What We Do In The Shadows: Going Dark With Consumer Electronics

morning b-sides what's going on come on no it's 10. you guys are still up at this hour right you haven't gone to bed yet well thank you eric what's up everyone my name's tim um i am going to be talking about going dark with consumer electronics um a little bit about me first uh i'm a father a husband a yinzer uh by day i build socks and by night um i have panic attacks and read privacy policies and freak out about them that being said um because this is the first time i actually can include my employer uh i have to say something uh all opinions expressed are my own and do not represent the opinions of my

employer so let's talk about going dark with consumer electronics we'll hop into it right um well it's simple don't use it great questions we got like 35 minutes but no seriously we're gonna talk about a couple things today um first things first we're gonna talk about the privacy problem we're gonna then go on to talk about some tools that you can use today you can walk out of here and use these tools today um to sort of start taking some of that privacy back uh we're gonna talk about uh some pro gamer moves after that right everyone loves that uh and then walk you through a practical example uh and hopefully we should have some time for some q a

that's usually my favorite portion of this talk that being said like phillyd says let's just jump into it so here's the deal um we work in and live in interesting times where everything has a wi-fi chip um and it makes some things super cool i can play angry birds on my refrigerator i've always wanted to do that when i was a little boy i said to my mom one day i will be able to throw a red bird at pigs on a refrigerator and she said we should pay more for therapy um right but all these offer really cool conveniences uh to modern day life right i love being able to yell at my alexa

and tell it to turn the thermostat down when my wife sets it to an unreasonable 74 degrees in the middle of summer right um here's the problem all of these interesting fun things require an account right that's tied to you um and all of these things uh contain a lot of information about who you are as a person right your habits um your likes your dislikes uh you know it was um not too long ago that the only time you were recorded while eating dinner was when you were in the federal prison system um now you we just are willingly putting microphones and cameras in our kitchens right so what's happening with all this information

what are they doing um i they wouldn't let me bring the tinfoil hat into the casino i can't imagine why um so let's talk about a couple things first things first we have you right then we have the things that you use to interact with the world right your computer your phone your debit your credit card and then we have your life essentially the things you buy the things you drive the things you take pictures of your medical the friends you have on social media and all of that is inextricably tied together right with those accounts that we were talking about we were just talking about right you have a bank account that has a sign and you can then

see that you know your purchase the bank can see your purchases all that's information that's very valuable to companies um a lot of times they say that they're listening to you and they're really not it's just they're able to collect a bunch of ancillary information from all the devices that you use including these devices in your home right and they're able to do that we're gonna i'm sorry for anyone who's a database engineer i hate databases but we're gonna talk about primary keys for a second right and some of the simple ones that we can sort of control right so our phone number our email address our name our address our ip address in the imei

of our phone right those are all things we have fairly decent control over so now what do we do when we say going dark what can we do with this information well we have this rat's nest of uh of connections right what we want to start doing is essentially building firewalls between all of these uh lifestyle choices essentially right um what would you do you know what could be learned about you if you only use uh one credit card and one phone number and one ip address for your auto insurance right um what could be learned if you only use one name a separate name a separate credit card a separate phone a separate computer for your social media accounts

right it becomes a lot harder to make a profile of you as opposed to this mess right so we'll talk about some essentials that you can use to sort of start undoing this rat's nest and firewalling off your life first things first is your phone now um i'm treading into uh scary territory here we're gonna start with the apple uh android debate okay and i'm sorry to anyone who's a green bubble boy um you're not gonna like this um i want to make something clear though uh secure does not necessarily equal private both platforms for the most part are just as secure as one another um where the uh privacy aspect comes in i think that uh we can all safely say that

an ad company owning a phone operating system is less private than a hardware company owning a phone syste a phone ecosystem right so here's the thing you're gonna want to pick yourself up an iphone now when i used to give this talk we're just glossing right over that when i used to give this talk i used to be able to say um you know uh iphones were cheap right uh it used to be um that you know it wasn't a thousand dollars to get uh you know the latest and greatest you could the buried entry was like 200 bucks well i don't know if you've noticed in the past couple of years some interesting things have happened right um so now i

really can't say that uh the barrier to entry is about 400 bucks for one of these very very sweet iphone ses with a fairly decent amount of storage right i do have some honorable mentions one of them is graphene os um graphene os is a fork of what formerly was known as copperhead os um copperhead os there's a whole they call it drama i don't know if it's necessarily drama their business model is interesting uh graphene os is open source um it's made it's android made private by design so if you own a google device you can flash this to it um the problem is that when you strip out all the fun google stuff it kind of

makes it functionally unusable so um that's privacy for you anyway so we got our phone next up cell service right um we've all heard of sim swapping attacks the idea here is that we're going to get a new phone number but we're not necessarily going to use that phone number right so we need a new sim card i recommend i sound like a drug dealer i recommend prepaid cards um specifically uh no i mention a lot of services in this talk i'm not affiliated with any of them just to be clear i recommend mint mostly because you can go to best buy and pay for them in cash and you get t-mobile service which is

meh but it's better than like us mobility or whatever mvmo they have at your local walgreens right um it's about 70 bucks for the year um and you get uh a phone and or you get a phone number and a decent amount of data and they don't require you to give real real names you don't have to provide your real name which is fantastic right the other option and this is this is the ed snowden option in my opinion there's a group called the calyx institute they will offer you a free wi-fi hotspot with a i say free with a 600 donation annually um listen we're laughing about money we're going to talk about that at the end

don't worry um but you can leverage that wi-fi hotspot with an ipod touch which they recently discontinued much to my chagrin but you can still pick them up on the on the second market so now we have our device right we now need to actually use it for something okay so the first things first what does every service require when you sign up for it besides a name not necessarily yours that's right email thank you for whoever shouted that out um we need private email so uh when we're looking for private email what we're looking for is a brand new account from a privacy focused provider um you're going to want to do the due diligence of you know long

password 2fa um we're not using this email account by the way so don't make it like cheerleadergirl69 at protonmail.com right we don't want any identifiable information although there are some people in this crowd that might that might not be identifiable um uh you're not going to use that email address anywhere though we're not signing up for anything with it it's purely there for our next for the next part of this uh toolkit when i talk about um private email i really only am recommending these four uh right now protonmail mailbox are you uh tunta nota which i'm sure is how that's pronounced uh and start now these are providers that have had their privacy protections

tested in a court of law it used to be that i had this big long list that i used to tell people and point to and say hey these are people you should check out that is not the case anymore a lot of these providers have had have had um some sort of court order where they've been forced to hand over information and they've actually handed it over so that's private email what do we need next well we need to actually be able to use our email and that's where our next tool anon addie comes in so a non-addi is essentially a service that allows you to create on-the-fly email addresses that will forward to your private mail

address so now we've eliminated the need to give out our email address uh to every single service now gmail offers something similar to this right where you used to be able to put like spam plus your cheerleader69 gmail.com right and have that filter um this is similar but you don't need to as long as the end domain is the same and you can use custom domains you can use the ones provided by a non-addi um you can use unique emails per service right and that allows you to again decouple some of that information there's another honorable mention here and that's 33 mail it essentially provides the same service of uh a non-addy however uh the reason i like it on adding more

is just because it's open source um and you can actually go and look at the code although people say that i don't know how many people actually do um neither here nor there next great we have a phone number we're now able to sign up for stuff we have to pay for stuff though right that's sort of like the linchpin all of this is being able to pay for stuff so uh when we talk about paying for stuff we're gonna talk about privacy.com for a sec so essentially privacy.com it allows you to connect to your bank and make purchases with burner cards apple has a service similar to this where you know the merchant doesn't see your

card number when you use apple pay but you still have to use apple and your bank still gets to see the information of that transaction with privacy the bank doesn't know what you bought it shows up as privacy.com and the vendor doesn't know what card you're using because you're using a new card every time it's really great when you want to make purchases and you don't want your wife to know what you bought and it's just a dollar amount and you can just hand wave that away right so now the bank doesn't have that information the vendors don't have that information and more importantly you get the product that you ordered so the one thing we haven't talked about

we have our phone we have our email we have our phone number that we're not giving out to anyone what are we doing about phone numbers well there's a tool called mysudo and what mysudo does is it allows you to create um on the fly phone numbers that will actually be registered with services right so you can actually go and type this phone number in amazon for your 2fa or for your delivery notifications and it'll work just fine it will function essentially as a voipline right so you're not handing out the phone number that's associated with your sim card so companies aren't seeing your imei they're just seeing your my pseudo phone number right um again another way

that we can decouple that that spider nest that we saw this morning or the spider web that we saw earlier right and this is going to essentially replace your primary phone number you'll have a phone number for amazon a phone number for google a phone number for um the etsy shop you're buying stickers off of a phone number for um your daughter's school what have you right well what does that do with your old phone number because i'm assuming your old phone number is connected to everything right um and this is the one time i usually say no to google sorry besides usually say no to google um but this is the one time i can recommend

google voice and here's why chances are you all have a gmail account or have had a gmail account at some point right this gmail account you all you already have a history with what i recommend is porting your number to google voice and then locking down that gmail account um you don't want to let that number go back into the public pool of numbers because what could potentially happen is your pharmacy your doctor what have you has that old number on file they're not great about updating stuff fun fact betty at the front desk is not computer literate so hitting that update button isn't her number one priority it's making sure that you pay so um

you know when you change your phone number it can get uh you can get a little hairy and you can wind up with someone that you don't know getting your information that way so like i said if you port it over to google voice i believe it's free still as of 8 o'clock this morning so unless they pushed out a change that that's what i recommend for your for your old phone number so we have our toolkit right we have our email we have our new phone we have um our phone number and we have a way to make purchases let's talk some pro gamer moves then okay this is the one that everyone loves

let's talk about your isp well you can now sign up this is the only good thing about coveted you can now sign up for your isp without ever having to provide real information outside of your address so john doe can order your email or your isp and you can pay for it with privacy so now your name is not associated with your internet service just your address um now let's talk about the ip um itself that you get from your internet service provider you're going to want to use a vpn and you're not going to want to just use any vpn uh the ones i recommend again these are because they've been tested in court molved vpn and proton vpn

are the most reliable here's the only thing uh the only downside if you're paying for gigabit and you're using one of these services to tunnel your traffic you ain't getting gigabit not happening um so hey listen that's just cost savings you don't have to pay for gigabit pay for that 400 down and put it towards the iphone that you have to buy now that being said if you are going to buy a vpn pay for it just pay for it if you're not paying for something you are the product so anyone that offers a free vpn service is not doing you a favor um pay for it pay for it pay for it preferably one of these two

links in bio i'm kidding um now let's talk about how we're going to take care of our home network obviously we need to connect to the internet somehow um how do we do that well obviously we need a router of some kind and the one that you get from verizon or comcast is probably phoning home you have a couple options actually um since we don't have to worry about that sweet sweet gigabit um uh there's a company called protectly that produces open source uh they're actually just computers but they're basically computers with a bunch of extra nics which is all a router really is um uh they produce uh but the um firmware is all open source uh you could just buy

an intel nook um you could go on ebay go on ebay and there are tons of companies getting rid of five-year-old hardware that is more than capable for your home network your home lab what have you um basically if you can find a computer that has four gigs of ram you're ready to rock and roll by usb adapter you're set now what software are we gonna run there's really only two that i can i can safely say um love this slide when it's blank where did it go

hey gang i don't know what did i hit something it's back hell yeah okay moving on [Laughter] let's talk routing software so there's really there's two options in my opinion open sense and pf sense they're essentially forks are the same thing pick one it's a routing software if you know how a firewall works you'll know how to configure one of these now we're gonna get into the tricky bit again because we're gonna talk apple versus pc [Music] and you probably won't kill me for this one so when you're looking at uh a new computer right that you want to use to maintain your privacy um apple is always an option i really think their privacy is is top tier on their

devices so you could go with a macbook or you could go with arguably arguably the greatest laptop ever produced that's right the thinkpad x220 from 2007. i love this thing you can pick them up for 50. you can open source all of the hardware and you can install whatever you want including mac os we ain't going to be doing that though right so let's talk about os for a minute first off we all know windows 10 including windows 11 their privacy nightmares even if you disable the telemetry they're still sending a bunch of stuff back to microsoft we don't like that and with windows 11 now you can't even create a local account on startup of a

new computer you have to have a microsoft account so not not for me bro the other thing is as much as i fawn for apple sometimes they just have dumb dumb dumb bugs really um and they tend to not tell you about them until they're fixed and that's usually too late so what does that leave us with everyone that's right say with me linux everyone's favorite so you have a couple options if you just want your computer to work just download debian and call it a day um it's open source they really are very stringent about that um and it will work on pretty much anything uh i'm pretty sure i at one point i

installed debian on a graphing calculator um if you want to be super paranoid there's a ser or there's a operating system called cube's os which essentially allows you to do with your computer what we just did with our entire life right you have a virtual machine that's just for work you have a virtual machine that's just for banking for shopping um for your personal work right you can separate those out all within cube's os um that though comes with its own set of headaches although if you're really committed to this it's there's no other real way to go and then we gotta talk about services because with all this hardware comes services right it's an echo is not worth its weight in

gold if i can't yell at it and tell it tell me when to leave for my next appointment more specifically to be at b-sides to give a talk at 10 a.m so we have all these services right google dropbox netflix right um what do we do about these services well we self-host them there are alternatives to all of this um and i think this is the crowd that would be most adept at actually pulling this off you can basically self-host your entire life to the point where instead of you know using someone else's computer it's your computer and you can point to the disk and say that's where the photo of my dog is um

and and that's that's really where you can start to take some of even more of your privacy back right i do want to shout out home lab os nick busey um he makes self-hosting uh a lot of this stuff really really really easy um you fill in a couple forms uh fill in a couple yaml files and you're off to the races um i actually i tested it um and this is uh aegis if anything i apologize but even my mom could do it so great we have a bunch of tools i've talked about a bunch of tools i've talked about a bunch of crap what are we actually going to do with it like how

does this work in practice so as i said before we have this rat's nest right we want to get to here well how do we do that well let's say hypothetically you win uh an amazon echo from one of the vendors outside um right well you're gonna need to sign up an account with one of your brand new computers that you just bought right and you're gonna connect to that amazon service with one of your vpns that you just purchased and you're going to sign up for an account that you're going to use with that amazon echo cool um we'll just chug along what you're going to use for your user or for your email address is going to be

a randomly generated and on addi address right and you can see here we just click sign in punch in some fake information and on will forward that email and verification to protonmail and we'll be able to verify our email great now we have an account look at that john doe we have our anony email and we have our password right well now we need a phone number that's tied to it so that's where we go to sudo we come in here we can pick from a phone a list of phone numbers call it second because we are if anything but creative and from there we're able to tie it to our account use it for 2fa use it for

notifications and we have our uh ammo amazon or echo plus uh hooked up right well now i want to be able to yell at it and tell it i need toilet paper because there's a storm coming right that's where privacy.com comes in we create a new privacy card by the way this is live if anyone writes this down and can use it before anyone else great you get ten bucks on me enjoy um but as you can see we are able three two five four look at that three two five four elliot anderson we're able to add that to our account under a completely different name too and that's how we set up our echo plus

and now we have a nice mustachioed man look at him he's gorgeous able to use our echo plus and that's it you're private that's the end of it nothing else there's no problems with this no flaws at all right there are some cons so first things first not all services are going to like your voip phone number from my sudo it gets uh it'll often get flagged as a prepaid number so that can be difficult the other thing the way privacy.com works today when you create those cards they're created as gift cards and some merchants don't like that i can assure you amazon does the other thing is added complexity and this is probably the biggest con

um when you set your life up like this um you become the single point of failure if uh something were to happen to me uh my wife is screwed okay um the added complexity is certainly uh something that you have to account for right you're not using as much compute space but now you are up here there's more to remember there's more to um sort of process at any given moment i've gotten really good at responding to names that aren't my own uh because of it um and finally doesn't account for anyone else and this is the one that i experienced most recently um my kids were uh we're gonna go to uh summer camp my mom

signed them up just gave my information out no problem here tell here's his full name his address his phone number all this other crap i i you can't account for what other people do right so if the other people in your life are not bought into the same program this ain't gonna work right and finally we have three real things to consider uh conspicuousness money and what i call privacy fatigue so here's the problem when you i'm going to use this image as much as humanly possible when you try to um decouple your life right and maintain more privacy the problem is you also become rapidly more noticeable um who's this guy with eight people

living at his address right with different names um who's this uh you know who's this guy that um every time he checks out he uses 30 different credit cards right there is a uh there's a level of conspicuousness it's um oh god i've been watching a lot of order and a lot of law order in quarantine so i apologize but there's an episode of law order where the guy is trying to avoid cameras by using this face paint right the problem is the dude is now walking around outside in face paint right so it's not that the cameras did the cameras didn't pick them up at all right but everyone noticed the weird guy in face

paint on the on the uh on the six right so the part of this is you do become a little bit more noticeable um the other problem that we touched on is money right um i don't know if you started doing some of the tallies in your head just to get started on a lot of the stuff that i talked about it's about a grand let's be honest between your internet service provider getting the new phone getting your sim card set up signing up for all these services it's about a grand um and that means that to a certain extent this privacy is behind a paywall right you basically have to rip and replace your life and we all know how well that

goes in business right um i would argue that that's not um how life should be everyone has a right to privacy right um i don't think that that's a debatable fact um the problem is that that right is kept behind you know a thousand dollars and and know how the other problem here is privacy fatigue it's exhausting living like this it is not sustainable um and you're going to mess up it's the old security adage right the attacker has to be right once you have to be perfect all of the time and that's very much the case with this so yeah you can go through and do a lot of this stuff to take some of your privacy

back and i encourage it i absolutely do this is not a fatalist view um everyone has a right to privacy everyone should be trying to maintain their privacy um i know the uh the usual response to that is oh well i don't have anything to hide and it's not about having anything to hide um it's about um [Music] let's put it this way we all know what you do when you go to the bathroom but i would argue that it takes a very specific type of person to want to do that in a public venue um privacy is not about having something to hide privacy is about choosing the uh when where and how uh you disclose information about

yourself and loved ones right so what can we yeah we can do this ourselves right but let's be honest my mom's not flashing an android phone you know i'm not gonna convince my brother uh you know to uh i'm not gonna convince my brother to install cubes right he's got excel documents to work on he's a productive member of society unlike the degenerate that stands before you um well there are a couple groups that are actually fighting for our rights um and while i don't recommend um i always recommend direct action right you don't need to give these people your money what i would recommend is you give these people your time and attention there are a couple one is mark or the

march against revenge porn um they are a group obviously fighting for uh the rights of people who have suffered from non-consensual image abuse um ironically enough privacy is part of that um the other option is uh operation safe escape they help victims of domestic violence get out of those situations they again are also very concerned about the privacy of their um of their clientele right so uh it behooves them to fight for stronger privacy policies and finally last but certainly not least the eff you know them you love them i don't need to say any more on that and gang that is my talk i think we have six minutes for questions so um what i will ask uh it tends to be

um male dominated so uh if i could have alternating um uh people who identify as female or non-binary with men who are identified as male or non-binary asking questions back and forth that would be preferable so any um women who identify as female or non-binary questions dope dudes let's go what do we got right there

the only reason i don't recommend open wrt is because it's a little bit more limited in its functionality so when you're looking at um solutions openwrt gives you somewhat the uh what you need to run essentially a home network whereas opensense and pf sense they have plugins and and more that will run on beefier hardware and you get more of an enterprise experience so you can do stuff like dpi with open sense and pf sense whereas with open wrt it will chug does that answer your question or non-binary cool next dude what do we got right here

question yes we should be concerned um and that's why uh again what we're fighting for is um you know better privacy protections overall that being said um the reason these services were chosen is because they have a track record for maintaining their users privacy um whereas google has made it pretty clear facebook has made it pretty clear your data is up for sale anyone else yes

great question they don't have it in the first place that's the key here um great wonderful how does a service provider uh prevent from is how is a service provider prevented from coughing up information in the first place in a court of law and the answer to that is they don't have it in the first place um for uh protonmail all they have is your email address and your password um and not even your password they have the salt of your password and it's store whatever i i'm not great at encryption i'll be perfectly blunt that's math and i failed for or i failed sophomore algebra okay so don't ask me about math i trust the

nerds on that one um but essentially the idea is that these companies will collect the least amount of uh data possible to provide you your service so protonmail they have your email address they don't necessarily need a name you can pay for it in bitcoin or monero or whatever um malvad they don't even have that much information they have your user id that is randomly generated when you click sign up and that's it um so the idea here great question the idea here is that these companies collect the least amount of information possible so there's nothing that a court can compel them to give to them because there's nothing to be had any other questions

right here

tips for combing through privacy policies great uh i did mention at the start that i do have panic panic attacks reading privacy policies um i i don't have a great answer for that um unfortunately uh i forget where i read it but um it uh it's there's a statistic floating out there and someone will probably find me and correct me on twitter after this that um it would take you 800 years to read every single privacy policy that we agree to in our daily lives right not that's not doable for anyone um there are a couple services i know that are out there that will help you sort of process these policies but those policies change at any like can

change at any time and it requires someone to read them to fully understand what is in there so the data tends to be a little bit behind right what their what their current privacy policy may

be do i think of tor here's uh this goes back to the conspicuous part uh that i mentioned at the beginning the problem the only problem i have with tor is that people will know you're using tor right um or uh your internet experience will be functionally unusable right if anyone here has tried to use tor over a vpn um look i lived through to the 90s i don't want to go back okay um so that's the only from a usability and conspicuousness perspective that's the only reason i don't i don't leverage tor although that being said cube's os which is made by a bunch of really great folks all those updates run over tor so you

know what the hell do i know right here

essentially yes it is a how to create a sock puppet different use cases tails is sort of like i need to i should have prefaced this at the beginning um this applies to corporate surveillance right if you're a nation if you're targeted by a nation-state actor don't ask me for help don't talk to me i don't need that heat right i don't want to deal with that but essentially yes it is how to create a sock puppet these tools much like many in the infosec industry can be used for good they can also be used for bad but i would argue that the masses having this information at hand is better than is worth worth the

risk but yes it is essentially how to create a sock puppet 100 any other questions sorry i didn't say that in the mic any other questions up right there

uh oh god i don't want to weigh it into these waters so um the question was uh my recommendation for mb why didn't i recommend plex here's the deal i have a black server let's be honest how many people here have a plex server at home right do you know why you have a plex server at home because it freaking works i love mb i love mb and i cannot stand some of the stuff that um plex is doing right now because i'm worried that their business model is moving away from personal media server to personal streaming service right but it works i i'm giving this talk right everyone can see what computer i have i'm not giving

this talk from a thinkpad that i rooted and did all that other stuff to you know why because my mac works that's the problem all of this stuff is a nightmare to deal with and it doesn't like it's not anything that anyone outside of our field can understand which is why we need to pick up the mantle and fight for these better protections i i am giving this presentation from a mac because i'm sorry libreoffice and open office absolutely terrible uh they're not i'm i'm gonna get so much flack for this terrible they're not great for daily use they're great if you want to support open source i like what they're doing um but from a like presentation perspective

or like daily use it i'm again there's a very select group of people that can pull that off and i am not one of them um i'm not farting around with fonts at two in the morning when i'm trying to get a presentation done okay i'm sorry does that answer your question i'm sorry that i went off on a rant there no it's because so mb is more focused on providing a personal media server and plex is slowly becoming more focused on being like everyone else and gathering your data right they want to be a personal streaming service right they want you to hook all your accounts up to them so you can find where bluey is playing uh you know

in your streaming library um and that's the other thing is i don't like that they require their authentication servers to be on in order for you to authenticate to your personal server um that was a that was another complaint um it's my data is here i can see it i can look at the files but i can't play it because your authentication servers are down um so that's why i recommend mb over over plex i think the long-term viability is much better from a personal media server perspective that answer cool i don't know how much time i have for more questions i don't know if someone's flagging me down what's up five minutes okay we could probably do

two more anyone else right here you guys love throwing questions that are going to cause problems yes yes i do um and it's it's meeting people where they're at right for all the flaws that signal and the organization might have um yeah you know it's better than i mean it's better than imessage it's better than just plain text message uh and if i can convin if it's ease of use uh is to the point where i can convince you know my loved ones to use it great fine i'll put up with the gifts but whatever you know what i mean um and i mean that's that is a that is absolutely a situation where it's meet people where they are at right

um what's the other one that i'm thinking of that everyone's on not whatsapp oh god thank you telegram yeah um some people use telegram some people use wire like right there are all these different encrypted email or encrypted messaging applications it's all about what's the easiest to use and what you can get people on because something is better than nothing one last question right there

sorry can you years of drumming has left my hearing absolutely obliterated a good solution to a master password are you like a password manager so um you can actually you can actually um so there's two options here really in my opinion um outside of buying a service right um there's bit warden and there's uh keepass right so bitwarden is essentially uh it's akin to 1password or lastpass or dashlane or whatever your favorite youtuber's hawkin um they um they provide a fairly seamless experience you can host it yourself um and you can use uh ub keys and set up 2fa properly with it um that being said if you don't want to deal with all that

hassle keepass is the next best solution that being said the only problem with keepass is you need to make sure that you can get that database somewhere and keep make sure that it's up to date so that you can use it i have many a time been burned by that um there's nothing like being stuck at an alamo rent-a-car unable to log into your email because you didn't sync the right password database over okay so potential downsides all right gang i think that's my time um that being said i'll be here all day um find me uh i'm the dude in the floral pirates hat you can hunt me down uh i could talk about this for hours so thank you for

coming everyone i really appreciate it i hope you have a great rest of your day [Applause]