BSides Vancouver 2015 - Keynote: Mark Weinstein - Reality Check: Does Privacy Truly Matter Today?

what's happening in Silicon Valley let's go over here let's buffer up this video and hang on one sec while this thing buffers it was buffered it's buffered again so let's talk a little bit about what I call the Privacy Revolution which is just starting so you guys are all part of this you know and on the technology side I want to just you know come clean right so I'm the CEO of miwi I'm the founder of miwi I don't code so I'm not an engineer I'm more of a Visionary you know CEO executive I write in Huffington Post about privacy I have an extensive column there sir Tim berners-lee is one of our the advisors

of me we as the shareholder in miwi he's an advisor Tim and I both think that privacy is critically important but we're you know I want to have this conversation today about really even if we think that it doesn't matter and what can we do about it so first let's watch a quick little it's a one minute video see if we get the volume this is our time

we play Without Limits eight without rules are not for sale we connect with the whole world every idea we've shaped every relationship we've cultivated belongs to us we demand the freedom to be our uncensored selves and when something challenges that we change it together this is our time [Music] let's start a revolution [Music]

let's me wait Join the Revolution at meiwi.com cool that is an introduction to what I've sort of devoted my whole life to for the last four years um in 2010 when Mr Zuckerberg said privacy is a social Norm of the past um I don't know if any of you watched the video but there's an interview where Mark Zuckerberg says we just changed the Privacy policies for 350 million people privacy is a social Norm of the past having been one of the early founders of social media I built a company called supergroup superfamily.com superfriends.com in 1998. we were PC Magazine top 100 company then I got a little pissed off because just like Tim berners-lee who

invented the web he's the true inventor of the World Wide Web just like as Tim invented it so that communication could happen the idea was that communication could happen not that the whole world could spy in US so not that privacy would become something of the past so anyway that's what I'm doing today and I put this screen up with the Fourth Amendment today just sort of and thank goodness that the founding forefathers of the United States you know saw something like this to be important they had no idea that this amendment would become pivotal to a conversation you know nearly 300 years later 200 you know 40 years later so but this is really you know sort of the linchpin

that everybody is sort of standing on right now is does the Fourth Amendment have teeth and beyond that the uh you know the early founders of democracy never envisioned that it would be corporations that would be on the front lines of uh you know of egregious Data Mining and spying and sharing data about us in ways that are really unforetold and I know some of you in the room manage data managing data is really important because there are obviously some really great uses of data and very important uses of data so um but you know what's happening what's happening in the world is you know what our conversation is about today so um now you know when we look at

the line that's been crossed um you know and you don't have to dig too far to look at what's happened with Google um you know in their whole and I've written a lot about this in HuffPost too but these are the data all the data up here is from you know Wall Street Journal great sources um so but we all know these are factual Google's been fine many times actually around the world um for you know sort of breaking the law spying you know when they did Google Maps I don't know if you guys know this but when they drove around mapping out our houses in the world which is a great tool they also

um rather intentionally stole our passwords and our networks and things like that and they got you know they were caught they were fine you know tens of millions of dollars for that in fact most recently they were fined I think a year and a half ago in Germany for that so you know there's a there's still a sort of a tale to the court cases around that we know last year Facebook uh you know did their psychological experiment but we also know that if you're using Facebook or Google that they're what's called curating your feed because they know everything about you so even on a search if you and a buddy do a Google search you're going to get a different

hierarchy of results based on what Google knows about you and what they think you're going to find most interesting so it's not you know a nice clean impartial search anymore so even our information you know same thing at Facebook you guys probably know this and I use the word guys for men and women in the audience so thank you for uh you know being patient with me when I just say you guys um but Facebook curates our feed every day so you know they're always adjusting what you see on your wall what you see in your groups based on the algorithms they have analyzing you personally so there's there's been some real changes here but you know the the challenges of

data go farther um you know just uh in terms of the open communication kids are bullied social media sites are used for you know sex trafficking bad guys use social media because it's so open College admissions employers and some of you might also employ it after all the data is there and so you know we're researching people we're working with people were dating people were looking at hiring Etc so there's there's obviously there's a lot of data and then there's some unfortunately some negative results to these this open World um you know kids uh you know they what almost 50 percent of kids get Cyber Bullied um and so some of these open platforms uh even the newer ones like Yik Yak

which is you know really the rage I don't know if yukx taken off in Canada but these anonymous apps which you know can be a lot of fun but also there's there's a downside to it um cyber bullying is very real and if any of you have children and we all were once children ourselves uh you know that bullying is very real and happens and today with um social media it can happen in a lot more nefarious ways unfortunately so you know online tracking is a very real thing you know most of us know better involved in it the amount of data you know was is staggering to most people outside of this room so you know we're in the room together

most of you know and may even be involved with with data management Security Management hack management so you know how much data there is today the consumer really doesn't understand when we tell them that they're 1500 points of data about each one of us that are being transacted you know with the data Brokers um that's a really remarkable data point I'm I'm not even sure what 1500 points of data on any of us could look like but it's there you know the way we shop the way we think the topics we look at the searches that we do everything about us everywhere you know that you spend money in anything you're looking at it's incredible

so what we end up with is the whole world is now worried about privacy and the Press has done a remarkable job of heightening this so where two years ago um you know how many of you maybe have teenagers as kids right so uh you know several people a bunch of people in the room um now two years ago if I if I said to you you know are your kids worried about privacy at all 100 would have said no no way they don't care today if the numbers are creeping up it's not really a creep it's actually pretty remarkable it's somewhere between 30 and 50 percent of young people I have a much greater

awareness and in that that bank you know many of them think that Facebook has become creepy um or something you know like that and they're worried about it and then if you have younger kids you know 13 14 15. that's actually the generation that is emerging as privacy aware from the get-go so um there's a lot you know and I also threw up the study here uh the Princeton study the Facebook study Princeton University did um and how many of you have heard about this study before it's not new news it's it's been out for over a year now and Facebook spent you know millions of dollars in public relations to undermine the study but in the meantime I think the best

evidence is their acquisition of Instagram a few years ago WhatsApp uh Etc you know so they're they're uh you know they're playing offense because they know that this is going to happen um so it's it's an interesting phenomenon as we watch Princeton actually used a disease model to look at how a disease replicates and then disappears from a culture and also they study what happened to Myspace so now we all know you know or and I believe that Facebook is not going to fail there are big companies they have Deep Pockets but I think Facebook the way we know it is going to you know change rapidly as Facebook has become uncool um and I'm cool is what actually you

know killed Myspace so as soon as you didn't have to be there as soon as it was no longer cool to be there um there's this rapid fall off which is what the Princeton study analyzed so it's very interesting um you know just to watch whether in fact this happens they they predicted that sometime later in 2015 it would start and then it would be very rapid but we'll see uh what happens I just find it to be a very interesting study especially in light of the fact that most Facebook users don't trust Facebook and for good reason I just wrote an article last week in info security about their most recent privacy policy change

where they they went to this plain English and we'll talk about that later it's coming up in the slides so that they could get more data from us now sir Tim berners-lee really an incredible man truly a genius if you ever have a chance to to meet with him see him Tim is really he's very heroic um and he's also you know in his career he's continued to work in sort of the non-profit World um you know he hasn't uh egregiously monetized his invention it's all shared with the world of course and Tim is calling for this Magna Carta about you know what can we do you know he wants a web where he's not spied on

where there's no censorship and you know I'm a strong Advocate uh you know for what Tim believes in um and he became an early beta tester of miwi and started sending us uh you know feedbacks and we were like no way couldn't possibly be Tim berners-lee so you know we would get these these feedbacks through our feedback loop we're encouraging our beta users to to send us all this feedback and we started getting feedback from a guy Tim berners-lee so and you know our engineering team we would talk and go couldn't be but we have to be polite so whoever this guy is we'll we'll give him a nice pleasant you know a response and

um which we did um and this guy kept on sending us feedback and one of the first things that uh that you know this fellow asked for was downloadable content but easily downloadable like take your content with you every day um you know and have it just disappear off our servers as fast as possible so and we built that um and then last year on uh it was March March 11th 2014. uh Tim did an interview and CNET on CNET and it was a print interview and the only company you talked about was our corporations called Scruples which is well we did our beta project under that brand um and we were like oh my God

that's Tim berners-lee he's talking about us that was Tim berners-lee giving us feedback so we got in touch with Tim and today he's uh you know he's a key advisor as we look at you know important things to do with technology at miwi and the preservation of privacy if such a thing exists which we will continue to talk about this morning now the other Tim has jumped into The Fray so anybody uh Apple users anybody uh you know iPhone Mac right so um and frankly I was a Windows guy because Microsoft isn't too bad on privacy if you look at the relativity of privacy the Googles the Facebooks um and recently Mr cook has become an

outspoken Advocate vocal advocate for privacy and I had the fortunate uh you know happenstance to to meet him immediately after which I went to the Apple Store hence the MacBook Pro that's right here this is uh he's a remarkable man and uh the really great thing about Tim Cook is he believes what he says he was very clear with me that he believes everything that he's saying about privacy and he's going to steer that ship correctly when it comes to the data mining and I don't know if you guys saw this I wrote a lot about this in my health post column about the battle in the United States that ensued uh when Tim Cook you know made this statement

and then um uh Eric Schmidt got really pissed off so Eric Schmidt went on cnbc's Squawk Box and you know criticized Cook's products and said he didn't know what he was talking about and then Mark Zuckerberg also got into it you can uh you know if you ever curious to see that just an FYI you can just Google me Google me use DuckDuckGo uh you know look for me DuckDuckGo or X quick and at HuffPost just go to HuffPost and do a search for me and you can see these really fun stories about uh Tim Cook Eric Schmidt and Mark Zuckerberg and I really respect Tim Cook because he's not afraid to speak his mind so and he

didn't boycott President Obama when President Obama came to Silicon Valley about about a month ago like Zuckerberg and Schmidt did he went and spoke his mind about privacy again so um at least you know we've got a champion in Silicon Valley right now uh you know on on one of the big uh big platforms um you know we know what's happening so the nefarious um you know spying you know from your phones to your televisions to Nest inside your house um you know to the OBD2 computers inside your cars so you know to the cameras outside on the streets you know there's a lot of data about us everywhere today um and I think you know most of you may

have followed the story recently with Samsung and LG where they uh you know had uh they were listening not just watching but they were listening and they were feeding us they were listening inside your house and giving all that voice data to third party supposedly to analyze for purposes of voice commands for the TV but they push it outside of their company these these voice packets and you know they could turn it on and off at will so there's a lot of this going on there's also this whole conversation about new kinds of cookies so because cookies are easy to identify we've got um a really cool little app on our homepage called The miwi Challenge where you sort

of click and see are using LinkedIn or using Google are you at Pinterest are you Instagram and how many cookies are just following you right there so you know companies are getting Savvy to to how easy it might be now to start blocking cookies lots of places that can do it even a browser like Tor can do it so there are new ways and some of you might even be helping engineer these things because you know there's part of our conversation this morning is about technology and whether it has an Integrity Compass a moral compass or not so um what happened recently now how many of you know that Facebook made a change their privacy policy Now

in America you know we have this incredible sport called uh you know a sporting event the Super Bowl um and the Friday before the Super Bowl Facebook made it change their privacy policy how many of you guys actually know that so a few and you guys right in our industry I would expect that most people in the world don't realize they think their privacy policy changes came much earlier in January but in fact this was a very interesting one because when Facebook acquired WhatsApp the Federal Trade Commission sent uh Zuckerberg and Kuma letter the CEOs of the companies and said you're not allowed to share this data in this deal so and if you do we're going to come

after you so they sat on it for a long long time and now they made this very discreet what's called a plain English change to their policies which actually allows them to start scraping data from WhatsApp get more data from Instagram Etc and be within the parameters of their own policies and sort of sidestep the Federal Trade Commission letter so we just this is what we published news about last week in info security so it's a fascinating change but people should really recognize that if Facebook and this is what we have to sort of educate the world at Facebook we're not the customer we're the product so when you shift your context of who are we you know we go to the

restaurant tonight we're the customer we're not the product that they're selling to the food vendors so we're actually the customer that they've got to prepare and serve us and take care of us so that we come back but at Facebook we're the product that they sell to the marketers and once you understand that contextual shift everything starts to make sense more about what happens at Facebook also what happens at Google Plus and Google Google Plus anybody using Google Plus okay two three four uh but Google Plus was really there was a lot of Journalism uh reports written when Google Plus launched that it was actually uh real purely a data play um and you know at this point

um you know it's one of those rip products uh that Google's launched over the years they just I don't think have the courage to actually shut it down but there are very few people using it Hangouts were cool if the technology would just work great but beyond that you know Google was really and and their internal documents show this too it was just about data because that's what these companies are about these guys are data Brokers um and you know of course data is Big Business and I know some of you guys here uh you know are using data and there are good ways to use data we're going to talk about this um now here's some false promises around

privacy trustee you know how many of your companies uh are trustee certified the show of hands anybody's companies trustee certified terms and conditions privacy policies good I'm glad your hands are down because as it turns out the trustee certification is not worth a hill of beans they were fined by the Federal Trade Commission about four months ago these are actually headlines of some of my columns in Huffington Post the FTC came down on trustee said that they actually never looked at thousands of privacy policies in terms and conditions they just kept on giving them their renewal certificates so Snapchat path Etc uh same thing same thing so unfortunately you know when we've been sold a bill of goods on privacy

it hasn't come true so Snapchat you guys know you know you're technical most you can probably hack into the phone and find all those sexting uh you know pictures and share them with some of your other friends so uh privacy in the news you know this is again the media keeps talking to us about it and so you know part of our jobs everybody in here is in privacy and security uh what do we do with all this information how do we explain this to our friends uh how do we make people feel comfortable about what's happening uh and what is happening um you know um and so this is just a sample of you

know some of the articles that are out in the news some things that I've written also um and then you know here's the you know my health post column here um so let's uh let's scroll back up for a second and what I want to do is we'll park it right here and let's talk about whether privacy really matters so um you know first of all sorry I got some notes there you know um how many of you think that privacy actually is important you know let's and don't worry whether you think it's dead or not okay so privacy is important let's say 90 of the room um and the other 10 have coffee in their

hands so now how many of you think that privacy still exists does privacy exist great okay and that's the 10 that didn't raise their hand before so um so really what we've got is most of us in the world think that privacy is important in this room and in fact maybe 25 of us today think that privacy still exists so now that's um that that can be a real challenge for the future so the question and there therefore you know the question for us and this is a really important question this is why um Tim berners-lee joined me we there's an inflection point in the history of the world and it's right now and we're in it

and that is the question of you know it's up to us to actually do something about this or it's up to us just to decide if there's something to do about it if privacy matters so now what you guys just said is yes privacy matters and no I don't think I have much of it anymore um and this is what concerns uh you know Tim and myself and probably most people in the room is what can we do especially in the headline this morning uh you know front page uh you know of the the Vancouver newspaper is the NSA spying on Canadian corporations uh never mind you know everybody else in the world that they're spying on so here we are in this

conversation about does privacy matter and how has you know the opening up the world change things so you know back in you know Mark Zuckerberg's been talking about in Facebook and every you know Eric Schmidt and it's much bigger than them right the open world the promise of the internet was this open connectedness so which we thought was really kind of cool we can you know talk to everybody around the world we can get real-time information Twitter is great for that by the way right real time what's happening much faster than a newspaper can get it to us and you know open as Zuckerberg said open means having access to more information more transparency being able

to share things and have a voice in the world and connected is helping to you know keep people in touch maintain empathy for each other around the world and bandwidth so the and we look at things like the Haitian earthquake in 2010 where the openness has helped us immensely you know the victims couldn't speak English right they could you know they only spoke Haitian Creole so Microsoft in five days when this information quickly got to Microsoft information trans transmitted so quickly and Microsoft very heroically in a five-day less than five days created a machine translation service that was in implemented you know in this sort of open world of being able to serve you know emergency crises around

the world through machine learning and they were able to then to listen to the victims you know the rescue workers right there could understand what the victims were saying about their injuries and about their pains and all of a sudden communication Could Happen which is critical uh to saving lives so machine learning you know has made airport screening you know more effective in terms of you know looking at the data analysis of who's buying what kind of a ticket is it a one-way did you just buy it did you pay cash for it you know creating algorithms that can get to that quickly so that you know those of us who can be you know TSA

certified can get through very fast and someone who might be more suspicious has to take a different route um you know machine learning is letting us predict outcomes of political elections with great accuracy um you know it's kind of like sometimes I find it's it's a little scary when you realize that you're just a statistic you know when you see your life unfold and you know you're sort of following the hurt um and um you know safety fraud programs some of you may be involved with eBay or Amazon uh and their safety fraud programs through machine learning have been great at identifying you know the fraudulent uh users Etc so um you know and even people in third

world countries communist countries oppressive regimes we're able to post things to share with the world what their experience is like so we could actually you know discover that we can help you know change so there's there are benefits to the openness of the world their benefits to this data being out there um and you know then we look at somebody like Julian Assange you guys are familiar with Julian Assange you know he's um you know he's he's world renowned um whether you know and I often talk about these guys like Snowden Assange um even Mr Zuckerberg I I respect Mr Zuckerberg what a great businessman uh what a Visionary and uh you know one incredible company you can't argue with

Facebook with a billion plus members in the world uh and what they've done for people so but the question is that as Julian Assange said in December um he said that you know this idea the concept of the internet a single Global homogeneous Network that enmeshes the world is the essence of a surveillance state um the internet was built in a surveillance friendly way you know um and that's that's how you know that's how it's evolved and there may have been Alternatives but they were ignored and so what we're looking at is there wasn't a lot of foresight and when we have this discussion this morning part of our two hours together we're going to have a

discussion about what can we do what what is it that we can do together you know if anything uh without going being too cynical because we really want to look at it's our opportunity at this point the internet is only 25 years old you know in the history of the world 25 years is nothing so I look at a company like Facebook that's 10 years old you know almost 11 years old in a 25 year old Now 26 year old internet and in the history of companies they're probably like 100 year old company so you know when you look at that that ratio of the internet's just 25 or 26 years old so there's a lot we can do so

part of what I want is as our conversation today as we look at this is putting cynicism aside what are the opportunities for us because technology is amoral think about it I would consider almost everybody in the room a technologist you know an inventor you know really a modern genius so I want you guys to think of yourselves as that you know whatever job you're in you know I always um I've talked about we're always the CEO of our lives and I've written some books on greatness and how you know we all Define our greatness but we're also the Geniuses because you know we're the engineers we're we're the change agents we're in the trenches you know we have

opinions about what's right and wrong and Technology does not have an opinion about what's right and wrong so technology is technology so we can't fault it there's nothing wrong with technology there's nothing inherently evil about technology technology is not even inherently good it's all how we use it it's all how we apply it so you know we want to look at this the idea that you know it could be that it's mindless and moving Google Glass you know it's just technology moving self-driving cars that's technology moving um you know these incredible phones that we have the dirt boxes that are in the news were in the news yesterday again um you know you guys know what a dirt

box is it's a or a stingray a more common phrase is stingray but in the United States we call them dirt boxes um so and that's actually you know in the Press that's actually what we call them um which is you know these these dummy um you know machines that you know that that mimic a cell phone tower and get your cell phone wherever you are to send the signal up to it um and now police departments around the United States are are attempting to uh you know to get these dirt boxes um and the problem with the dirt box or Stingray is they spy on everybody you know the idea is that there are

going to be tracking the bad guys that are around and that's what the Federal Marshals uh proposed the justice department when the justice department approved uh in sort of a back room way approved the use of these but the problem is they actually get data on virtually every American on where you are where your cell phone is you know and and your your movements so but again that's just a use of technology technology in and of itself doesn't have this moral compass doesn't have a privacy Compass doesn't have an Integrity Compass um and so um one of the things we've got to look at is you know how in the world can we give it that compass

in November I was uh on two panels at the gmic conference and I moderated one panel on education apps anybody involved in education apps here so okay all right that's good so you won't you then won't be offended when I tell you you know this conversation on the panel because I asked the panelists you know you're developing education apps that's great because you know we want to use technology to teach our kids now um you know what's your primary objective and the primary objective is to keep the kid on the app as long as possible now is that really good for our children for us is that good for a five-year-old you know an eight-year-old a

ten-year-old a 12 year old to be on an app as long as possible it well but and it's it but the kid doesn't realize that right right right and neither does the parent and you know they're being sold to us as this is good for your child and there's some some benefits even in the gaming world you know the gamers anybody gamers in here yeah all right so you know you want to put something fun and interesting and somewhat educational and then it just depends on on you know the engineering team and and uh the product people you know if there's actually some some kind of value and then of course we're deciding what that value is and if that

value is real or not is up to us to say that it is or not but this is that amorality of technology and also capitalism so because capitalism is a fascinating economic structure it's really a moral and there's no better place to see that than in China anybody been to China you know China I mean the they are incredible capitalists they're great and because their government they're they're very autocratic so they don't really have a say in the political direction of their country so they just get to be capitalists they get to be amoral capitalists they follow the law somewhat the government is relatively you know with all due respect to China it's well known that you know the government is

somewhat corrupt there's a lot of money in the government and relationships China is a relationship uh you know sort of capitalist Endeavor so very different from North America um you know the Chinese are all about their social relationships and and you know patting each other on the back for for capitalism but it's fascinating when you look at the amorality of capitalism which leads to you know one of the most polluted countries in the world and again pollution environmental degradation these things can be fixed by technology it also can be caused by technology this is that amorality of of Technology so um one of the guys in my team likes to call the internet our frenemy

so I don't know if you guys heard that phrase before it's like our friend and our enemy at the same time and I think people started to see social media that way um you know cameras cell phones dirt boxes um you know it's great for communication it's lousy for invasive behavior for bullying for stealing our Information Tracking our movements TVs listening to us you know cars your car knows exactly where you were and when you went over the speed limit you know it just does and insurance companies are now trying to get that information uh I don't know if you got it here but in America you know you can like go to a company called Progressive

and you can get them to do a plug-in uh really they're plugging into your OBD2 computer which Canadians and Americans have in their cars by law and they know everything about what you're doing when you're driving that car so this is before the anonymous car drives us itself so you know it's um maybe it's gotten a little too far and remember I'm a technology guy I love technology uh you know miwi is uh you know a great technology platform we're designing it to be Forbes already called us the next generation of communication technology um so you know and that's uh and we're not marketing by the way so um you know miwi is still an engineering team 30

people on an engineering team um just working making the product great as we think what the world wants is a great product it's not the Bill Gates days if uh you guys are old enough to remember Bill Gates most of you are he's still alive of course but um and most of you who are involved in Rolling Out product you know today consumers don't tolerate um you know poor products buggy products Bill Gates was really lucky in that regard I have great respect for Bill Gates and I think he lived in that era you know he was a businessman in that era when you could roll out really bad product and people stuck with you I mean

wouldn't that be a dream you know for all because everybody in here is engineering and security you know you guys are all how many of you are in your own companies show of hands so a lot of entrepreneurs in the room so and you guys know this right it's you know you can't whether your customer is a corporation or an individual you've got to deliver a great product today otherwise you know you don't have a second chance so um and digital profiles today you know are used more right so um you know healthcare.gov uses it you guys know uh in America healthcare.gov Obamacare there are clauses in their privacy policies so this is how far it's

gone healthcare.gov sometimes collects and uses your personally identifiable information pii if you made it available through third-party websites I'm reading this because these are direct quotes from healthcare.gov's privacy policy so if you have an account with a third party website and choose to like friend follow or comment certain pii associated with your account may be made available to healthcare.gov based on the privacy policy the third party website and your privacy settings within that website that's unbelievable so but this is how transparent the government is but no one is reading you know the 20-page privacy policy of healthcare.gov but what they are saying is that if you're complaining about your back at Facebook if you're Googling

about a mental issue or a physical issue if you're doing anything if you're having a beer with your friends and there's a picture we've got it and we may decide about your health worthiness Etc based on that also we all know that banks are doing that today also banks are deciding whether you can get a loan not based on how good you pay your bills but based on who you hang out with based on who your friends are and this is now becoming part of your credit score and also becoming part of the assessment of a bank now this is real right you guys know about this show of hands right you know about this yeah a

few people do this is real right and some of you may even be involved in this because the date is there and there we're just finding new ways of using the data so the challenge is technology is growing so fast it's out of control and we have to you know look at you know well what are we going to do with all this amazing technology and this question about the preservation of privacy so why is privacy important since we think that it is you know in the American government there was something called The Federalist Papers way back when in the 1700s um at the end of the 1700s early 1800s these the founding fathers um these were published anonymously

that could never happen today you know you couldn't publish something anonymously when Nelson Mandela met with the clerk you know Mandela was in jail for so many years and for five years the president of South Africa came to meet Mandela in jail nobody knew about it that couldn't happen today so you know this something we call the wisdom of privacy you know privacy it's hotly debated it's polarizing amongst ourselves uh does it matter you know people say I don't care I have nothing to hide but what if nothing to hide had nothing to do with it you know and what if we're we're so blessed right because we live in democracies what if you live somewhere else that's

not a democracy but of course you know we impact the whole world with what we do and we're not even looking at that so what if you're living in a country with an authoritarian regime you know somewhere where Prejudice and oppression are common and they get data about your health about your DNA about you know your political views about your religious views you know about your secret views that you're not speaking out to the world in public the way they can see it but based on what they can get the data that they can get this is very real so and this this is happening um and this is one of the problems with amoral technology and data collection it

also in America you know we know that um IRS targeted the Tea Party a couple years ago so and it's sort of like well wait a minute you know were they really doing something wrong and they were they're just looking getting day-to-day to data and then they could find out who's involved from data and then they could Target members of the tea party so if even in democracy which is actually not the most perfect government right because there's there's all kinds of influences there and they're run by people data can be used the wrong way so um you know this is where we look at you know the courts this is why I kept the Fourth Amendment up here because

this is almost like what we've got as as our grounding even though it was written you know really to protect um uh from British soldiers being in your house going through your things that's actually where this amendment is sourced originally and and um that's that's where it came from but you know we look at in December 2013 judge Leon uh said that our founding fathers would be aghast at how the government today encroaches on our personal uh Liberties when he made a ruling against the NSA um now I just want to dispel a myth about data being so effective at uncovering bad guys so in November I was at the pii any of you gone to Pia privacy identity

information conference um it's a great conference and um James Dempsey was there he's a key member of the privacy and civil liberties oversight board In America which is responsible for oversight of the nation's counter-terrorism programs now here's what he said when I hold this because I've got to read a quote directly so James said following the nsa's telephone program telephony spying program the section 215 bulk telephony metadata program after 13 years of spying and data collection has not uncovered one bad guy not uncovered one bad guy that we did not already know about 13 years all the phone records of all Americans 13 years not uncovered one bad guy that we didn't already know about

so you know when we look at this overuse we look at these these stingrays these dirt boxes we look at the over Reliance on data and we also know from the Boston Marathon bomber that we were alerted but our resources are so spread out you know that we're using so many resources to analyze data instead of using you know more traditional you know methods of of you know identifying bad guys so when somebody you know one of the Boston Marathon bombers when the fathers walked into one of our embassies and said you know my son's a problem you got to watch him we didn't have the resources to follow up on it so and I don't know if you guys anybody

see the article in New York Times on Sunday or see it retweeted uh you know a thousand places about Mark Zuckerberg in privacy so all right so the New York Times you know which is big in America um and there's this conversation about um all the guys in Silicon Valley and I live there too but you know I'm uh we're a startup so we live in a little dinky rented house startup that classic idea um but uh they all get ndas signed by anybody who works on their house and uh uh Mark's being sued Mark Zuckerberg is being sued by one of the vendors and as his lawyer wrote to the uh to the other

lawyer he says this is quote as your client Knows Mr Zuckerberg goes to Great Lengths to protect the privacy of his personal life oh so that got tweeted all over the world you know that's like okay and also have any of you seen terms and conditions May apply uh great movie um good I'm glad a bunch of you have seen this um Cullen hoback uh is a miwi advisor he's a good friend of mine it's an incredible film on how we've given away our privacy and what's happened and he chases Mr Zuckerberg around with a camera it's really fascinating to watch um watch him do this so it's on Netflix now and won a lot of awards uh it's a

really brilliant film on what happened when we weren't paying attention because we didn't intentionally do this right how many of you you know really intentionally gave up all of your privacy you know some we might have agreed for something but how many of you you know when you're using Google you know new from the start that Google was actually you know reading every word in your emails new from the start okay and that's you know like four percent of the room from the start so but for the rest for the average consumer they still actually don't know even though Google's admitted it's in their their terms and conditions um but people don't really understand this because it's different when you

know there's a creep that you can't see so but you know our grandparents and our great grandparents would have never ever uh allowed you know a creep you know a stranger to follow us around and learn everything about us it would have never happened right

exactly right it started that's right thank you what's your name Brody so a brody just said is sort of back in the day um The Exchange we didn't even understand that what the exchange was we just thought that uh they were you know innocuously looking at you know and sort of helping to to make our our email better uh more relevant but we didn't really understand the scope that you know they're actually reading every word and that this would now actually push out outside of their system into actually the whole world and this is where you can delete an email you know you can delete something you're writing you know a post on Facebook when

you're not finished with it um and you guys know we're in the technology business but Facebook's already captured it so that's already that's already living forever I mean Way Beyond your lifetime in my lifetime that's you know that's that's forever so um you know well what to do you know so this is the thing that I call the wisdom of privacy so you know privacy is actually inherently important is what I think obviously right you know even though this this question of does privacy matter and we saw early on it matters to virtually everybody in the room so the question for us is what to do about it um you know and I want to show you so

you know when miwi says we're private let's just take a look at so this is where um and you know Ann Kevorkian you know with her privacy by Design program she was running that uh gave us so here's something a quick something about about us so if you look up super groups you'll see who we were something about the books Dr Wolf is my partner he's a really cool guy so he runs the engineering team he was my number three hire in 1998 he's a PhD in Neuroscience from Penn he's a Chaos Theory expert he's a fractal expert he's very very cool these are just a couple of books that I've written on greatness um which by the way I don't Define so

don't worry I have no idea what greatness is uh for each one of us it's very individual um so and let me um so this is so when we start to Define how do we like explain what privacy is um and you know I don't we're not going to talk about me we per se I just want to talk about what what we believe privacy is so privacy to us is that you own your content we don't own it we have no claim over it so different than the other company so we're not a data company which is very interesting um you know in this data world um we don't use facial recognition we don't look at your loves and your likes

um you know we don't look at your friends we don't you know we don't have a data packet on you we have nothing um you know our sessions are encrypted uh it's right now impossible so if any of you guys crack the nut on encrypting you know 100 people in a group coming in from disparate points around the world sharing documents and videos of photos right now that's so cumbersome to encrypt um so you know the best encryption are really the one one-to-one or behind a firewall um but um you know and you delete your account anytime this is this is what privacy is and also this is what privacy is so we're the first company in the

world so part of the Visionary part of this is never mind the company but this is what we think people should be doing I've met with the chairwoman of the Federal Trade Commission Edith Ramirez you know I've met with some of the other commissioners you know if we change our privacy policy there's a clause says we're going to tell you and give you a link to delete your account every time we change our privacy policy so um you know we think that's ethical business you know why should we be able to just change and say by the way you can see the changes over here and here's a little pop-up message that we changed our privacy policy we don't do that

um this is what we call privacy by Design so um let's go back up to you know the um and there's a lot more I don't want to you know I'm not it's not a technology conversation this morning um and as my team tells me Mark you're not allowed to talk about our technology that much so I did once in an interview and they really got mad at me it's like you can't tell that you can't tell them exactly how we encrypt so you guys can appreciate that because you know you would tell me the same thing I'm like but you guys gave me the briefing um so what do we do uh privacy by Design is one thing

um transparency and plain English are not always the solution as we saw uh Tim berners-lee talks about the Magna Carta you know and this I think is really important this idea of a Magna Carta because the web and this is what Tim said recently said the web's kind of under increasing attack from governments and corporate influence and new rules are needed to protect the open neutral system so he says we need a global Constitution a Bill of Rights um you know for the web that we want now this is a different conversation the reason I want to steal the conversation here is because we can talk about the problem we can talk about you know oh man

there's no more privacy we can talk about you know better ways like the conference is doing which is very important of you know identifying a security breach of isolating a breach of you know different ways of protecting data um securing things like that but what we've really got to talk about is how do we transform the conversation about the right to privacy how do we give technology its Integrity compass and this is a big question and it's a big problem um because you know we've got to sort of alleviate some of the sort of ephemeral you know nature of what's Happening and we've got it we've got to find a way to give Integrity its Integrity Compass

now how are we going to do this in Washington DC for example when Sunday if any of you guys saw this on Sunday two very prominent Senators uh John McCain and Lindsey Graham said they don't even use the email I mean did you guys see this like they don't even use email and they're proud of it and these guys you know so I always say well we can't have the white-haired guys running our governments decide what's good and what's bad that's just not going to work and then these guys proudly proudly right this is 2015. proudly get on TV and they say email I don't even use email you got to be kidding me right so so

we've got to do something and it's going to it's going to have to come to us so you know this is our sort of Magna Carta call what I want to do this morning is you know two hours a long time for a keynote and I want to thank you guys for your patience as we sort of weave through the different parts of the problem in the conversation because really I don't like to talk I want to talk with us I want to have a conversation together about what is it that we can start to do how do we figure out how do we help Tim berners-lee and ourselves how do we start to you know articulate this Magna

Carta idea is it even possible how do we you know get get ourselves on a track and how you know it's a very complicated question like how can we decide what's the right educational app how much time a kid should spend on an app you know this it's just fraught with pitfalls but these guidelines I mean do we create guidelines for technology so that it has to protect privacy at a minimum uh do we create guidelines for technology so that it has to um you know not degrade the environment in a negative way I mean what do we do do we you know how can we give this is a sort of Magna Carta to technology

and I don't have the answers so this is why but I think this is actually going to emerge in the next few years as the most pressing question an issue and we don't want the white-haired guys that don't use email to create this Magna Carta also because you know we know the power of influence you know the fact that we're moving towards net neutrality and maintaining that is great uh there have been some good decisions that's because of people like us speaking out uh how many of you you know advocated in some way for net neutrality all right everybody in the room and somehow our voices can be heard so we've got to sort of figure out we

have to brainstorm and we're like the CEOs of technology in here so we've got to figure this out because it's not Technology's fault but we've got to figure out what the right pathway is for this idea this Magna Carta call of Tim berners-lee let's go down to Tim so what I want to do now is let's open it up let me see everything wow I want to thank you guys so that was that's the longest keynote I've ever given by the way because I really like to just interact you know I'd rather sit on the stage and talk with everybody it's actually a really fun way to do it because there's such topics and I'll facilitate so what

I want to do now is open this conversation up how do we let technology expand while having an Integrity Viewpoint that's not draconian you know how to have net neutrality that's not biased and enhances life protects privacy Etc uh so let's let's open it up and you know thank you very much um for you know being patient drinking your coffee and listening to me you know sort of rant on about the different parameters of the violations great and I think is there a mic to pass around uh or we're probably small enough you guys just yell out your questions okay great great thank you guys okay let's go can you stand up please thanks

okay so the rule is I say that um stand up again please sir and what's your name Howard thank you and thanks so sort of a guiding rule like you know part of the Magna Carta which would say what

right right that's right that's exactly what uh what Tim Cook said um do we have Alex I know if you're in the room but do we have microphone uh a microphone that can walk around okay great so let's let's uh if we can that's awesome all right who's got the mic okay great great who are you going to be our runner too no all right so who's gonna who's gonna can we have somebody just sort of pass the mic around so we've got to go over here right uh who's next um with a comment and this way um great over here great and here comes the mic so it's a small enough room we can sort of walk to

the mic too the speaker passes the mic to the mic great idea thank and thank you guys I'm glad we have a mic so we can all hear it that's great thank you very much maybe in relation to this gentleman's point but more more direct if you're not sucking the blood out of my body and selling it to everyone and their mother how is your product going to make a profit ah okay miwi all right are you asking about me we are in general about melee okay and and in general how other other products could follow that same model uh it's it's a actually it's a great question let me see if I can pull up

um I'll show you one one um let's see if we can get this um get off the screen for a minute so I can open up uh it's all right so uh we're locked on the screen so I'll just tell you so we have a patent-pending advertising model that's patent-pending around the world we haven't launched it yet we'll launch it in Q4 um and it's it's does its best through proxy servers and everything else and through the way you interact with it um that we have no idea we have no idea what you're interacting with it's very simple premise basically without you know going too much into the IP um you just choose your ad

you know and you choose what you want you go through a you know a selective system you choose your ad we have no idea The Advertiser doesn't really know anything until you take an action um you know if you take an action to to buy something then of course you have to start sharing more data um and you know we'll give our members tools to scrape uh the the data coming off their IP um so uh but that's just part of it because you know we have storage so Mewes like personal cloud so in me where you share photos videos discussions documents privacy mail chat rooms voice messaging and soon disappearing content that's all in our platform and you share

that one-to-one in ad hoc groups or in formalized groups and we've already seen migration of big Facebook groups coming over and we don't because we don't curate we don't we're not spying on you we don't curate your feed we don't do any of that stuff but also all your content is stored in what we call My Cloud and you can buy up to 500 gigs we also have an app store that's going to launch in Q3 so if you're a group in addition to that maybe you're a sports team how many hockey players are in here so yeah a bunch of you know whatever your sport is or your kids sports will have about 10 sports teams apps in there

we have like a recipe book for you know people want to share recipes play dates scheduling apps uh all kinds of all kinds of fun apps that are built over our API that are approved by us that are put in our store for our members this adds value to your life the whole idea about miwi is it's serving you you know who's the customer I'm the customer you're the customer um we also have a miwi premium so we're going to compete directly with Facebook fan pages and Facebook groups there's 500 million Facebook groups right now so that's launching actually that's our our first uh Enterprise product and that's launching in July and right behind that

will be miwi office companies already use miwi but we'll have a dedicated miway office product and then next year in 2016 we'll be able to install miwi behind the firewall in your company so uh so you know and this is where meeting with chairwoman Ramirez the FTC it's like yeah you can make money without spying and scraping and doing it you know so just that's how capitalism has always worked so um so I hope that answers your question absolutely thank you over here

by the way that's my favorite question about miwi is the first thing we ever did the first day March 2nd 2011. um we flip charted that was our first meeting all we did was talk about Revenue

um one thing that's been uh striking me in here and a little bit related to this as well is um you're obviously a very well established entrepreneur in Silicon Valley you can defend your position very strongly what about the young entrepreneurs that are out there wanting to build multi-billion dollar companies and the large VCS come in and suddenly they've got they start throwing the money in and suddenly their stance on privacy gets thrown asunder because the VCS are going you're going to be a billion dollar company you're going to make 10 billion dollars you actually need to scrape the data you need to exploit that data you need to sell that data and such like what what advice do

you have for those younger entrepreneurs to stand their positions because because their companies might just disappear because the VCS are like we can't play this game you know that's the billion dollar question right it's um and yeah because I'm established because Tim berners-lee is an advisor because we put the poison pill in our privacy policy that poison pill is for us and anybody who might want to acquire us you know if you're going to acquire us if you're gonna if we're gonna you know even for Tim Cook if Apple whatever they have to play by our rules so um for young people and this is what's happened so you know path was founded by Dave

Morin he was a Facebook guy and he pivoted on privacy one of the early successful companies that pivot on privacy but they weren't private at all so they scrape data they spied on miners they did everything you know there they got fined you know big amount by the FTC um you know and they're now you know their their North American Market is diminished but they're still you know overseas they still have a brand Snapchat you know the thing that always concerned me about Snapchat and I wrote about this before the FTC fined them a year earlier listen you've got we're all technologists I might not be able to know how to code because you know that's

my choice is to have my engineering team um but I knew we could you know come on this isn't rocket science that picture shows up on your phone it's got to land somewhere that phone can't just you know it's so it just gets buried down the layers we can hack down and find that picture um I don't know why Benchmark Capital put a quarter billion dollars in them and pretends that they didn't know you know I mean really how could you not know you're you're the VC you know you're doing your technology due diligence um so this is a really great question you know hopefully entrepreneurs like like me and others and Tim and people we

can Inspire I've written a lot about this about the opportunity of privacy of something uh called conscious capitalism and this is the whole idea of that this is It's almost like the convergence like we're all ready for you know for the Integrity for the ethics um and you know this is where capitalism is great so we can make a choice at the end of the day it's up to us to make a choice on what companies and products we use I'm not a chairwoman Ramirez has no holds no hope out for real regulation around privacy in North America particularly in the United States not real regulation with teeth because in her world and this is really cool the

chairwoman of the Federal Trade Commission Edith Ramirez believes that we should be able to tell all companies to delete all the data around about us and that they would actually have to delete it now that's the second part of the question is would they really delete it and what server is it left on and what data broker and what country but at least there's an advocate at that higher position in America who believes that you know the right to be forgotten even you know greater than the way it's perceived in Europe I mean that we should just be able to do that um I think what we have to do is show momentum the Privacy sells like the

question about Revenue I think we have to show momentum and I think we can you know we could you know turn the tide it's a big project thank you great question thanks

hi um so just to give a little background I'm currently a student at UBC and what I'm about to say is more of like a comment and I'm interested on your opinion so I feel like my generation the generation that's growing up with all the social media really just has no idea what these companies are doing with their data and I kind of feel like a way to make this change would be to give education to the younger people growing up so they can make a difference so I just was curious what you thought about this yeah see and then that's really actually the perfect question and comment that's what we talked about it's you know if you knew

um that there's you know let's say a black hooded creep like following you around uh when I wrote about the these new super cookies it's like imagine see the problem is we can't see it and because we can't see because there's this sort of ephemeral nature to it we don't realize it's happening every second every minute and if there was a way to communicate this so the people really got it because if you saw it you know you'd be aghast and you would never allow it I mean never allow it you know but people that Nest uh thermostats inside their homes but if they really saw the data transfer um similar as this gentleman the front

row said before you know when he we first made this agreement with Gmail for example we didn't really realize the implications so um these are infographics these are as the Privacy Revolution gets momentum and there are ways to create visual reality I think it's helpful you know there already have been videos and things like that but I think it'll become more popular more prominent and hopefully you know youth will actually create some great infographics great videos uh miwi is going to do a big um YouTube campaign uh you know we we're lining up viners all kinds of sort of content really creative content and right on miwi's homepage there's something called The miwi Challenge which is also fun it's going to go viral

you just click the social media you're using and it just pops up and tells you how many tracking cookies are on you um and people just go whoa you know so part of that is just giving that reality check people don't know um you know how many of you guys know Facebook and most you probably do how many of you know that Facebook is tracking us at 1205 of the top 2510 uh websites in North America that's a staggering statistic and you know Facebook has data on us whether you're a member of Facebook or not that's actually the other creepy part of it all so great question um and hopefully you know you can help

yeah create some great infographics send them to me if you want uh it's Market miwi so great next question yeah comments on how do we in the back there's a couple in the back you know and let's stay with this let's stay with the idea this whole Magna Carta idea what can we do because we've got to we don't want to be victims anymore you know we want to come up we're the technologists we want to come up we don't want to be the victims go ahead in the back so good morning I'm Marianne from bit9 I have a question that's related to what's going on just with the world related to Terror and here in Canada

we're in the middle stages of passing a bill called c51 which is all about invasion of privacy for the better of our society and I think I'd like your comments about how there's this Catch-22 about who determines what amount of information is for the betterment of our society in other words protecting us against terrorism for example or what is sort of free use and and protection of our own privacy and I guess my only other comment is we seem to have a moral compass on the internet when it comes to things well maybe this is naive but to things about uh our tolerance for uh you know hate you know hate crimes maybe child pornography we seem to have

a moral compass but when it comes to a capitalist aspect it gets very blurry so I guess two points one how do we deal with this fear mongering in government to protect us to steal our privacy or invade our privacy and how did we get to a point where we do have a moral compass where we move that line up a little better uh let's start with the second part first because the moral compass is tenuous unfortunately like the cyber bullying I'll just talk about cyber bullying um when cyber bullying programs go out to high schools and cyber bullying you know uh parents kids right the data 43 nearly 50 percent of kids are Cyber

Bullied um but they can't get a lot of momentum when they bring the programs to high schools ask parents to come parents kind of turn turn the other cheek they don't want to know this couldn't be my kid who's the bully or it couldn't be my kid who's being Cyber Bullied and kids are often embarrassed and afraid to share uh when they're Cyber Bullied you know they don't they don't want to tell their friends it's embarrassing they don't tell their parents um you know either they can't relate their parents I think their parents can help they think actually talking about it could hurt them more um so we have you know I think like it's kind

of like what you're alluding to a semi moral compass you know it's like the new company Yik Yak um which is just another example of an anonymous app or ello um where you know you can get on them and and supposedly they have some controls but you can really trash somebody um and they get funded this is that there's capitalism uh at work um so you know so we've got a lot to do there also in this sort of I think it's really a great point for the Magna Carta we really have to to identify things you know that are harmful uh miwi has a very clear terms and conditions by the way you know we don't

uh you know allow you know we say you know miwis for law-abiding citizens so you know if you're posting gratuitous violence pornography things like that it's a very clear list in our our terms of service that this is not allowed if we get a complaint we reserve the right to investigate and we you know we'll shut it down um because we really want you know there's there's this power of good we want to be for the good when it comes to the larger question right uh c51 um this is so the challenge is now how many people in the room are in law enforcement okay uh one maybe two and listen I you know I love law enforcement I love being

protected um and you know um I think America's you know my dad was kidnapped once the FBI in America did a great job there's a crazy story we'll have we'll do that one over a beer um but the fact of the matter is that law enforcement serves a purpose and they they're here to protect us and protect society and help enforce the rules and regulations and that's really important for us to be safe in this theater this morning so at the same time when you look at the data as I quoted Mr Dempsey when you look at at the amount of data that they're processing they can find bad guys and then they can Target like this uh the stingray the

dirt boxes you know they don't need the idea behind the dirt boxes was great well like a cell tower and we're going to identify the telephone that we want to track and then we're going to track that phone we're going to track that guy um but in fact what they did was just track everybody so I think that with all the respect to law enforcement that's in the room law enforcement just wants everything law enforcement also doesn't have that that data Integrity Compass you know from my experience with law enforcement um you know Law Enforcement wants all the data but we have we have data that shows that all the data doesn't actually help and in some ways it's a hindrance

because then we have too many resources spread out in too many places watching you know is it helpful if you're watching you know 300 million innocent people when you're looking for a few bad guys that you already know who they are um no so I think I think it's a great question the problem is they sell us you know everybody wants to be protected so the majority if I asked you know how many of us want to feel safe in our communities everybody raise their hand um how many of us want to help law enforcement so that we can feel safe almost everybody raised their hand but we're being sold a bill of goods that's actually not true

they don't need that data they don't need all of it our constitution originally protected us from that and said that you know in your own you know your your private our our Supreme Court has now said your phone is private you can't just be pulled over in a car and they can look at it you can't no one can knock on your door without a warrant and say give me your phone but the phone company has all that data already so we have to go one step further so you know I'm very concerned about things like c51 um the Patriot Act which is coming right up against the Fourth Amendment now the court cases are finally working their

way through so the next four to six years we're going to see a lot of legal things and we've got to protect our privacy otherwise we're fighting to get it back what's left um so that's you know any other comment you want to make about that

balcony seats front row you know first of all also you guys see all these really comfortable chairs in the front there's like I don't know 40 of them uh and I was told that that some some of these these VIPs up here but had very good you know because because of it's Ted week here so you're probably all going out and partying um but today everybody is wide awake in the front row I was told yesterday that might not have been the case so thank you guys go ahead thanks Mark very very very good keynote I was in Victoria at the privacy and security as well and saw you there in the panel with the Facebook and Google and Twitter

government relations guys and you didn't really get to shine in that particular panel and the context so anyway I um thank you it was an interesting position just everybody knows uh there's a conference in Victoria a few weeks ago and they had me on the panel with Facebook and Google and Twitter I did my best to behave myself so thank you thank you didn't pull any Pages um very uh anyway I work for the bank HSBC and also with isaka I volunteer with them and uh some people some of you may know and you might have heard from Justin we also spearheaded BC aware which is a privacy and security campaign so personally I'm very passionate about

both privacy and security and I I work in the security sphere now I really really like what I see in miwi and I was as you were talking about this I looked you up and I looked at your privacy policy your prior and your poison pill and so on and and um you know you've been you've been a um you know you've been um a a um a startup for some time now now I have a kit so I'm thinking how do we get the Next Generation to be embracing something like this which is so open in terms of privacy you don't own our data you say very clearly you won't sell it you won't share it

um you know you're not gonna spy on your friends and so on as my kids you know look at us parents the examples using Facebook WhatsApp and so on um that's that's all they know about right so what are you doing to are you doing anything to get into the school systems and get to the kids when they're young so that and and get into and let the school administrations know this is the right way to engage in social media thank you great uh great question great Point um and so this is actually our challenge right as uh you know and all of us as innovators is bring product to Market so we ran a beta project called Scruples

which the Tim berners-lee joined um at the end of October in 2014 we announced that our real name is miwi we have not started to Market uh which is why you know if you know you hadn't been at this conference you might not have heard of me yet um because of my belief as we talked about earlier that Bill Gates had it really nicely but for the rest of us today in this world uh we've got to deliver a great product we saw ello come out in September move millions of people off of Facebook overnight and their product was terrible and they didn't even have apps uh and it was an anonymous uh it wasn't what the promise

was so um what we're doing at miwi is we're making sure that the product is ready for example if you register today in iOS um you can't search for me uh you'd have to look go on desktop so member search will be live next week we just set pushed it to the store two days ago so we're waiting until the product is really really great and we've got some really cool sort of Snapchat uh type features for photo sharing that are really really cool and then we have a marketing plan to to go after the youth Market uh and to go into schools yesterday I met with Jesse Smith uh here um so Jesse was here and he and I met

talking about how to get into schools uh we also have a plan for a thousand member student privacy Advisory board at miwi we very much are going to get students involved because you know you've got to be cool for the kids um you know most of us in the room you know I'll say are over 30. so and you know I'm sorry about that guys but we are oh okay um but really you know uh our demographic we've got to get the young Market um and so you know everybody who works at me we um is in their 20s generally I think we have three people you know out of the 35 or four that are 30 and over because

we've got to really make sure that we've got that sex appeal part of it was that video uh that video was shot in 11 countries um and you know there's 12 hours of footage from it and we distilled it to a one minute video the only thing left is to to work a little bit more in music there but we intend to get to and and it's it's two approaches and you guys know this if you're doing any kind anything in education if we get to the high school or the principal uh kids may not listen right because it's almost like their parent telling them what to do so we've also got to come in the other way we've

got to get the kids to really love me we so there's some what we call the sex appeal that we're putting it to me we right now before we go into our full launch to make it really attractive to kids on college campuses kids in high schools to classrooms it's a great tool for classrooms and for principals just to say to their kids hey you know you're going to use social media use something where you know cyber bullying is at a minimum uh you know strangers can't see your friends or your content uh you know we do we've done everything we can to put in things that will you know the 85 percent of changes that will minimize

the opportunity for cyber bullying but you can share privately and colleges aren't going to see it you know your grandmother's not going to see it your employers aren't going to see it and you know as a principal of school I'm not going to see it so I can get this headache off of my desk we're working on it yeah and we'll start a big marketing campaign in about eight weeks also just to speak to how we're funded um we've been funded by high net worth individuals around the world rather than going to Silicon Valley VCS part of our philosophy is that you know we wanted to to have people from around the world invest in me we rather than just getting

institutional money in Silicon Valley besides which when I first moved Silicon Valley in 2011 to start the new company they laughed me out of every room I went into and I said privacy was going to make a comeback so you know true true story I mean it was it was I left a lot of uh Venture Capital meetings with my tail between my legs thinking you know you guys are wrong but that's my job is to show you that people are going to demand privacy and part of is simply education you know we didn't know privacy was important until they took it away and all of a sudden there's this thing called after the Ecstasy the

laundry so after the Ecstasy of Facebook there's the laundry we're all dealing with the laundry now the laundry is our data is out and around the world our kids data will live forever out there parents don't want to share on Facebook anymore Etc let me see where we are thank you Mark look forward to that right so we have time for one or two more questions so let's uh you know we want to solve let's see what we can do here um you know because part of this is also taking care of our kids right because we were all kids once it was at the bar there by the way don't you love this venue where there's bars everywhere and

you can drink in the middle of the day so truly a hacker conference right yeah well a lot of us here are pretty uh concerned with what our governments and other organizations do in our name so we call for transparency in atmosphere and then we want privacy in our our own sphere so I think it might be the the approach to take is to have a public Define the public sphere don't Define what's private to Define what's public and kill two birds with one stone that's an interesting way to look at it that's that's right that's creative that's out of the box thinking right yeah yeah to Define what's what's allowed to be public also

um to somehow uh do for our college student over here um to find a way to give you know better representation uh although you know even a warning on a cigarette packet doesn't stop a smoker from smoking um but we've got to find a way that's more graphic that people can really understand and then yeah maybe uh figuring out a way to define what's what's okay to be public you know I think uh the right to be forgotten the the European commission if you guys followed the decision when they decided that Google had to uh you know take down what you told them to take down uh in Europe um I think they actually went too far

and I was in a very awkward position as one of the leading privacy Advocates uh saying the European commission went too far because if you've been convicted of a crime then I think that's you know that's public domain information and I should be able to discover that if you're going to babysit my kids um you know if you're gonna you know whatever it is um but the way the European commission uh you know made the ruling uh you know you had to take all that stuff down too Google did so there's there's this real question about what should be available to the public what what should be information about us that should be available and what shouldn't be and also

you know like you said well what should be scraped um but the the challenge is that money again has no Integrity compass and money is influencing you know um fortunately this privacy conference Facebook and Google um you know in other companies Microsoft Yahoo didn't sponsor but how many of you go to other privacy conferences show hands so you know if you get out of all right and especially if you get out of Vancouver um these privacy conferences are sponsored by Facebook and Google right and this is why actually um you know the online trust Alliance um you know I know them I was a member of them before but but we took that we took the banner off of our site because

really their whole board is Facebook and Google and um and trustee I know Chris Babel the CEO of trustee um but that didn't stop me from writing uh you know a nasty article on HuffPost about you know WTF it's a New York expression so um you know what are you thinking so you know um yeah so so you know to have a real conversation an ethical conversation that doesn't have any other vested interests and that's what I was hoping for this morning and that's what we're having and this is the kind of group together we've got to figure this out and then we've got to make our voices heard so um because otherwise there's going to be

this Insidious this is why Tim is talking about this all over the world we've got to figure this out and we can't have um you know the the money interest if we can get this right we'll figure out how to make the right money there's always a way to to have a great company and be a capitalist this this movement called conscious capitalism um but we've really got to crack this nut and we've got to help the world uh figure this one out so thank you uh any last question somebody in the back you've got your hand up nope oh great great over here and uh I'll be here afterwards by the way guys just one quick comment I'm just

wondering do you have anyone that's your um you know I guess one way to get into social Consciousness is to get it into the Limelight and often use uh celebrities or athletes or whatever and of course with all these breaches and stuff like that do you have anyone that you've targeted that suggests that they might be able to be on board and helping you promote this belief system not necessarily just the product but the belief system yeah um great question right because you know um I'm a mature CEO and so you know a 15 year old's probably not going to listen to me um not probably not going to listen to many of us in the room so actually last

night I was gonna be with a bunch of the Ted participants talking about exactly this um meeting with some big time music producers um you know we know there's people like Ashton Kutcher who are investing in privacy so we're very much looking at you know I consider myself to be the Integrity Compass of our company and then we really need to have our spokespeople in the trenches I'm also I've just been interviewed by Psychology today we're looking at more mainstream press it's great to publish an article in info security but you know that means that all of us are reading info security so it's not getting where the message where it needs to go even HuffPost you know doesn't

really get the message where it needs to go so we're very much looking at this yeah yeah and we're also as I mentioned earlier we're going to run content marketing campaigns um through top finders top YouTubers uh Twitter we already have evidence that Facebook shuts us down we had a blogger who wrote One blog about us a couple weeks ago and we had 25 000 new members overnight and Facebook immediately shut down the the conversation so um but we will and you know do everything we can to to popularize this conversation thank you great question so um I know uh anybody else have a question because I know um uh I think um the next room is going a

little bit longer but we're good and then I'll be here uh so if you want to come up talk do you have a question over there can we do one more ounce or not no okay we're done all right Alex Alex has he's the king so uh thank you Alex no it's all right um let me just thank everybody uh you guys have been really awesome and this is such an important conversation so what I really want is for every one of us and every one of you uh together to to really take it to heart and to start to think about Solutions and start talking about Solutions ways that we can change because we're going to be

changing in the next four to six years are pivotal um and so we're all part of this conversation and you know when you know we don't have you know um like Facebook and Google have a lot at stake because their whole models are based on data and the data Brokers that we don't know of course so we've got to make our voices heard and we can change this because this is really about the people and this is really about the future the future of life on Earth and we can do this thank you very much everybody [Applause] thank you very much Mark uh we're going to take a few minutes to swap speakers and we'll have uh Wesley Weinberg in in

a few moments

thank you