just to get in the habit of thinking about them does anybody have a doc like this already all right other than you two people that raise your hand uh start on one of these next week if if you have some time uh focus on the last six months you don't need to go back forever look at poll requests look at project docs uh look at your calendar to backfill data if sounds horrible uh just

do the most recent project it's better to just get started and keep tracking stuff going forward than to get bogged down and not do it and just like never have any of this stuff another thing that I think a lot of people uh find uncomfortable is getting recognized for their work this is not about bragging um it's an important component of getting rewarded for your hard work uh if people don't know you're doing stuff it's hard for them to say like hey we should give this person more responsibility or more money or a better title or whatever so uh make sure that people know what you're doing this helps your peers stay informed about what people are doing at their

company this can avoid situations where two teams start working on the same thing um again this is a good opportunity to flex your technical communication skills which get more and more valuable the more senior you get and then it's also a good opportunity for people to understand your areas of expertise this can create interesting project opportunities it can give you a chance to m Mentor people and it also helps support you during calibrations as I mentioned earlier your calibration is when your manager goes and presents to a bunch of other managers if those other managers are already familiar with your work because the people on their team know what's going on or they know what's

going on um it's a lot easier for your manager to get their ratings and their promos approved rather than oh I'm trying to get somebody approved and like nobody has heard of any of this stuff and I have to spend extra time explaining why it's important so some ways to share your work um you can sign up for company demos at semrep we do demos every Friday this is a low pressure low stress way to share what you've been up to it doesn't have to be something technical people demo uh spreadsheets people demo processes it can be anything um we also have a product updates Channel where people post uh updates um about things that they're working on for our product

you can also post updates in your team channel so that people uh can can see those we have a shoutouts Channel where people can just give public accolades to to folks that have done some really great work and then you can also write blogs and speak at events I know it can be really uncomfortable for some people uh but you need to do it it does get easier over time and you might be thinking should my manager be doing this stuff and the answer is yes they should but you should also be doing it because it's way more effective if both of you are doing it than if just one of you is doing it and

there in addition to that there are might be a time where you don't have a manager or they're too busy or something and so having you do it is is really important um this could be a whole talk it actually has been a whole talk uh that I gave here at uh besides Las Vegas last year which I'll include a link to but here's some just quick tips if you want to get started with blogging and speaking um your outline serves as the basis for your blog or your presentation similar to your hyp list this is something that you can write over the course of months like when I'm working on a presentation I just add notes I

don't worry about structuring them I don't worry about it making sense to anyone but me um but this serves as the jumping off point when you go to actually write that presentation or uh submit to a conference this content helps your team with recruiting this gives folks outside of your company an opportunity to learn about the stuff that you and your team are working on and somebody's going to read that and be like yes that is something that I also want to work on um some of the best people that we had joined the last company that I was at joined and they would always cite the fact that we were giving presentations and and blogging and stuff like that if

you're looking to get started uh a great place to start is with podcasts and local meetup groups as somebody who's been a chapter organizer before there's always a lack of people that are willing to give presentations and a lot of times they're willing to work with people even if they're firsttime speakers to help out some conferences like bsides also have a speaker mentorship program that you could check out next year and then uh everyone gets rejected uh I got rejected this morning for oos SF so it it happens um just keep applying to stuff and keep practicing and you will get you will get a shot for sure um and then don't forget to act the

add these activities to your hype list too so if you want to read about some stuff that I wrote about speaking and fostering a culture where people speak I wrote a couple blogs about this last year and then as I mentioned I co-presented with Colleen kulage who was uh the Fantastic ceso of segment uh about these topics uh here at bsides and so you can check out the recording if you prefer to watch stuff so hopefully uh I see some of you up here next year I love hearing about people submitting to their first conference I had a few people that read the blogs last year reach out and say that they got accepted to uh some

conferences which was really rewarding so uh yeah if you if there's something you're on the fence about just just do it the next topic is Ladder based self-reviews and career conversations so ladders are an imperfect system but they do help standardize levels within an organization without ladders it's more likely that performance reviews are going to be influenced by time enroll Vibes and people being noisy about not getting promoted which is not a very fair system um and they also help with tying your work to a more widely accepted standard of what it means to be operating at a certain level within your organization so just to be clear when we're talking about levels uh these are

some example levels that your organization might have you might have like a an entry-level software engineer a midlevel a senior staff um different companies use different levels but like these are some some relatively common ones ladders are a great way to help set expectations for what people need to do to meet the standards of a given title and role for example senior security engineer they're also a more objective way to get people aligned on promotion Readiness uh and if you haven't seen ladders before check out progression. FYI they have a bunch of Open Source ladders that people um have posted from their companies intercom is on there Circle CI is on there so there's like

well-known companies that have ladders if your company doesn't have ladders this might be an opportunity for you to bring them in uh especially if if you're a manager you could work with other managers to build them it is worth noting that ladders are expensive or can be expensive to build and maintain so a lot of smaller companies aren't going to have ladders you also might not have ladders for more specialized roles you really need like some critical mass of people in a given role to have the maintenance and building cost of the ladders actually make sense um as I mentioned ladders can be a really good way to guide your career conversations um you want to be on the same page about

how you're doing performance-wise before the Performance Cycle uh it's a really bad situation if you just like are completely surprised by uh the ratings sometimes it can happen you know if somebody changes managers or like just hasn't had time to have a lot of these comos it can happen but if you've been reporting to the same person for a while it's much better to have these conversations before performance review season and you can actually use these to write your reviews your manager can use this information to write their reviews so it's pretty helpful one way to do this is you can deconstruct the ladders so um like two of these sections are impact and craft

and then there's different bullet points underneath these that you can do individual ratings for you can make these more or less granular depending on how much time you and your manager have um but it's a good way to just have some structure to this uh performance review process and and these career conversations this is a link from um a Blog that I wrote you don't need to look at this right now obviously but just if you go back uh you can click this and see like what a deconstructed ladder might look like um so when you're filling out the details each row is a granular assess assessment for each point on like that section of the ladder the first time

that you go through this it's naturally going to take longer because you or your manager doesn't know how this process works um but after the first time after you've gone through it it should be pretty easy to go through this for future times and you just need to do a Delta between last time and this time uh you don't need to go through and like do a full revamp every single time um and you can fill it out collaboratively together the first time just so you kind of understand like what all the different rows mean and uh you're on the same page about uh like what the ratings are and that kind of thing after that I

recommend filling it out separ Seely and then copying in your evaluation at the same time as your manager so that you know you're not just looking at theirs or they're looking at yours it it really does bias things if there's already some some data in the columns this is the rating system that I use just to kind of show some progression over time um especially as you get more senior you might not see a change in every single row uh you might just not be working on the right projects to be making progress in certain areas and that's fine uh As Long As You Are are making progress towards whatever the next level is that is

totally okay you can spend less time talking about the cells where you basically both wrote the same thing and like gave yourself the same rating and then spend more time talking on the cell talking about the cells where you don't agree um if you are rating yourself higher than your manager meaning that they think you're doing worse than you are and you disagree I think one of the most productive things you can do is just brainstorm way to improve a given category because as you improve uh their rating of you is going to get closer to how you think you're doing um I think this is better than just trying to like argue over the ratings if you really

think that they're Mis assessing something like it can be worth it to try to convince them otherwise but I think it's better just to try to improve in a given area um it's also worth keeping in mind that generally for each row you're going to need more than one example you're not just going to go from like yellow to Green because you did something one time especially as you get more senior you need to be able to show you can do senior projects repeatedly you're not just going to do one senior project and then get immediately promoted if you're going through the ladders uh and you find something confusing you should give that to your

you should give that feedback either to your manager or to whoever is maintaining the ladders um these improvements are things that can benefit other people on your team and so uh you know these are living documents these are things that that change over time a lot of companies uh use ladders for a pretty broad set of roles so it is worth keeping in mind that even if it doesn't like totally apply to you maybe you're a full stack engineer maybe the ladder also applies to sres and security Engineers so there might be a like pretty broad cross-section of people that are using the same ladder um but on the flip side if everything feels a

little bit off it might be worth it to actually make a new ladder um again there needs to be enough people benefiting from thead ladder to have that make sense but a lot of places do have separate ladders for security Engineers versus software Engineers another uh like this is more seldom um because you're not going to be getting promoted as many times as you're getting reviewed but another thing that's useful to know how it works is the promotion thesis uh promotion thesis or promotion packets as I mentioned earlier uh can be part of the promo process and they're either something that's presented during calibration or they're an intermediate step in between calibration and final approval this is the promotion thesis we

use it's pretty simple the first one is why now what's changed between the last cycle and the current cycle uh why this cycle instead of the next cycle what's the case for promotion how is this person already demonstrating that they're at that next level um this is where completing a deconstructed career ladder for your current level and for your next level can be helpful because then your manager can show like hey these are the areas that they're they're already demonstrating and then what would be the case against promotion um there's always going to be something that you know you're not doing at the next level and the folks at your company want you to be successful and

they want your manager to have a plan to mitigate some of these areas um and so it's better to just like be honest about how you're going to address these rather than trying to pretend like they don't exist so um now that we've talked about the template here's some things that you can do to make sure that you're prepared for these um try to work on a promo p packet collaboratively this might not be something that you can always do as a manager or as an individual contributor um but if you can work on this together it just gets both of you more invested in the process and it shows people like how uh this stuff works and uh as I

mentioned previously like try to do a deconstructed ladder for your current level to show like hey this person is exceeding and then also do one for the next level to show that they're already meeting some of these like next level requirements and then it's also worth keeping mind not all promos get approved even if you and your manager think you're ready that doesn't mean that it's going to survive calibration um try not to get discouraged by this I think as a manager you need to use your judgment on whether or not somebody that reports to you is ready to know that they're up for promotion some people might take it poorly if they uh you know don't get

promoted but the way that I would think about it is typically when a promo doesn't go through you're going to get really useful information from the other engineering managers about why they didn't think you're ready and then you can actually address that before the next cycle and I've been in a lot of calibrations at this point and you'll often hear things that were referenced last time of like hey this person's pretty close they're not quite there and then they'll do some stuff during the next cycle and people will be like oh yeah we said this was kind of what they needed and they did it and so I think it's actually helpful to get that info

rather than uh like not trying until you think you're like kind of guaranteed to get it so uh this one's for the managers in the room um one thing that I do before calibration is I create cheat sheets for all the people that report to me with pre-written answers unfortunately um a big part of calibration is how good your manager is at calibration and so having prepared answers for things uh can just make you come across way more confident and uh people like that and so you're going to be able to do a better job representing your team if you just have stuff that's already pre-built and you can just answer it on the Fly

another thing you can do is get support from other managers beforehand um I work with Misha who was supposed to be my co-presenter and I worked pretty closely with some of the people on her team uh during a previous review period and one of them was up for promotion and she asked me beforehand if I would uh you know speak on this person's behalf which I was of course happy to do and it's really nice to have more than just the person's manager talk positively because that's just going to help make sure that things get get approved so some closing thoughts uh take steps to own your own Career Development nobody's going to be with you uh your

whole career and so it's important that you can uh play an active part in directing your path make sure that you know how this stuff works at your company even if you've gone through it before things change companies grow companies get acquired so make sure you know how it works every single time uh if your manager doesn't know how it works make them figure it out and tell you uh if your company uses career ladders during calibration make sure the first time you're hearing about them is not uh during performance season go and look at what is in your ladder make sure you're having convos with your uh manager about the ladders how you're doing relative to

them document your uh your progress and setbacks throughout the year this makes writing reviews a lot easier for yourself uh the positive and the negative and then lastly celebrate wins whether they're your wins or your co-workers wins make sure that your work's visible make sure that you're recognizing other people for their uh contributions to your company and make sure that their manager knows that you think that they're doing a great job so um that's it I'm happy to take some questions I'll also be at the semr booth for a little bit after this um there's a link to the slides uh the substack link also has a Blog that I wrote about the same topic uh maybe like a couple months

ago so if you want to just skim through that on on text form it's there but um yeah thanks for attending and uh happy to take questions [Applause]