Cybersecurity Imposter Syndrome and Burnout

hey everybody Welcome to the panel discussion on burnout and imposter syndrome it's going to be led by V Danny devil many of you know it's going to be a discussion of three to four people with three outline questions specifically on how have or have not experienced imposter syndrome specific to cyber security hacking what courses that may be due to diversity or specifically cyber security hacking Niche and how not just to get into security but to stay in security and in the community give it up y'all thank you so much and thank you guys thank you everyone for being here I really appreciate your time and um biggest thank you to the panelists already but um yeah exactly what he said my name is V I go by Vanity double or just V my actual name is Victoria I do share it but I just go by V because I'm really bad with names so that's kind of the way um I wanted to talk about imposter syndrome and burnout in the hacking Community because I feel like it's something that maybe we need to talk about more as far as uh we have lots of resources and talks always at conferences like these are like how to get into security what um what what uh sorry what uh certifications to get what school to go to all those different things about getting in but then there's not a lot of people who talk about okay once you're in cyber security and you're a senior you've been in for 10 15 years and you still don't feel like you know you're doing or you know you're still like everyone going on Google and copying paste code and just like oh yep that's I did that and you know maybe not feeling the same level of accomplishment as if you had written in then not you know spiraling so um I wanted to do some introductions uh discuss uh about burnout imposter syndrome what's unique to the hacking community and then get right into the panelist questions a quick disclaimer any in all opinions expressed here are of my own and do not reflect my employer and I believe that is the same for my three panelists um I'm 10 years in cyber security I'm a GRC specialist and I also do VC so GRC work uh through my own LLC um I've done previous talks here at b-sides at Dallas hackers Association and a dc214 including things about facial recognition drag makeup NFC chips and Nails um data privacy and menstrual tracking apps as well as applying a threat model to an individual in a personal life as far as helping protect your own family's data and privacy I want to introduce uh Vicky or Victoria um I know Vicki from actually one of my first talks I had talked about facial recognition and drag makeup and how it can stop the um infrared cameras from actually recognizing you and why that's a good thing and we had some long discussions about makeup and inclusion in the community as well as you know Building A diversity to help support the community Victoria did you want to say a little about yourself oh [Music] no awesome um let me think um so yeah I am um a trans cow I think that's kind of where I come at it where you just kind of learn not to give a [ __ ] and when you get cancer you really don't give a [ __ ] and that's kind of my point kind of where I'm coming from um I've got a back ride in data science I've been a DBA but I also have kind of the cyber security background like doing things like yeah I really don't trust you I'm gonna kind of go a dick and finding all kinds of horrible holes and things on the blue side of things I haven't done red team um trying to think of anything really interesting um found a back door so I could chat into uh Elvira's chat in the 90s um I may have accidentally broken into the EPA in college accidentally may have allegedly um what else oh social engineering I'm a big proponent of social engineering and using practical jokes that are not malicious as a way to practice and expand your skill set and after the talk ask me about Lupe and some of my social engineering with preachers and people telling me try to selling the warranties extended warranties I've had some fun talks with those people next I wanted to introduce Ray known as Sensei hacker here in the community and I've known Rey through Dallas hackers Association we've had a lot of good conversations about different roles we've had in the industry and talking about how he's become a Sensei and mentor to a lot of folks in the community and I think that he has a really good perspective from that uh experience and have seen a lot of things so okay well yeah I've been on the security part of the packing for about 25 years now um built a couple of businesses I sold before I went all corporate and you know working for other people uh and I guess hacking hardware and things as long as I can remember I guess I was six years old I was taking Electronics apart and trying to solder them with the big Plumbing you know Southern gun and that didn't work very well on electronics but hey um I don't know I'm interested in just just about everything in hacking but what he's been really cool um be mentioned uh GHA it wasn't until kind of recently that's like three years that I kind of discovered that I can communicate locally rather than just online you know pbses or whatever back in the modem days and this has just been awesome getting to know all the people that's so cool thank you so much Ray and next I'd like to introduce Frankie I know Frankie from a previous workplace um we bonded over the fact that I had the same wig as her and this is back when I had a I was bald so I was occasionally wearing a wig because I was like oh I want long hair today and so we ended up actually talking about that in the proper way to glue down our wig and um but I've also known Frankie through her work in that company being a very big proponent and leader in the diversity space for huge large corporation um bringing in uh different monthly events for women for underserved communities and uh she now is a professional or they are now a professional comedian uh here in Dallas hosting House of Blues uh best persons of comedy nights on a very frequent basis hilarious show go ahead and attend um and it's also fun to be friends with a comedian who knows how to tell a joke and can then apply it in the most nerdy ways so Frankie thank you V that was awesome uh yeah that's how I met her also uh she fixed one of my eyelashes one day my nose falling off and I was like you're my friend forever because my whole red team just looked at me like crazy all day um but yeah I came from a network and web app uh pen testing background uh then they saw that I like to do extra things like not my job um and volunteer and they're like you know what you're good at being a strategist so I became a strategist and developed fintech's first women's cyber rotational development program and it's thriving um also women cyber security workshop for kids with Victoria a v that's fine and also Lindsay over here she was also part of the workshops way back when um but yeah uh this is why what I do now is uh comedy I said [ __ ] it oh can we curse I mean I don't think anyone here is going to be grossly offended probably You Gave Me puffed up Skittles all right if anyone's interested in uh actually Skittles uh we got a business idea that we formed here and made a business at lunch with with Quantum so I want 20 he's going to be at your local Farmer Market soon um so yeah that's a little bit about our panelists and thank you guys so much for being here I really appreciate it so what is burnout uh just to kind of level Set uh it's a syndrome conceptualized resulting in a chronic workplace stress doesn't always have to be workplace just to be very clear actually um that has not been successfully managed and it can be in three different dimensions be it uh feelings of energy depletion just sheer exhaustion fatigue increased mental uh distance from your job so kind of disassociation and depersonalization also feelings of negatism cynicism and reduced professional efficacy so how well you feel you're you're doing or how well you're actually doing potentially in your your role imposter syndrome can be defined as a collection of feelings and of inadequacy so uh despite uh evidence success so it's kind of like you know you're having a really good quarter uh your boss is like oh you're doing amazing uh you get you know above Meats uh expectations and you're just like Oh I thought you were gonna fire me I thought I was doing so bad that uh and that happened to me this summer I genuinely went into my uh mid-year review I'm like oh my God I'm gonna be put on a pip what is it process Improvement plan or something personal Improvement plan hopefully um but yeah so it's not always a good thing if you're in like corporate to be put on that you know it is like the next step to eventually being potentially laid off essentially or what have you and so I'm I'm thinking I'm like I'm doing terrible I messed this up I messed this process up and then I go into the meeting and she's like you're doing a above and beyond and we're looking at potentially uh giving you a raise like next year I'm like are we looking at the same stuff so you know perception plays a lot into imposter syndrome uh it's not necessarily someone who feels like they don't belong in the community or the the role if they're not actually performing if you're just you know not good this is specific to evidence successfully oh nope cool that's not thank you guys what no oh my goodness where'd it go reader messages real quick nothing interesting don't worry just social scary numbers you know I just text them um so that's what burnout and imposter syndrome is um things that cause burnout in particular as a combination of stress versus stressors um this goes into uh stress causing a fight or flight or freeze reaction in your body when the stressor uh stress and stressor are working against you they can be work stressors Financial stressors emotional stressors so like in your relationships or dealing with bosses dealing with co-workers um not getting paid enough or feeling like you're overpaid sometimes for your role that that is a challenge for some people um then that's kind of uh what then leads to burnout the constant building of these stress and stressors and not managing them there's actually 12 stages um you know typically it actually starts really good you just have excess drive and ambition you're really you know go-getter and you want to sign up for everything at your job you want to say yes to everything um you get signed up for things voluntold and you want to prove above and beyond but then push yourself harder to work neglecting your own needs maybe you're staying up later maybe you're not eating as well you know we've all had those days probably you're you're working and you just don't have time to even go to the restroom because you have back-to-back meetings [Music] um then you go to like blaming uh others for uh the stress you're under all the way down through feeling detached inner emptiness or anxiety losing meaning that depersonalization feeling like you've lost yourself and your passion to depression and mental and or physical flaps uh which can actually lead to Serious heart issues long term so how we see it in cyber security or how I've seen it in cyber security is multitude of ways which is why I wanted to bring a panel and talk about the different experiences they've had with these uh challenges in their careers and what they've seen um personally I've felt imposter syndrome in the sense that I've never felt technical enough so kind of like hey I'm presenting at a hacking convention or conference and I'm just like I don't know what some of these panelists are even talking about when they're going into all these containers and I'm just like I'm just like I don't do I don't do coding I'm not Technical and my friend who couldn't be here today Chuck he uh actually kind of uh leaned into like no you are technical you've talked about these things again that imposter syndrome of not feeling like you're fulfilling what you're expecting to get or holding yourself to a higher standard um so yeah we're gonna go ahead and just jump into the panelists questions and let them speak to their experiences um and the first question will start off with Frankie have you ever experienced a burnout or imposter syndrome in your career and how is that uh affect your perception of working and information cyber security all right a minute and a half all right something like that [Music] that's okay no yes to all the things so um I will say this uh it got to a point where uh I was working on my computer 6 a.m to 3 A.M meetings globally and I felt the right side of my face slump right and you know what I still didn't get it checked out at the time it's insane and what you're doing you're so hyper focused especially if you're neurodivergent like myself you you get hyper focused and you're like I got to get the work done gotta especially before uh the report of your uh ratings and reviews and um and quite honestly I did not know I was pregnant at the time I Lost My Baby after a month so that's when I knew okay I am working too hard yes I am achieving and all this and getting all these things but I did not even realize and get to check in with my own self and my body um and make that Paramount but I made my employer the initiatives the the goals that I had set Paramount and uh so yeah short answer is yes yeah thank you holy [ __ ] follow that I don't know if I can follow that uh oh my God I'm gonna go to the room and cry I'll be back a little later um so yeah I'm gonna come at it a little bit different um my experience has been hey we need to fix X hey we need to fix y hey you're gonna get hacked hey I did a Security review hey why are there why is there nearly 40 million dollars missing from your account yeah that's been my experience I worked for a company which I won't say I did a Security review my first week in four months later they were hacked through social engineering someone sent them malware changed the wiring instructions on a blown and that money went to a Eastern European bank and nobody noticed so my experience has been as in a data professional say hey we need to fix this and nobody listens so the way I keep my blood pressure down is I can give you all the information but I can't lead an ass to water and make them drink um and you just gotta let it go that's been my thing and if it bothers you too much you change jobs and you know as a data professional I've done that a lot and it's been very rewarding and actually ironically the job I have now I I thought I was applying for Akamai yeah was it it was a different company and it's actually a really good company and I love it um but you know I mean you just kind of deal with it and we've got all kinds of problems and the big thing is that I deal with is you never let go of a crisis that's change that's when you take you give them the data you push it and say hey this is the time we need to move that's been my experience never waste a crisis because I've always been in the team that says hey we need to fix this we need to do this we need to do that we can show you all kinds of security holes but if no one wants to fix it it doesn't get fixed until someone wires 20 million dollars to you know Eastern European countries and there's nothing you can do about it yeah Frank you guys win this round 1 000 points um thank you but yeah I uh my probably my biggest imposter syndrome moment was when I bailed out of a multi-million dollar deal that I had put together I assembled some of the the top Business Leaders back in the at the time on the internet this is back in the late 90s when the internet was small um and you know I put together some some top leaders and we were all going to get a cut Edition and I just kind of bailed out because eventually they're going to figure out that you know I'm not a big shot like they are ah that was incredibly incredibly stupid um and that's been the next 10 years probably um you know feeling that imposter syndrome well I was developing standards I was doing you know doing good work but just I guess there we go they shouldn't be going to sleep a little bit hey it wouldn't hurt to uh touch the touchpad every now and again just for fun um where the heck were oh yes um what was the multi-million dollar deal for was it for an ISP or something or um essentially it was a if you did a top eight who's who of the online porn industry fight everybody in the room that did all the different parts of porn and we basically did a deal where we were gonna get like five to ten percent of everybody else's money and split it so yeah so we basically get like five to ten percent of all the foreign money ever made but yeah um we're good we're going somewhere uh yeah anyway thank you but yeah so that potentially was led to the fact or you know that happened partially because you thought like well I'm not a big shot but yeah yeah I'm like okay you guys are the big shot sure I put the deal together but you guys are the big shout out y'all just go hide in the corner um and I spent the next 10 years hiding in the corner it's like when when I spoke at my third grade daughter's school for like career day or whatever and I'm like I'm a hacker and all the kids are like and I felt the same way even though I've been doing it five ten years it's like oh but real hackers are so cool like that's not me uh until I actually got connected to the local community and got to know some local hackers and like we speak the same language and play with the same toys and like I am one of you guys yeah which was so cool absolutely so like before the Imposter syndrome you know we talk about impossible it's been trending um I I'd like to look at it differently because it feels like you're speaking negative over your life um maybe it's the intellectual elitism that you faced in the workplace and there's only one way of learning or one way of working with someone that they expect from you um it's not I feel like one for example I wanted to train a different way for cyber security education and this particular person a white man uh wanted to make sure that the learning track was exactly the way he learned it was 50 11 books I said sir not everybody's gonna read this why why don't we add some video games why don't we add some tactical learning something to be accessible um but I I got shut down and I thought damn I I guess I'm not a smart assistant and uh I just took that on and embraced it instead of saying nah I could see things with a different perspective than he can um and uh that's been my whole career I think a carry if he's here in the room um he's sat down with me many times to mentor and um me and hacking and everything like that but I just learned differently and I I took down three uh database centers all at once through a nice nmap scan that's found now but if their servers were whack so but anyways you know it anyways that's that's the end of that I think you touched on something critical there that um I want to kind of expand on it and take it in a different direction um that I think it's true for me and I know it's true from for some friends of mine um like recalculate you talked a minute ago about you know feeling like you weren't really one of us or whatever because you know you're not down in the code in the catch skills right and you know I have felt the same way because people talk about these policies giac or whatever the hell that is I have no idea what that is I can write assembly code right I can get in get into the firmware do whatever the hell you want to do the stuff she talks about this she works on every day happy with I don't freaking understand and I think that's we could probably come up with a delicate different groups here if not 50 different groups it's all the different things that's the thing about security yeah it's everybody has different skills different idea