Ivan Zlatar | Cybersecurity in Satellite Systems

Uh hello everyone and welcome back to to track 2. Hopefully you had a light lunch and you're prepared to listen to this talk. Uh for those of us who were in TAC 2, as you know, we saw how incidents unfold inside traditional infrastructure. Now we're moving into a domain where security challenges become even more unusual space. Our next speaker, Ivan Zlat, works on EU defense projects focused on satellite systems and network architecture. With a strong blue team background, he approaches space infrastructure from the defenders perspective. Today, he'll give us a practical introduction onto how satellite systems work and how the unique security challenges that come with protecting infrastructure that is literally operates in space. Ian, there

you go. Please welcome Ian. Thank you. Hear me? Yeah. Uh, I just had a big nice lunch, so hopefully all of you are well fed as well. Uh, well, let's start big space, the final frontier. These are not the voyages of Starship Enterprise. And each one of you probably had the same voice in their head. and I finally got to use this uh quote. Um I am going to talk about space sort of we'll be talking about satellite systems and I've been working for the last two years uh researching designing uh satellite systems and today I wish to bring to you an introduction to the infrastructure and to show what kind of challenges are more specific for satellite industry uh

to move away from classical IT infrastructure. Uh just short about me. Uh my name is Ian Zlat. I'm a security engineer in Afinisti Technologies. Uh mostly as I said I come from a blue team background and I've been now working for uh EU defense projects for European Union. Um first of all why does security of satellite infrastructure matter for for all of us today satellites being more and more used in modern communications. uh primarily for GNSS or GPS more commonly known. Uh can you imagine at some point GPS failing? Uh airplanes do not know where they are. Ships on the sea have to go back to charts looking at the stars. We have military communications

today even more important that they're secure uh that they're jamming resilient. satellite internet uh with more and more being pushed uh so uh areas without coverage can get uh access to internet broadcast TV perhaps you all had a modem at some point at home satellite uh TV weather forecast satellite imagery uh it's becoming more and more prominent that we are using satellites for more and more things and I'm going to dive straight into satellite infrastructure overview as this is going to be an introduction. I'll uh try not to go too deep. Uh and I'm going to start by separating uh the infrastructure. First of all, you can see that uh we separate into three segments with space segment having

mostly satellites. Logically, it can be one, it can be many satellites. We have user segments. It can be a ship. It can be a plane. It can be a helicopter. It can be a man with a satellite phone. So, anyone having their own personal terminal and receiving signals. And then we have the ground segment. Sometimes also we refer to it as the control segment. As the ground segment is where the operation operational part is happening. It's where the data is coming from and it's what controls the satellite uh the whole satellite infrastructure. And now going deeper into each of the segments one by one space segment primarily consists on one or more not necessarily interconnected satellites.

Uh we split them in three categories depending on their altitude. going from geostationary geostationary orbit satellites, medium uh orbit satellites and low earth orbit satellites. I'm going to go deeper into that but the important take is that the geostationary orbit satellites uh one satellite can cover a large area. They're much higher. So when you interconnect multiple satellites, uh geocatellite can perhaps control mosatellites which can then control LEO satellites and now you have a network infrastructure in space or it can only be one satellite. You simply have one satellite talking with the ground station and then that satellite forwarding to the user. Uh, of course it depends on the uh on the use case and multiple satellites usually uh working

together called the constellation. Um, now I wish to go a bit deeper into why we split this into LEO, mo and he which I'll get to in a bit and why it's important. Well, first of all, probably something that uh all of you care about is latency. Depending on how high the satellite is, the lower the latency. So, the use case is different. If you have less latency, you can play video games without a high ping. Yeah. If you have a high latency, well, maybe then some other use cases which uh do not care about latency are uh more prominent. uh for low earth orbit satellites going between 160 kilometers up to 2,000 which highly impacts their lifespan. You

send satellites, it's not cheap. It's expensive. So when you set send a satellite in orbit, you want you want it to last as long as possible, but the lower it is, the larger the atmospheric drag and the faster the satellite goes down. Why do you want to go lower or higher? Well, lower lower latency, higher more coverage. The higher you are, the less satellites you need to cover an area 247 or the whole globe. So, if you see when we go lower, the higher the satellite is, you only need three geo satellites to cover the whole globe. But it's on 35,786 kilometers. and the MS is suddenly 500 to 600 milliseconds round time depending on their uh on their or

altitude and on the ping and on their coverage. We have different you main case uses. Of course, all of them can probably be used interchangeably for anything. But if you're looking at lower satellites, for example, Starlink, most popular or one web, which would be European alternative, uh they're mostly used for communications. Exactly. because you have low latency times or for earth for observation if you need to have a close uh close imaging if you're too high imaging is going to be lower uh resolution medium earth satellites mostly used for navigation uh most popularly you all know about GPS so generally the global term is GNSS uh global navigation satellite systems But Galileo European BU Chinese

constellations and of course if you want to have uh redundancy perhaps you're not using only one of these systems you're using multiple for geostationary orbit most popular TV broadcasting you want high area you do not care if somebody gets 30 seconds uh later uh their TV signal they're not going to miss anything and of course for weather uh radio imaging of uh weather and sometimes fixed communications. And then highly elliptic orbit helioatellites are a bit specific because they can range from 400 to 36,000 kilometers. That means that at the point when they're closest to Earth, they're fastest. They're very close. And then they suddenly go into an elliptic orbit far away from Earth. But while

they are far away and while this elliptic orbit is much much longer, they have a longer coverage time of one particular area. And this is specifically and mostly used for polar regions where if you have Earth here, you suddenly spin and now you have a long long time before the satellite has to go quickly around back to have coverage of this polar region. Um now a bit about the actual satellites. So it's important we get some kind of context so we can later talk about how this translates to security and other parts of uh architecture. Um basically most of you probably know we have an antenna. It's used to receive and send the signal. After the antenna

is a transponder. What it does the signal that comes is usually different. The signal that comes is one frequency and the signal that has to go out is in a different frequency. So what you do is here you swap the frequencies towards the user. Uh it also has some other uh uh uses. It amplifies the signal because once the signal travels it loses strength so you need to amplify it back. We have command and data handling which is important as it handles all the commands and data coming from the ground station to the satellite. This can be um local it can be to uh manage the systems on the satellite itself. So guidance systems stabilization

uh positioning or it can be used for uh how the data is transferred further. Uh one more important thing to say is about transponders. There's two types. Interactive type and transparent type. Uh or if you have a proxy maybe more uh uh more closer terminology. Uh if you have a transparent proxy, the data comes in and it just goes through uh to the destination. Same in satellites. We also call it the bent pipe. So you send data, the data goes through, it simply just goes gets amplified and sent to the user. When it comes to interactive transponders, once they receive the data, they also demodulate the data, meaning they can get more information from the signal

itself. Uh the modulation happens on the satellite and then you can uh do more in the terms of error correction on the data. You can um introduce uh dynamic routing as now you know exactly where it has to go. Perhaps you can send it somewhere else first to some other satellite. Uh you get more options and these are at the moment a bit rarer. For example, Starlink has this in their second generation of satellites. They have interactive transponders. Mostly still it's transparent transponders. Uh now to the ground segment. Uh starting from the ground station. Probably a picture you all know is uh just a field full of antennas. Well that's exactly that. It's a field full

of antennas with a hub behind it. Hub is one or more modems that control the missions and they control they tell the antenna send it to that satellite. A new satellite is coming swap to a new satellite. So that is what one ground station does but we have multiple ground stations because sometimes you cannot cover satellites with only one one ground station or you need some kind of redundancy for it. This part would be our classical uh industrial control systems. So you control the antennas uh you control their positioning. There's a lot of systems here that would be classified as uh ICT uh not ICS. Uh from the hub we're going into the terrestrial network and this part of the

ground station would be our classical uh IT network. They have I have a lot of centers here uh numbered and uh if I went with just sorts uh sec PCC not spots a lot of these uh abbreviations sorts usually in our context would be security operation center in this case satellite operation center and it is the brain of the operation. It is what controls the satellite control center and payload control center. So one central location controlling these two things. What is satellite control center? It is the controls of the satellite in the operational uh meaning. So they control where the satellite is, how healthy the satellite is. they send uh the telemetry the commands towards the satellite. When it

comes to payload control center, it controls the payload. So the data we are sending, it doesn't control the data itself. It controls how the data is sent. It controls the bandwidth it's used. It controls uh how the data is going to be routed. We have the network operation center and it's a bit specific at it only works with ground station. So with the ground segment to be more specific and the portable operation center in case uh you're in a battlefield or in some area where there is no uh no ground stations uh you can have a mobile operation center uh with satellite operation controls and payload controls. And now to the user segment. Well, I

said users can be anything. It can be a human with a phone. It can be a modem on your satellite dish on your house, on ship, on the plane, helicopter. It can even be a drone. Uh I split it down and simplified a bit. Uh usually we call it the user terminal and the user terminal has its uh front end RF front end where it uh receives the signals. It has a digital processing usually called the modem unit where the signal is being transferred from uh so actually here before the signal is being transferred from analog to digital and during digital processing we are pulling the data and information from the signal itself and then we send that data to the

network or application in the background. quite actually simple. And this simplified version back when we were talking about the hub is the same thing just scaled uh and uh with a lot more uh options and uh possibilities. Now then we have now that we have uh segments covered between them is a waveform. It's a link that connects the ground station, the ground segment with a space segment to the user segment. Waveform defines how digital data is transmitted over the radio signal. It tells us how we're going to modulate it. So, how the bits are encoded within the signal. It uh does the forward error connection. So it makes sure the signal survives noise uh traveling

and it controls the bandwidth usage exactly how efficiently the spectrum is used to send this data. Uh when we're talking about the waveform uh we have an uplink when we talk about uh going from the ground segment to the satellite and down link going from the satellite to the user segment. This can also be a vice versa. Or if we are talking about the full link between the ground segment to the user, we say it's a forward link or a return link. Uh well yeah uh so a waveform um when we're talking about waveforms uh we have certain standards how we actually uh define a waveform. The most common one and popular would be DVB. So digital

video broadcasting and uh uh SS S2 S2X are versions satellite satellite 2 satellite 2 extended that is the most popular one. The one that's getting more popular and it's getting uh new standardizations with new versions is 5G NTN. So 5G non-aterrestrial network for non-aterrestal networks. And this uh 5G, it's planned that in 6G is going to have uh actual support for uh non-aterrestrial networks and satellite communications. Right now, it's just a version that's been uh updated at some point. Okay. So, what is the attack service we have to protect here? We have the space segment, the user segment, the ground segment, and the links. When it comes to ground segment, you truly have your classical ICT network uh infrastructure

which I'm not going to talk that much about because I believe every one of you here has has already heard about this a lot. There's been a numerous attack types of attacks on satellite infrastructure and most of them go straight there because that's the easy win. That's where you get through the terrestrial networks. Uh we have the uplink and down link. The waveform the waveform is just a physical signal which can be it can be messed with. It can be intercepted. Uh it is not secure by default. You have to encrypt the data you're sending. Uh we have the satellite which is physically unreachable making it a bit harder for the attackers. uh what they have to do they have to

pretend they're they have to authenticate as a authentic uh user as a ground segment or user and uh today that's a bit harder as uh most uh mostly the waveforms are well uh encrypted and uh the satellites uh require strong authentication and we have user equipment which has quite easy access I mean I left my laptop here maybe has a link to satellite Right. Uh and it's uh users are generally more prone to attacks. Uh the specific thing with satellites is they're in space and it's hard to update them, hard to upgrade them. So most of the satellites are usually as uh probably with um industrial control systems old and uh that can pose quite a problem

with the new uh satellites being launched. Uh these things get patched but it's uh it's a very long process. So still older satellites can be quite vulnerable uh to these kinds of uh these kinds of uh approach. Um one more thing that I do want to mention and that is the down link. When satellite sends um signal to the user, it is not a one single line a point. It is a beam. It is a large area that is covered and that is uh that is the crux of the problem when it comes to jamming interruptions and uh interception because it is not only the user that is listening to it is every single person in a large radius around

that user and the and the higher the satellite is this radius is obviously larger. So I have a question for all of you now that we uh check the ground stations, the space segment, the uh user segment. How many ground stations are needed to find the satellite location? Does anyone have an idea? Four, >> two, >> three. Okay. And what do you think? How would they do it? >> Triangulation. Okay, so free is the correct answer and I this is actually one of the first things I learned when I uh when I started working in infinity. Uh I was talking with them and they told me they're working on new project and they said yeah we have to implement uh we

have a multiple ground stations and we need to find out where the satellite is so we are now implementing it and they ask what do you think how do we do it and then it clicked to me if maybe even now but in before if you remember Wi-Fi store tracking so you would walk into a store with your phone Wi-Fi on and the store would know exact location where you are and map where you're moving is the same What they do? They need three ground stations to create spheres of influence. And these ground stations on uh based on signal strength since uh when signal is traveling it reduces in strength by the uh by the square of

distance. Uh they can calculate how far the satellite is but they don't know where it is. So now we're making spheres of influence around these three ground stations. And yes uh then with free ground stations we can find where exactly this satellite is and except triangulation sometimes it's also referred to as uh trilateration. Now, um I did say at the beginning that uh we're going to talk a bit about uh why satellite communications are important for us and then I mentioned GNSS uh military communications etc. And uh then was researching I found uh you can quite easily find this uh it's on flight flight trader GPS jam. Uh when it comes to GNSS it's one of the most uh jammed

systems in the world and it is one of the most used systems. You might have it in your phone on your um on your watch. Uh planes use it, ships use it, drones use it, missiles use it, whatever. So now you can see now you can see exactly the red dots and yellow dots are where the jamming is happening and this map just to make sure the data is from the airplanes and flights going through this area. So uh the areas that have no data obviously no flights have been have reported any data. Uh but what you can see is a clear trend of uh jamming along uh uh the borders with Russia, Bellarus, Ukraine,

uh Black Sea and then around the Middle East. And uh when it comes to jamming incidents, there has been some quite famous ones with EO Commission President uh Vel something uh uh on in 2025 she was traveling from Warso at uh Bulgaria and lo and behold but uh this is the area of influence of jammers and her flight was jammed. uh the Eastern European Baltic region, the whole region has seen jamming at this scale from 2020 to the present. And uh most interestingly, just recently in Kuwait, three uh US F-15s were shot down. And this is just speculation is a hearsay, let's say. But uh the heavy jamming might have caused failures in their systems and them mistaking the the

friendlies for enemies and shooting them down. So what can we do against jamming? We have some anti-jamming techniques we use. Uh first of all, strict brute force power control. Someone is jamming you, that means they have to send a stronger signal than you. Well, you go and send a stronger signal again. So, with power control, if you have enough power, well, nobody's going to jam you. But, of course, it means energy, it means money, it's a lot of cost, and it's a lot of infrastructure. Then we have beam forming. Beam forming means taking multiple antennas and then creating uh with their signals creating a zone which is a specific point. So no longer do you have uh no longer do you have uh

one one antenna just uh making a broad uh uh sending a broad signal. you have multiple antennas uh inter overlapping and then having one focal point and then in that way strengthening the signal for that particular user let's say uh we have advanced antenna systems it means that an antenna can at one point of antenna these systems are quite expensive big can make um n gain field meaning that this exact point so this exact uh area that's coming to the antenna is no longer looked at. So we remove the source of jamming. We have frequency copying since when you send a signal it's on some frequency and there is a low frequencies depending on uh uh

while you're sending depending on uh which um spectrum you are at. You can imagine this as a like as a box and then a lot of dots in the box and sure now we're at this dot in the box and we have to hop fast because they try to catch us. They try to jam that specific frequency. So you start hopping between frequencies. Of course that means that whoever you're talking to needs to know at which frequency you're going to be talking to. This uh this code that you share between needs to be pre-shared. Uh with frequency hopping I also come to two types of jamming. Uh one is narrow band and one is wide band. Narrow band

means you're jamming just one frequency which is simpler but you're jamming exa but you're jamming exactly one frequency. With the wide band you try and jam a whole spectrum of frequencies which is more of course more expensive. Uh the energy consumptions are quite big then. And last and not least, we have adaptive coding and modulations. Uh I already said modula modul modulation within wafer means encoding the bits into the signal. So we just do it more resiliently. We cram um more uh error corrections on the way. So it's harder to it's harder to make mis it's harder to not get something out of the noise. Um okay that would be with anti-jamming. I have a I made a very nice picture using

PowerPoint here uh that uses a drone to jam. It's a very nice modern technique where uh they start flying with drones around your uh around your user equipment or your uh satellite dishes and then uh jam you directly above. They stand between you. uh more and more popular uh especially in the last few years. And now a more interesting uh thing is military communications. And now in the last two year two and three years it's been a a big big mess. So, this is a mess and it's a bunch of it's a bunch of uh planes, ships, um jammers, uh vehicles, ground um troops that all use electronic signals to communicate with each other to find their position.

So what at this point happened is suddenly we can describe the front line front line from these signals. You can you can literally take a map and we talked about how easy it is to find something from you have three points and you can find with triangulation where of where something is. So something that's emitting signal you can always find it. Suddenly you can make a map. You use uh the strength of the signals and you start mapping where you are and where the enemy is and you can draw a line of the battlefield just using radio waves on on it. And uh to solve these problems and of course uh when it comes to

military communications uh you have to be resilient to jamming. Uh it needs to be encrypted, secured, usually using some kind of pre-shared keys and it needs to be uh well in integrity integrity maybe um integrity maybe a bit less. You can always push through uh with multiple times but uh confidentiality and availability most definitely are a big uh big thing here. Uh what do they do? They try to hide the signals in plain sight. They either use uh narrow beams and do them in bursts. So you send a quick fast burst at random inter intervals to to prevent them from finding out exactly where you are perhaps and finding out that signal. You try to lower the signal power. It might

be a bit harder than to listen to it as well, but you need to know where to listen. Um they can use decoys and deceptions. They use decoy signals uh try to make you think that there is something there is not. So uh military communications has become a play of uh cat and mice uh playing with signals and trying to find out trying to find out where the enemy is. Um and maybe something a bit uh more fun now. uh broadcast TV. Uh maybe a bit less hacked today, but uh one of the first hacks, most popular ones, um the Captain Midnight HBO hijack. And what do I mean by satellite signal hijacking? I mean the waveform itself. So you're not

sending something from the ground station or from the satellite. You're pretending to be the ground station or the satellite. In the case of uplink hijack, I already said we are hijacking the link towards the satellite. We are pretending we are the ones uh that are supposed to send a signal. And uh 1986 uh this was uh the picture everyone looking east coast of US uh watching HBO had uh from Captain Midnight. Uh but then in more modern times uh in 2013 the Syrian state TV uh signal got up got hijacked and then uh they had some kind of anti- uh regime propaganda played. Uh but when it comes to down spoofing, it means faking that we are the

satellite. And in 2020, the Iranian state TV uh got uh also hijacked uh with anti-regime messages. Uh generally this is sold by public access control. So making sure uh what's coming to the satellite is really authorized. Uh continuous spectrum monitoring so you know if some rogue device is suddenly sending signals that are not supposed to be there. uh uplink signal geolocation. If you're sending a signal, as we already established, you're visible. At that point, uh someone might find you and you can find a rogue device. uh encryption logically and uh strong physical access controls. Uh more for user segment and uh more actually for ground segment where uh at some points it is possible to uh actually enter the

uh antenna stations that might be that might not be a part of um the antenna station the ground station might be in some uh part of the country where there's nothing absolutely nothing. So if somebody gets there, he might try and hijack signal from the antenna itself. Um, and I have two bonuses here. So in 2022 when the attack on the Ukraine happened, uh, maybe a pretty known hack uh, viaat hack of their satellite systems. Uh but that did not happen by satellite signal hijacking but directed the VPN was uh the VPN was hacked towards the ground segment systems and then uh the rest of the tech happened. I think someone here is has a presentation

on that later so you might be hearing about it more. Uh there was also um Defcon satellite village uh promoted uh Devcon satellite village uh where they were uh trying to hack satellite systems. They were allowed access to one of US military satellites if I'm not mistaken and then they tried to hack it. uh direct hacks of the satellite um are not that quite known and that they were some kind of that there were some major incidents perhaps either not uh publicly disclosed or it's uh lesser known uh public satellites. Um and uh thank you for listening. That would be it from me. I also found while researching a little uh tech like knowledgebased framework for space

systems from ESSA. So you can see a bit more about uh their uh matrixes uh on their site. Uh if there are any questions uh you can ask them. Yeah. Thanks.

Hey one, first of all, thank you for your time. It was really nice to hear stuff related to uh satellite network. My question is you're saying from the beginning the satellites are communicating each other's uh uh between them. Am I correct? >> For example, satellites from GEO are communicating with satellites who are in Mio and LEO. Do we know who is in charge? Who is having priority during that communication? Does satellite who are in geo geo zone have a higher priority for that communication? So when we talk about uh a satellite in uh satellite connections in the space itself uh it depends if you have for example uh starling they might only have LEO satellites and they have they

communicate between each other. So uh they also uh route the route the traffic uh between each other talk uh perhaps go and uh uh act as uh uh availability measures if one of them is down. When we talk about Mio and Gio, sometimes when you talk want to talk to multiple satellites and they're on a large area >> and you want to talk with and you need to talk with all of them at the same time, then you're going to use a geo satellite who can cover who is above them and has a beam that's covering these satellites as well. So what you do is you're not sending uh information to one less satellite and then waiting for

the second one to come into the range of your ground station but you simply send it to the geocatellite and then uh prop ask it to propagate down. Uh this of course uh I'm not sure who exactly has this kind of architecture but it's one of the possible uh retextures. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for applying. Yeah.

With the surge of the usage of the satellite uh like being available to the normal users like retail users, do you as a as a security professional uh let's say think that uh the attacks to satellite systems will become more prominent and so that you will we will start seeing more patterns of uh cyber security attacks to satellite systems. >> Yeah. uh at this point uh in presentations as you've seen I've mostly focused on the attacks on the waveform itself on the signal and jamming is the most prominent and the easiest of them to do as to actually detect the satellite you need to have uh a lot of knowledge not only of uh cyber security

but about radio frequencies about signals so um more knowledge is needed But the amount of uh satellite communications used at the moment and I think right now especially in the times we are living it it's more prominent. So the so I wouldn't be surprised if the state actors uh are working on getting their capabilities up not to target necessarily just ground segment which is easier to get into but the target satellites as well. Plus you can always get the bigger satellite and destroy the smaller one. Yeah. >> Uh okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh regarding the uh signal hijacking >> Mhm. >> Uh we had a well in my company we do satellite broadcasting and we had a

unique experience once uh with uh the regards uh so it wasn't a full uh signal hijack but more like a denial of service. So, as you may know, to broadcast to a satellite, you must connect to it with basically what's what's a kind of like a TCP handshake, first what you do, you broadcast uh something that's called a clean carrier. Basically, just one frequency clean signal and then it it does a handshake and then starts broadcasting on the down link. Uh when you are broadcasting, if somebody else broadcast a clean carrier over you, it will block the down link. So the satellite will think you want to basically like somebody sends uh uh client RST to the to the satellite

instead of you but on on the layer on layer one so it doesn't need authentication and uh we were broadcasting a TV program for a foreign client that had a Kurdish uh program and uh somebody broadcast well you you need a pretty strong uh transmitter to broadcast a link carrier. Somebody uh broadcast a clink carrier through our signal and blocked the down link of that specific program on that slot. Uh I will not go into attribution. We all know who it was but you can probably probably guess but uh the denial of service is much easier than the hijacking the signal because you don't need authentication. You can just punch through us with a clink carrier

and uh you stop the ninkling. >> Yeah, but that's uh that's the point. I mean I'm talking about anti-geming but any kind of uh signal interference is uh probably easier as uh as long as you can uh create I mean not only that you can either do it on physical level because it's physics basically at the end so you can do uh physical interference constructive or destructive interference or you can do something like this using the satellite uh >> yeah something maybe related to this so how is the frequency space right now Is it crowded? Is it overcrowded with all of those satellites going up? I think more and more in the ho part of the

stratosphere or whatever it's called outer space. And uh what can one do? Uh is it like heavily regulated? So you need to get a frequency slot or something like that. How can you protect your own slot or something like that from jamming or something? So frequency ranges are regulated. They know exactly uh which band is supposed to be used for which use case. Military has KQ bands if I'm not mistaken. Might be I'm might be a bit uh I know a bit less about that maybe. Um and but when you talk about this there is specific frequency ranges for uh commercial satellites. So in within the commercial satellites they know this is your frequency this is

your frequency range and there is there should be enough of it I may not be the best person to answer this question uh but within your range uh the others let's say other um other providers should not be on your frequency range that the slot that you have gained inside this band. Now if uh if you ask me if uh someone else is going to get into your frequent may I if they want to stop you and they know what exactly your frequency uh ranges then they'll get into it.

>> Thank you for the exercise. It's very nice. I wanted to ask how how easy and how accurate it is to uh to spot an interference like accuracy in terms of is it malicious or is it just for from another source and how easy it and how fast also is is to recover from it like to apply the measures that you described like how fast you can recover. >> Okay. So first we can say uh interference come from uh attackers. So that's one side and the other side is natural phenomena. So of course if the signal is going through clouds, rain, uh thunderstorms, uh it's likely you'll have uh uh the signal strength is going to suffer. Um

they have uh wide depending on the maturity of the infrastructure that you're working on. Of course uh they do have um real time adaptive um mechanisms that they use. Not I I don't think I'm going to go specifically into watch because I might get lost as well. Um but uh they do it on the so they do it in multiple places. They do it on the ground station at the antenna. If the antenna sees it can uh do some kind of corrections. They know if it's uh if it's a thunderstorm then of course they know they will have a lower type a lower strength of signal. So they'll perhaps boost the signal for that period of

time. And if it's an attacker and suddenly you see disturbances, that really depends on how much did you invest and work on your anti-jeming resilience because maybe you have uh multiple uh ground stations and then uh you can simply swap to another one that's not jammed if the jamming is on the ground station. if the satellite itself is jammed, which is a bit harder since you're sending basically energy into space. But um uh where uh and then um they can uh okay, so that's one place at the antennas themselves. Then the modems do the correction if they see that the signal is not going through. And you can notice uh I said uh spectrum monitoring

and analysis is one of the techniques they use. Uh so you can monitor the frequencies if everything is going through up and down. If it's not then uh you can quite certainly at uh if the conditions are good say okay perhaps I'm being jammed you can move the frequency. So you can tell the satellite, okay, we're moving to the next frequency. If you do not have a uh frequency hopping itself and then when you move the frequency, if it's still the same, it might still be the same problem. Um we might discuss it if you want more. >> Yeah, he's here all day. So you you can chat about that. Any u more questions? Well, thank you for the lovely lovely

presentation. We'll see you all back