Ticking Box or Ticking Bomb? Leadership, Trust, and Cyber Security Maturity

welcome to besides newcastle thank you for coming and i'll take it away hello everyone and uh thank you very much for having me this is the first time i'm talking at b-sides so it's quite excited as well as i'm a newbie for this community so if i'd say something that you should normally talk about just you know apologize in advance but sam and the team thank you so much for having me here and inviting me for this talk today i'm going to be talking about chicken box or chicken bomb i first did this talk back in last year i think for ic squared london chapter since then i've modified so so big thanks again for the

newcastle team i used to live in newcastle for a while so i'm very close to the environment and the culture the people are i love the people in newcastle so thumbs up for joining and all of you joining here today thank you so let's get to the talk you can hear me okay right loud and clear nice so um basically i just wanted to go back to uh my first slide so i associate with many brands but two uh which are really close to myself is meta defense labs my company which i co-founded and then she sees exec which is a give back platform a little bit about uh the agenda so we're going to be talking about what i

do hygiene then tick box exercise and and a bit of a rant on some of the challenges and what this could look like and the ticking bomb so i'm not going to go too much around these things but we'll get to that so what am i i like to think i can be wonder woman i wanted that one this and then sometimes come up with some things that i can help the community and uh the the industry on try and see if i can change the world pretty much as you can see um i have a very high expectation when it comes to my role models and during my day time what do i do so i

work as it consultant and i work as a cyber security consultant currently my i'm engaged on a project with cisco and i also do gdpr consultancy and i'm a cyber essential assessor and i asked my audit to an iso 27001 lead auditor and a lead implementer those are kind of some of the day jobs i do apart from that i also work as a virtual cesar this is a new thing that i started recently but i think i'm really getting good at it it's kind of opportunity for me to consolidate 20 years of my experience in the industry and i also work as the managing director for meta defense labs uk and sri lanka which i

co-founded in 2015 since then we've got we've opened two offices we are a boutique cyber security company and also a authorized certification body for cyber essentials and is me frameworks for on me annie i'm really sorry to interrupt you the um the slides are coming through a little bit pixelated so it's difficult to to read what's on there i don't want to get further in and it continued to be an issue all right can you read can you read the text at all it's good blood isn't it yeah it's the the rest of it looks really pixelated um let me see if i can close some of the browsers okay sorry it's all right yeah i can see

i'm gonna stop share for a bit i've stopped sharing right okay

okay let's try again

can you see now that's a lot better than it was yeah it's still a little bit blurry but it's readable okay cool and we'll edit this out in the recording don't worry it's like nothing no worries so um yeah we have a site so i what i do during the daytime so i manage the team here i get to both around my team at meta defense labs they're like my family i love them and i'm also a public speaker i recently did my uh that was last year tedx talk and i found that she sees exec which you must all know it's our mission is to create emotionally intelligent uh cybersecurity leaders so we have a

we're creating a global talent pool and we strive to bridge the skills gap diversity gaps leadership gaps and empower subsequent leaders in the industry which i'm going to be talking a bit more about later on so this is my tedx talk which i did last year i ask you all to watch this and also share not to promote me but also to get to get the message around to everyone it's a message that i want the world to see about why cyber security matters and why it should we should all be emotionally intelligent cyber security leaders some of the uh platforms i was featured on and and awards and recognitions and i think uh self-promotion is quite

important in our career this is not to uh i i learned it the hard way because if you are keeping quiet about not demonstrating what you can do and what you're capable of people won't know so it's good to share that knowledge and also let people know that what you're good at so self-promotion sometimes i think most of the time it's really helpful and i should i think we all should do that also um it helps you to achieve your goals and objectives some of the good times we've had last year when we could go out and party and do things so these are the lovely people in our community some of you may know and

and these are some of the leaders who helped she see so during uh our monthly mentoring calls or some people who came in uh on the platform and did some mentoring for all of us we had do this every month on third tuesday of the month you are welcome to join and also come and speak at the platform as well okay now what did we do during lockdown so we did quite a lot of things and one of the things was the shishiso boot camp we conducted during july it was a five-day boot camp and these people on the left uh on the right are the people who helped us achieve that project and it was a

five-day project we we gave 37 scholarships so meta defense labs was involved in planning and offering these scholarships to people most of them were 100 scholarships to individual who wants to get into cyber security there were also people who were already in cyber security who who joined this boot camp we had about close to 40 people joining for a week from 12 30 to 5 30 in the evening and teaching and sharing knowledge about cyber security personal development emotional intelligence and leadership and we on the map here it shows where people joined from so we we had participants from all over the pretty much a lot of the places in europe uk ireland america south africa and

india sri lanka and these were the speakers who volunteered for this so i think we volunteered for about um so the whole week it was about 25 hours and then to get this event running and prepared we spent months and months and planning and and all a lot of these team um putting in their time so that's about shi ciso and i want you to find us on online and join the community we have a slack community as well you can join and collaborate and uh so let's back to the topic here today i wanted you to think about hygiene um any time you could share the application rather than your screen if you think that's what might be it's gone

blocky again i'm really sorry that's all right i don't know why it's doing that um you mean the um powerpoint application yeah just the application that might do it yeah okay let me just start sharing boy balls

i'm not running any any stuff i don't know why it's taking

because that's the screen on the application because it looks like where the black boxes are coming up it looks like you're showing the screen yeah i'm sharing the screen yeah you should when you go into sharing settings there should be another option below where you can just share the powerpoint yeah that's what i was doing before weird okay yeah you want to try that one more time and just see if that helps okay oh i could just try and do the whole desktop if that tabs i don't know no it won't help because i did that earlier

how about now um worse it's gone oh no i think clyde's running too many applications here how big is the deck i know if you could just email it across to me and i'll share it for you yeah let me do that we've got plenty of times it's no problem of course so we're good with time then yeah yeah absolutely fine right give me one minute i'll try and reboot this again and i'll join back okay sure you you do your thing um we'll keep stuff going until you enter okay sorry about that guys no it's okay don't worry about it that's the whole nature of a b-sides it's something will go wrong don't worry

about it uh china you do you do you will keep everything running just rejoin see you in a bit then see you bye bye so while we're waiting uh johnny rejoining i think we've got some zoom pinions up 5 45-ish then a break and then tonight we have miss jackalope make ben do dares and hacker karaoke and i believe i believe i've heard from a very reliable source that you may be joining this karaoke possibly we'll see we need to we need to load you up on the booze we'll send you some gin it's fine it's all good um obviously we'll take that to close and happier will be running and the usual spot with a new totally

new people dm them for the for the credits of that if you want to keep drinking until 9am tomorrow morning and keeping keeping the spirit of b-sides alive everyone should just rock up wearing b-sides t-shirts would be quite funny how does it work karaoke like i've tried karaoke virtually and that was not a success so what are you using like for four tools i've tried karaoke physically and it's not been a success so you know oh i love karaoke it's like one thing that gets me more of my cheer than scavenger hunts is karaoke yeah as soon as you mentioned karaoke you did suddenly pop up and spring to life again yeah yeah so it's we've got you know the basic

tools as ever um if you can find a soundtrack without the singing on or if you want to sing over a song that's fine too um or just go for acapella i mean you know who needs music we've all got music on our heads yeah let's play together um any musicians on the call no comment i never said i was a good musician yeah oh no um no but there's definitely going to be some karaoke and when you say you know i have tried in it's not been a success success is dependent on the people watching new lists um so if it goes completely so everything goes completely wrong that's great for the audience so that's

yeah yeah we had like this zoom call every week with the colleagues and i kicked off the karaoke and it was like uh me spinning up the music and like everyone joining in and like uh all starting at a different moment in time where there was like this uh mind numbing craziness in my head and it was like i was not able to continue well that used to be the party trick you'd sing songs slightly out of time and it just gives you that kind of feel of oh something not right there yeah but if you're good enough you can keep it up through the entire song that is incredibly fun i think turning the audio off so you

don't care about the others is the trick here well i'm sure i'm sure we'll find out how exactly that's going to run i know exactly that's going to work yeah what time is this it's a good question we've got an hour of miss jackalope so that'll be from about 6 15 onwards so um bendy dares depends how many days we have so at worst i guess about 7 30 maybe maybe 7 45 okay

oh you're good man you're good and if anybody's interested ellis is running a workshop tomorrow uh what is it 12 45 bst i feel like it's one is that right one until quarter past four and it really will be in a big one yes it's yeah no honestly i love your streams and i love your stuff so um you explain things beautifully so it's definitely going to be worthwhile if you haven't already grabbed a ticket go on the eventbrite link um the eventbrite link should have been tweeted out it should also be on the slack i think it's also in the description somewhere go and register for the workshops is only 75 35 places or 30 something places available

um they've been slowly going down over the course of the day definitely register get in there and it's for the absolute beginner no uh knowledge prerequisites okay cool thanks enjoy hello oh my god that's beautiful is that better oh it's so much better much better wow okay oh wow okay that just needed a reboot then that's what it was yeah so let's go to the slide that i was on

i'm going to go off camera as well so that it doesn't take any can you see it better now yeah absolutely cool so today i want to talk about hygiene when you think about hygiene i'm sure you know what basic hygiene is by now especially with the koi 19 pandemic wash your hands to protect cells protect yourself and wear a mask to protect others i guess that's what we've been following so far just two simple things and when it comes to cyber hygiene what are the first things that comes to your mind so what do we need to do when it comes to cyber hygiene and protecting our data because it's all about protecting our

personal data and business data in this cyberspace right so if you think about what we are trying to achieve through cyber security are goals it's come down to three basic things confidentiality integrity and availability which are like your dnas of cyber security and what we need to look at is can something cause an a cause and confidentiality breach an integrity breach an availability breach which is we can also call it disclosure alteration or destruction so here i'm i've got about five things which we need to consider i think everyone's one must consider these five things as your basic cyber hygiene that is to secure your internet connection securing your devices and software control access to your data and devices

protect against viruses and other malware and keeping your devices and software up to date it sounds so simple but the challenge is is it really simple i don't think everyone can live up to making sure that we comply with these controls so let's get into what i was going to talk about today i don't know if you've heard about cyber essentials if you haven't i would suggest you google it cyber essential is a basic framework and it only talks about five technical controls it was originally introduced and backed it's a government uk government back scheme introduced by ncsc and now they have partnered with iasmi and it's a certification that everyone or every organization big or small must

consider when thinking about cyber essentials or cyber basic cyber hygiene what it does is it talks about five basic controls your firewalls uh that is in securing your internet connections then your secure configuration which is securing your devices and software and then user access control which is controlling access to your data and services then malware protection protecting against viruses and other malware like ransomware we hear about every day and then keeping your patches patch management is keeping your software and devices up to date why and why what does it do so why do we need cyber sensors now these are not my words these are some of the texts that ncsc has mentioned so what cyber essentials really does is

it helps you to get your cyber hygiene and so your maturity levels up if you don't even have a cyber security policy this is these are some basic controls that you can look into it doesn't matter whether your organization big or small how large it is you can still apply for this you can even apply for apply this to your home and if you look at it what does it stop it's not a risk management framework like iso 27001 that we all know it's just a control a technical control set nothing else and it doesn't talk about risk how you manage it these are really basic things that you must do like you you wearing your washing your hands

wearing your gloves and and wearing your seatbelts when you're driving so those are the basic things that we require so businesses of all types and shapes can have cyber essentials to protect their company from attacks and it can also help you to keep your devices and data safe also we we understand that not every company organization has specialist cyber security teams oit teams they have to you know first think about how do they make business so these skills doesn't come [Music] easily to some businesses so when you don't have that these are things that you can really look into and apply and then it goes into controlling your access how how are you uh going to give access to your

suppliers and partners so if you don't know what kind of suppliers to use then you can probably look at what kind of supplies has basic cyber hygiene so this can be used for your supply verification as well and it's been designed to be flexible taking into account all sides of businesses that's why it's it's really affect you when you apply it correctly but the question is are you applying it correctly now when you get that certification so it's easy to get a certification and once you get it you can demonstrate due diligence to your customers and suppliers and partners saying that you are actually taking uh your data seriously and you can also get listed that's

another nice thing to have you can get your company listed on the ncsc website to show that you are a cyber security certified cyber essential certified organization why this import this is so important is that now um especially with uh kovid in the past companies only had maybe one of his few branches right so the csos or the i.t managers and security managers only had to worry about those networks in there we go with 19 now a lot of people are working from home companies suddenly have thousands of branches now to worry about because thousand people working from home right so how do you now manage all that risk if you don't even have the basic cyber hygiene so

this is why this control can control set can help you to manage your remote workers so if you have people working from home uh you can ask them to apply some of these controls to their networks as well as their their home networks as well as their devices if they're using their own devices to access your business data and um have this as a basic hygiene control set and added to that you can also have you know other technical controls like having a vpn set up and things like that so digital transformation has gone the requirements of digital transformation has skyrocketed now and some of my day jobs is to consulting organizations how to how not

to do carboyity because a lot of the time the problems happen because people don't divide it properly and if we can apply some of these basic hygiene practices we can reduce some of that risks so how does an organization meet all these requirements so there's three steps um you have to understand your boundary the scope and then uh look at the control set apply these controls to your uh in connected devices it could it could be your employees working from home your branch offices or anyone who is connected to your network or internet who is accessing your data and then taking necessary steps to ensure that these matches are applied now with iso 27001 you can choose your

control set often so that's why people don't really follow that properly because they can even get iso 27000 badge for the corner cabinet and say yes we got iso 2700 run so in this case the scope is really important so i i always recommend um applying this certificate uh framework for the whole organization because if you have users from all over the world logging in to access your data then all those endpoints needs to be secured if you're not providing secured securely built endpoint devices or doesn't have vpns and all these other access control uh setup then you are depending on somebody else's laptop or internet connection and you don't know who's accessing this who's looking at this data there are a

lot of risks that come come with it so having these kind of basic controls really help in managing risks and and a company can go into a certification body like us we are a certification body and then once they go through this process then they submit their answers and it gets assigned to someone like me a cyber essentials assessor and then we mark it fail or pass or fail now this is a bit of a rant so how does it work now in the industry i've seen i've been working with different cultures and different industries and what i often see is we can't avoid it anymore it's impossible right and and a lot of the businesses are still trying to reach

this kind of basic regulatory compliance and cyber essentials compliance of hygiene compliances and i see there is companies with very advanced risk management approaches and there's companies who doesn't even have the basics like a security policy even so how do you now bridge this gap because you know there's the supply chain and all these big companies can be uh hiring these smaller companies and and medium-sized companies to provide businesses services the government does that so everyone's relying on each other's services right so if you don't if you have these massive gaps within your suppliers and and your partners now can you easily manage your data protection side of things it's very difficult so my my uh challenge now

is how do we bridge this gap you know how do we support the companies who has a very low security posture to uh you know get to somewhere and and that's why i go on about talking about cyber essentials because if you don't have the basic at least get get that in place and and the disappointing part is there's still so many companies treating security as a tick box exercise and it's it's a very challenging thing for us security people because it frustrates us right and and and and the most disappointing is there are so many um so-called security professionals still enabling that so as an assessor i see how how so many companies try to uh even cheat

this simple framework you know submitting uh sometimes strong answers and not really properly implementing these controls which i will not go into details but unfortunately it's still a tick box exercise for many and and the sad part like i said is how the so-called security profession is enabling this behavior because the only um it's sometimes i i see that um you know when a company has to bid for a contract or a public sector project that's when they remember cyber essentials one of the requirements for public sector is if you're providing services to uk public sector you must have cyber essentials so some of these businesses when they realize oh we are willing for this

project and suddenly oh we need cyber essentials let's go and get it buy the certificate in 24 hours how does it help because you know you're just cheating people right in that way if you're going for a certification just to tick that box who are you fitting so this kind of basic control should be your baseline and for your cyber hygiene as security professionals we all have a responsibility to apply them correctly to support business resilience be proactive so you can prevent things like ransomware now let's look at trust if you don't um build trust how do we business it's it's all about trust right starting at home to uh to work to community to your industry

our relationships are good relations good relationships are based on trust but if we try to cheat our way into things it's only going to get difficult in future and you will feel this is a certain feel like this with the certain organizations like if you um say yes this company has cyber essentials so let's get the master supplier and then later down the line something goes wrong and then you realize actually they haven't really applied the controls properly and that's why uh this breach happened i've i've had companies reach out to us where uh they they claimed to have a lot of security and and then suddenly ransomware hit but what has happened was that

the the controls they claim to say that you they have implemented hasn't implemented properly so it's really important i cannot stress this enough that if you want to build trust with other organizations and new community you need to do this properly implement these cyber hygiene controls properly and and when it comes to trust it's not just that uh all our relationships are based on trust you know from your partner to your family to your community so we need to think about trust building trust with our peers as well and that's really important when it comes to being an emotionally intelligent cyber security leader as she sees so preacher

and this is how i sometimes feel when i talk to some businesses you won't feel like you're gonna go and strangle them because they haven't done security properly and then your eq kicks in thinking oh you can't do that no we as security people we can't go and do the police work or the uh blame games we have to enable them and that's that's something that we need to practice uh security professionals need to understand how we gain trust that is helping businesses to uh make good security into whatever we do so secure by design approach is really important in everything we do and and and this is um and also convince business owners to think of

security as an investment to build trust i grew up in my in this industry learning how to build resilient and secure by design i.t solutions that includes it doesn't need to be security as a separate element sorry what i meant was it doesn't need to have security as a separate element but if you're building it infrastructures which are secure by design you then think about these things you know how do you enable confidentiality how do you make sure that data is it can be trusted the integrity and how do you make sure that it's available when you need it to be that includes your high availability elements redundancy and all these aspects fall tolerance built

into your it infrastructures and backup strategies all those things has to be considered when you're building proper i.t solutions when you don't have these things that's where things can go wrong and patching i cannot stress enough how many times i see people don't patch enough and i know when when it comes to large organizations it's very difficult to keep a 14-day days patching cycle to you know patch all your devices if you're a larger enterprise but if you build this from ground up with security in place then these kind of practices and processes can be not hard to follow and not just patching software device firmware level to os levels everything has to be patched and

using properly supported hardware and software is also crucial now how can we fix this issue i see the biggest the most important thing is leadership and i'm sure you know who is in this picture lewis hamilton and mercedes petronas f1t one of my favorite teams and why i like this is i've shared this on public asset this is one of my favorite slides i make sure i try and put this slide in every talk i do because i find it so important and kind of stressed enough so lewis hamilton and mercedes team one are the six times were f1 world champions and on their way to uh getting the seventh i guess a few more races to go now that's good

leadership and at individual level and organizational level they are one of my favorite teams i really admire toto wolff the the team principal of the fun team and some of these uh points are actually from toto's interviews i've watched i believe that good leaders must understand and communicate their vision strategy and goals and objectives to every employee in the organization it's really important communicator communication is where we really mess things up if you don't understand something how can you communicate you can't so it's really important that you understand what we are trying to do why we are trying to do it and then communicating that is also crucially important a lot of the problems happen because of

lack of communication this is something i learn every day in my business and with my customers if you don't communicate clearly things can change things doesn't happen and and then problems start then authenticity you know be authentic and honest and open leaders can uh demonstrate a lot of these through being authentic leaders leaders and i know some in the in the past this wasn't the traditional method you know uh it can be frowned upon if you try to say what you think or you know if you try to be authentic at the workplace but i think authentic leadership is really important and also take accountability take responsibility admit your own faults these are really important then you're

setting a good example for people who who are following you and create a no blame culture i say it or um in here i say blame the problem not the person that way you are creating that uh avoiding that toxic culture blame culture that can happen uh create problems in the organization then when you see something you address it and fix it so that's why seats say it fix it uh motor so in my organization also when when we have things going wrong someone has to say it and and and see it say it and then we fix it if someone waited until the things go wrong and then come up with excuses that's not good

because you have to make sure that you get a reason to fix things and then not wait until it becomes an excuse and then eq eq is emotional intelligence if you don't know about eq i suggest you google it invest your time to learn eq because it's so important in everything we do some people it comes to them naturally some people we don't don't so an emotional intelligence you can learn that you learn that skill it's not like where you go on a week's course and then suddenly you have technical skill set with emotional intelligence it takes years and months to practice and also be good at it so more you invest in it the better you

get better it is for you to understand your own feelings because we need to be able to understand our own feelings and emotions so that we know how to react to situations so self-awareness is really important then understanding how you manage those emotions so if someone comes and yells at you are you gonna what are you gonna do are you gonna get angry sad upset cry or punch them in the face so those things are feelings that you have so if you are self-aware if you can understand the feelings that's going through your head you can manage how you react to situations so that's why understanding how you manage those emotions is important it's called self

management then understand oth others try and put yourself in other people's shoes uh where they understand where they're coming from and and that's called the social awareness in eq then understanding how you can manage those relationships better so you have this knowledge now you can understand yourself you know how to behave you know how other people feel and where they're coming from you put you can put yourself in the issues you have empathy and now you can have better relationships because you can communicate and ask understand why you're doing this taking time to you know be emotionally intelligent is really important and especially when it comes to neurodiverse people it's really important how to understanding your co-workers you know

how they feel because not everyone is the same we are all different we come from different backgrounds we come from different cultures and that's really important and finally not the last at least the empowerment and trust gives best performance you need to empower collaborate and help each other and that can achieve better performance within teams diversity another slide i've stolen from mercedes diversity is really important i don't think i need to talk too much about diversity here we've been talking about this quite a lot at she see so as well as in the industry we need diversity for innovation and we need diversity uh people from different backgrounds and cultures to fight the various threats and

cyber criminals and then improve productivity and understand our customers then again eq plays a big part when it comes to diversity next thing crown jewels knowing your crown use is so important when it comes to cyber security and and creating a good information security management program you need to know what you are protecting so you understand the impact of loss of damage then you can manage it better then the the uh the asset management you'll be surprised how many companies have a good asset management process programs as it registered asset owners you ask the questions no then sometimes they have physical asset registers but you have data asset registered or information asset registers i bet 50 of the organizations doesn't

do that so it's really important because all our data is in the in the cyber space now uh that includes our personal data as well as business data so if you're not protecting this if you don't know what your assets are then how are we going to apply these controls or protect them so the diamond here is the cullinan diamond and it's it's the largest gem quality rough diamond ever found i think it's these teeth the crown jewels here they're priceless pretty much so the culinary diamond itself was found in um from south africa in 1905. you can go google some of these they were they're worth billions but i would say they're priceless now and and the

the asset owners for this would be crowned now skill shortage so attracting and retaining brilliance is really important we need to have the right teams we need to have the right teams and the skill sets to be able to manage cyber threats in cyber attacks so try not to look for the unicorn i often see job applications where they're asking everything under the sun and you can't find that person so no wonder we have a skills problem right and and and what we say is be open to you know have uh inviting job descriptions and also looking for the right people the human skills uh and and making sure your human are the strongest link is really important

then the awareness awareness is so important and i'm not going to stress this enough because we all know as cyber security professionals how much awareness can play in helping us do our jobs as well as to stop cyber attacks so i always say cyber security is my responsibility cyber security is your responsibility and cyber security is your everyone's responsibility data transfers we are in a we are in a global village so our data is everywhere so we need to know um where our data is going so journey to cloud digital transformation supply chains uh all these regulations coming in to control uh how we manage our data so we need to really understand the the

important of information life cycle where the data is traveling to who's processing them who's look you know uh transferring them to further third parties and and making sure that we have the right practices in place to manage this personal data or any any important data and also the next one is the ai ai and machine learning is here so we need to uh consider these technologies there are so many uh that associates uh with ai and it also helps us to improve our processes detecting threats and attacks that you know uh that ai could do a lot of things in in in fast ways than humans can do so but the the other challenges that i feel

most people don't know what it's doing and how it's doing it so and then that's that this is some kind of a challenge with ai so we need to consider our security practices to adapt to these uh new technologies that is coming in and then the future of quantum computing uh so this is also a um you can say it's like the superpower next generation superpower of computing and at the moment uh we don't know uh or does not have a single status for society especially when it comes combined with ai how much powerful it can be and what kind of opportunities it can bring and what kind of threats it can bring and and and cryptography plays a massive

part in this so when you're designing and building your cyber security uh programs management management programs you need to consider these kind of technologies so if you don't do that and if you just go for that tick box exercise you're only going to have a full sense of security and it's same with us in personal level if you're just doing things to impress someone or just to show that yes you're doing this you're going to go for this certification because you want this get this job but you're not really applying that into getting the experience uh you're just collecting certifications it's just a false sense of you know uh security or or skill set or a

feeling that you will have and it can be a ticking bomb waiting to go off organizations because if you're only doing it for paper not really applying it then it's a matter of time and you know when things go wrong and i often say have that assumed breach mentality so that means you're probably being hacked right now you don't know it so and and that's why it's so important to make sure that whatever you do you understand you communicate collaborate and empower that's kind of my message here to make sure that whatever you're doing you understand it properly you know why you're doing it and you apply it correctly and then you communicate that to the

whole organization and and to parties which who are involved in that so everyone knows what to follow what kind of steps to take and then you work with everyone you can't be the party pooper just because your security you need to collaborate with your team you need to collaborate with your community you need to collaborate with your industry and and that's really important and then help each other empower each other and and that's the only way we can win this cyber war thank you and these are some of the ways that you can uh reach out to me i'm on linkedin and twitter meta defense labs in um you've got a website these are some of the websites

and and i would ask you to join the community as well if you follow the she sees so page on linkedin there is a link to join the community we have a slack community growing now and lots of fun things happening there thank you very much any questions