Building The Future Of Cyber With Neurodiversity In Mind - Lucy Smith & Emily Chittell

[Applause] welcome welcome I'm told I need to stand here if it's going to be recorded which is really annoying because I've got a big screen in front of me and I can't I'm little too short I'm really little anyway right we have got about 35 minutes to talk about building the future of cyber with neurodiversity in mind with that said we use slido so if anybody wants to join us on slido okay we have code I'm pretty sure that's that's a code of some kind okay who knows I've done that already people because I have an NSC token behind my little card here and the amount of people that say yeah okay and I press it in front of them and they go

oh what website have I just gone on to social engineering just saying okay so slido code is there it will come up as we as we move through and there is a question that will pose which is what is does neurodiversity mean to you as we go through that will build a word cloud if you want to join in you can if you don't that's totally fine as well okay but before I go too much further I think we need to make an introduction don't we Emily yeah we're not there we go who are we so who are we to come and talk to you my name is Lucy I'm Lucy Smith I'm the founder of an

organization called inclusive change and inclusive of change we talk about building the future of work with neurodiversity in mind I talk about neurodiversity every day all day even at home my kids are fed up with it and they're autistic okay and my poor husband my husband printed these lovely cassette tapes so if anybody wants a a fiddle we can pass them around a lot of people have got them already there we go so even my husband gets bored of it but anyway we talk about building the future of work with neurodiversity in mind today we're going to apply that to cyber and I'm going to ask Emily to introduce herself hi my name's Emily uh I've been working

with inclusive change since uh about six months ago now um I am a recent graduate of University of b mature as you may tell um definitely not the same age as the other people in my class um um and this was my first job coming out of uni this is just the best studies applied Computing I got first class honors thank you very much thank you thanks I suspect I'm slightly neurod Divergent I've never been diagnosed but I seem to fit in quite well with all the other neurod Divergent people in our company so say that what you will but yes I'm here to stay with me I've never done anything like this before I have this is Emily's

First Time public speaking it's not mine I don't know if you can tell but yes Round of Applause for Emily okay when I talk about neurodiversity I come at it from different levels depending on who I'm talking to but usually in a group like this I talk about a word called perspective and I quite often ask people what's your perspective on neurodiversity okay because people will have different perspectives and one of those can be and nothing I'm just here to soak it up and find out what this is all about and another one can be I'm autistic or I have ADHD or I'm autistic and I have ADHD so everybody will have different perspectives and asking a

question in that way means that I get lots of different answers and people feel safer about me instead of me going hey have you got

ADHD but my perspective and the way the the words I have on this screen are that change begins with passionate people who have a vision and I have a vision I'm not going to lecture you about that we're going to talk about neurodiversity and cyber so we're going to go into a bit of detail what's on our track well we're going to talk about neurodiversity have I said that about 16 times already maybe 25 you might hear it about another 300 times you're supposed to be taking a shot every time you say that yes oh my God You' be absolutely totally scan the room but there we go right okay we're going to talk about things like

Recruitment and Retention okay we're going to talk about culture and I'm particularly going to talk about the future of work because I am really passionate about the future of work and anybody that's talked to me already today will know how passionate I am about the future of work young people generation Zed and generation Alpha okay so Emily hi the value of neurodiversity and cyber tell us more so many values uh okay excuse my notes I'm sorry if I look down I'm not so at memorizing things and this is all very new uh let's consider um first of all um enhanced problem solving abilities so uh typ let's just start by saying this isn't a one-sized fits all this isn't

all autistic people this isn't all nor Divergent people but there are people out there that have enhanced problem solving abilities um they think outside the box they bring another level of thinking to your team projects so uh the more diver your team is the more diverse it is the more you're bringing to the table the more you're able to problem solve um we could also consider creativity and Innovation um people with ADHD can possess a high level of creativity and new ideas all the time D just popping off because that's how their brains work and a lot of those are also going to be really great for your teams um let's recognize some special skills and focus so that hyperfocus that

ADHD people can get into don't know if anyone's got experience of that that is literally go away don't talk to me I'm into this and I'm going to solve it and I'm going to get to it and it's nothing else is there's no exteriors to that I'm just in here mine right now is crochet right I 53 last week and mine is crochet Dolly Parton and crochet together join them intersectionality you've got it all I know when I was doing assignments I'm a parent to a 12-year-old although I don't feel like I was while I was doing my assignment she would come to the room and I would literally hold my hand up because just

that mommy no I can't I'm just I'm into this I need to finish this paragraph please don't talk to me so yeah there is this um let's talk about resilience and adaptability um neurod Divergent people have often had to navigate through life on their terms in a world that does not necessarily fit with how they think so they find their own way so they're very resilient so if there's changes they're good with that they can move with that because that's how they've also lived their lives um and adaptability as well you know put yourself in a situation and you have to adapt to the room don't you that's kind of how it goes doesn't it um beyond

their technical contributions we could also talk about empathy and advocacy for accessibility that's a big one how many people on your teams are obsessed with accessibility because we should be that should be a thing and I think people who have experienced non-accessible softwares are going to be the ones who point that out and say this isn't working for a certain group of people um the last thing I want to talk about and this isn't necessarily everyone as someone ADHD potentially I don't like change when I'm somewhere that I'm comfortable I'm going to stay there if I feel like I'm supported if I feel like the job aligns with my skills and what I can do even if someone offers me an

extra 20 grand a year I'm going to stay where I am because that's who supported me that's where I'm comfortable and it's just easier it's just easier than move around isn't it loyalty yes it means a lot I'm an employer Loyalty means a lot to me I'm going to go back for a couple of slides and see if anything came up not yet I may not have worked out the tech properly yes it says start presenting to display the polls for results on this slide not on an iPad today so bear with we'll we'll pick those out later my turn now to talk about neurodiversity and um I do lots of presentations and workshops and I can

spend about 3 hours just talking about this circle okay this circle I talk about h a neurod Divergent umbrella okay so terminology neurodiversity we're all neurodiverse neurodiversity is kind of the the the movement or the the thing okay neurod Divergent may very well describe people who are not who who may have ways of thinking and process in the world that do not appear to be the social norms all right that's the best way that I can think of saying that without without upsetting lots of people okay but lots of people think in different ways by lots of people around 20% of the population that we know of but there probably is plenty more that we don't

know of yet okay got some stats coming up for you in a moment the neurod Divergent umbrella under that we have lots of different conditions that I would talk about and I'll use the word conditions in medical diagnostic terms you will see other words that I don't particularly like but they're there things like disc calcula dyslexia uh we have autism uh ADHD tourettes we also have OCD or obsessive compulsive disorder uh we have panic disorders we even got neurot typicality written in this particular Circle so there's a whole range of different conditions and differences that fall under this world of neurodiversity but I'm going to play a little game I want to quck is and a bit

of audience participation so my question is who do you know and what do they have in common so on this screen we have some faces you can just shout out if you want to and if you don't want to shout out it's okay because I'll give you the answers in a minute apart from one because I always forget his name uh so who have we got on the screen I don't even know who that is who's that Chris Packham yes the governor and hegy anybody else mus Elon Musk I always worry I wonder whether I should put him in there sometimes cuz he doesn't please me quite a lot I think a lot of the room would

agree no but you know we kind of go for it we might not couple of others on there you've got Holly smell at the top with blonde hair so up here I can't say right or left because I never know what's your right and what's my left so I don't say it just point Holly smil is the author of a book called geek girl um and she didn't know she was ah I just almost said what they have in common uh you also have the lady with the blonde hair at the bottom is Daryl Hannah and we have the inventor of um Pokemon and I can never remember his name so and I know it begins with an S

Ste no it's not it's not it's on the tip yes I think it's something like Satoshi but I cannot remember his name but is the is he created Pokemon his last name starts with a h there we go look it up shout it out in a minute okay go on got it satachi Tajiri although satachi Tajiri we're gonna go with that thank you I knew it was sa moving what are they having in common guys did just give you the answer they're autistic so they're all autistic they've all talked about their autism they've all declared disclosed etc etc and on this page who do you know and what do they have in common simes M Phelps Michael

Phelps comedian do you know what her name is shaffy Candi I think it is Justin Timber JT Justin Timberlake how anybody said the chef H who else we got will I am and did we have the guy next to Simone I can't Ryan Goin what do they have in common ADHD ADHD Iana has been to one of my sessions before don't cheat anybody let her answer anymore no please answer all right please answer they've all got ADHD any surprises on there from the choir I think not yeah but what I'm trying to show is that neurodiversity doesn't have a look it doesn't have a face it doesn't have a thing yeah so who do you know and what

do they have in common Jamie Oliver yeah k k night Tom Holly Will yes who said it Maggie yes doctor Maggie or I think she might be Professor Maggie adarin pook what do they have in common dle dyslexic Jamie Oliver at one point I think he was the author of the bestselling non-fiction book ever and he's dis just say because you can get other people to do stuff about to say probably some some help with that I've been a ghost writer I write for other people so that's just a bit of okay let's let's bow this down people look different there are many people who are celebrities who are very privileged to get to the places that they've got

through their talent through whatever means but nevertheless neurodiversity is everywhere in this room at least 20% of us will be neurodivergent I'm going to Hazard a guess that it's going to be higher than that in this room because of where we are and what we're talking about so key statistics around one in seven of the UK population is neurod Divergent which roughly comes out in that statistic I think it's about 15% but I'm crap at Mass so don't don't test me on it approximately 25% of CEOs are dyslexic autistic graduates are twice as likely to be unemployed after 15 months than non-disabled graduates so we're getting a bit deeper into our statistics now it's all good fun to think about oh

these people do this these people do that but if autistic graduates are twice as likely to be unemployed than non-disabled graduates and only 36% finding work in that period That's a sobering statistic they're also more likely to be overqualified for the job that they have just leaving that there as a sobering statistic a few other points now employers are obliged to put in place reasonable adjustments I can talk for three hours on that topic all right you're going to get about 3 seconds so under the equality act 2010 if an employee has a disability and guess what neurodiversity falls with under that um descriptor or that definition of disability in the equality act you have to put reasonable

adjustments in place again I can talk for three hours about this as of October 2023 wait times for NHS ADHD and autism assessments were as long as 8.5 years just let that sink in if you think you've got ADHD and you've asked for an assessment in your GP you may have to wait up to 8.5 years if you're employed and your world is falling apart because your ADHD is impacting the way you work and everything about your life you need support before you get a medical diagnosis and only 49% of organization surveyed in this particular survey and this was from text help uh state that disability and inclusion policies are important to them should have been an audible gasp I

think should we try that again yeah only 49% of organization surveyed state that the disability and inclusion policies are important to them thank you I'm going to briefly go through these because I know we won't have time for it all some of the things that happened to Divergent employees is they find it difficult to concentrate they're unable to sit still or feel comfortable but they're super creative they're incredible at being able to think creatively they're good at problem solving so there's a whole range of different things that neurod Divergent people are fantastic at if you want to know more I suggest you take a look at city and Guild's neurodiversity index for 2024 a brilliant resource the link

is on that page if you want to take a photo uh but similarly just Google it all right neurodiversity index 2024 you will find it Emily hi me again a short moment on current challenges in Tech and cyber well I think we could probably all agree that a deficit in employees and future employes is probably a huge problem for Tech and cyber um where does that stem from education again probably I could talk about that for a few hours because my dissertation was on it about the Ed Computer Science Education in this country is not geared to welcoming people into the industry it's too scary for people um and so it was going to face a huge shortage of um what am I

looking for Workforce um talent talent that's the word yes um compounding this issue uh is not just the curriculums it's also the teachers we've got no teachers no actual qualified computer science teachers a lot of teachers will take English or math as they're teaching and then maybe they might do a bit of computing on the side but during my dissertation most Computing teachers that I met were PE teachers or they were Math teachers gey so you see the problem yes um so again there there's two huge issues we're not encouraging people into the curriculum and also we're not teaching them effectively there's no pedagogies am I saying that word right no pedagogies that I discovered for

teaching computer science from a primary school level to secondary school they have resources coming out of their ears but don't actually have any ways of teaching they're not taught how to teach it um what else oh rapidly evolving threats I mean that's obviously the biggest issue is even if you are learning at University maybe by the time you get into a job that's relevant now and now you have to learn all about this so that's also an issue um burnout and retention anyone anyone relate to that then yeah there we go few people will relate to that so yeah we're not really looking after our Workforce either um yeah those are they're my biggest a MM

plenty of challenges have any Recruiters in here excellent okay so huge problems in the recruitment industry uh I can speak from experience because I spent seven to eight months sending off my CV and trying to get a job as a reskilled person as a mature person as someone who just come out of University um I was getting absolutely nowhere networking events for my savior thank you Ilana and that's how I got a job um but going the traditional routes there's so many flaws with it that's coming from what I would perceive as a neurotypical point of view now let's think about it from a neuro Divergent point of view so the wording on a recruitment on a job

you're talking about must be a good team player excellent communication skills these are all vague things that you want people to be able to do but that's not the strongest point of someone who has autism they might have the skills and they might be able to outperform anyone in that job but maybe they're not eloquent maybe they are awkward with people and so when they look at these job descriptions that's a put off straight away no I'm not I'm not into talking I'm not talking um and all of that so there's that say that the uh person ends up actually getting through uh and sending off their CV and say they come to to a an interview that's hard as

well they might be awkward they might be withdrawn it might be very difficult the eye contact might not be there and that HR person might be a very neurotypical person who is then demonstrating some unconscious bias because all you're not like me and I don't think you're going to fit into this team because you're not chatting away with me um but you're missing out on a massive poll of talent if that's going to be your thought process on hiring people um I'm sorry I've lost my notes sorry uh that's the interview process um oh standardized assessments um all of this you sometimes have to go through three or four assessments or you even talk to

someone on the phone at this company there's something wrong with that right we're talking about timed assessments so for anyone who's Autistic or ADHD seeing that clock tick tick tick tick down while you're trying to do an assessment in order to get a job is like heart-wrenching your heart is out of your chest it's not fun it's like taking an exam you know what I mean it's not relaxing it's not nice your skills are there but you're not able to demonstrate it because you're just watching this clock tick by him so yeah he don't really yeah anyway that's I'm only doing that yeah we right of cuz I've got a clock in front of me and I'm like oh and

the guy who's going to be talking afterwards is in this room I think so um or if he's not I no he's not anyway right we talked a little bit about recr recuitment uh bit about retention so just thinking about your workplace and your environment thinking about culture and more one of the most important things I found in the past six years since I've been working in this particular area line management support supporting training investing and upskilling your line managers and supervisors so they can support neurod Divergent teens I'm going to give you a little nugget from myself which is that I truly believe that understanding neurodiversity is the next level in high performing teams and business um

performance so if you think about leadership and management and the things you will have learned at University and business school I've been there I've done that I've lectured in that understanding neurodiversity is going to unlock an incredible amount of potential in anybody's teams but doing it means you need to do this kind of stuff you need to be thinking about line management you need to be thinking about how you support individuals to be their best in the workplace we're going to talk about a few other things now and there are a whole range of different things that come part and parcel of being neurod Divergent because you ain't just a neurod Divergent person you're not just an autistic person

you're not just a person with ADHD you're probably going to be a woman you may be black and statistics for black women who are autistic getting a job just does doesn't it blows your mind the level of difficulty that it may be because you have that level of intersectionality in your personality and who you are I get on my Soap Box about this and I get I sound a bit bossy when I talk about these kind of things so I'm going to move on and I'm going to get my crystal ball out and I've been called a witch at least twice this week because I am not a witch I don't have a crystal ball but I

can predict the future that's something I've been able to do for a number of years true so what about the future the reason I talk about the future of work and I alluded to it at the beginning of this section is the next Generation I can't give you stats on generation Alpha but I can talk about generation Zed generation Zed or gen Z as we might like to call them because it rolls off the tongue a bit better born between 1997 and 2012 coming into the workforce they're in the workforce there's going to be a hell of a lot more of them the workforce 90 million of them let me tell you a few things

53% of generation Zed in a survey and this came from textel uh a rather large company um say that they identify as neurod divergent 53% of generations said identify as neurod divergent just think about that and why then you need to think about neurodiversity in your hiring policies in your line Management training in the future of your business just in policies just in your policies um 76% though 76% of neurod Divergent employees do not disclose at work so you're in a bit of a rocking a hard place if you employ because you're going to say well they didn't tell me they were autistic they don't have to quity act 2010 you don't have to tell

somebody that you are Autistic or that you have ADHD if they have a suspicion and they know they need to do something about it again I can talk for three hours on that what does that mean for Tech and cyber I know we're not going to have much time to answer that question because we have to finish in about four minutes time maybe even less than four minutes but what does that mean that means you need to think differently that means you need to think about how we're going to attract talent for the future how are you going to engage with schools how are you going to do things for um young people who are coming into

companies and coming into the workplace that think and say and um what do you do about neurodiversity how are you going to support me in my workplace and if you're a panel member asked that question by a young person what are you going to think just leaving that question there so we're going to round up I've got three takeaways okay like my takeaways although they do look a bit I'm not really into it Chinese for me takeaway number one promote increased awareness and understanding of neurodiversity have people like me and Emily come and talk to you come and talk to your teams let's talk about it the more we start the conversation I promise you the better

it's going to get takeway number two address stigma and promote a healthy Workforce gen Z want a work life balance they want a healthy Workforce they want to work somewhere that aligns with their values and what they think about the world promote a health healthy workplace and don't just promote it just do it just be it because we can talk about it but it's still a bit crap sometimes just being honest there and takeway number three consider how to engage the Next Generation and What needs to change in your organizations to engage them think about how you're going to get them on board and you're going to keep them because we Blum in need them this is our company

inclusive change you can just Google inclusive change but if you've got one of these we've actually put our name in it all right okay so not only is it a little stim but it's it's got our name in it if you want to know more we do lots of events on the 17th of September we're online talking about access to work which is a fabulous scheme that lots and lots of people can take part in funded by the government find out more at that one and if you want a free takeaway yes it's a QR code I haven't got any horrible things in my website I promise you you might get some emails from us automated in a work workflow

that say hey thanks for doing this come and join us at something else but I ask for your email address and you can get a free ebook all about um you can unsubscribe yeah you can don't tell them they can unsubscribe neuro Divergent people yes you can unsubscribe or you can end up like me with 300 emails a say that's what that is the end of our talk thank you very much thank you

Emily I apologize my slido didn't work but it's because my batter is nearly dead on my laptop and being a bit ADHD I forgot to bring my charger um any questions if we've got time oh we have okay oh we' got We R ahead so we' got I thought we had yeah thought we

had oh we had that how were you listening to us at lunch how strange that exact conversation it's a massive massive challenge so capturing young people who were struggling through school um my story is that I have an 18-year-old and a 16-year-old who are both autistic both of them have had a typical experiences through school one left school at 12 and we we've been fortunate so we've been able to do lots of different things but I experien and see and help we support at inclusive change lots of people who have had adverse experience experiences in in school it is really difficult the only thing I'm going to say because from experience of working with some

different organizations is that I am starting to see some people wanting to do something about it and make Challen changes in primary school so I'm seeing changes in primary school not around Computing should but around neurodiversity yeah um secondary schools there is so much to contend with there are so many challenges that it is just super difficult for them and they don't have the knowledge awareness and understanding send Co which is a special educational needs coordinator in a school get one day of training in their teacher training I say one sorry teachers get one day of training on special educational needs and disabilities in a pgcu one day right they might get a week where they have to do a project and

follow somebody around it's not enough because in every classroom you have 30 odd children and every single of them will have different needs and I would Hazard to Guess that probably 50% of them will have neurod Divergence sorry I'm on my Soap Box again but El yes we're together trying to solve this problem yeah yeah if you want to speak to me after we'll go outside and we'll be sat outside and we can talk about creating a coalition a coalition that can come together and make change in school and in employment but we want employers to get on board CU if employers don't start to open the doors and realize how they can be more neurod

Divergent friendly we can tell as many kids as possible you can do everything you want my darling right you can be anything you want to be but they walk into an employer and they have they they break down or burn out within a couple of weeks because they've not been supported and it doesn't make the right question the as well I a lot of young people come to me and say should we disclose our diversity to emplo that's a really difficult one it's a really difficult one and I can't answer it in the the minutes that we got left I have one question um how have you considered the element of Shame for those of us who grew up yes

nor diversity who did not get diagnosed until 100 years later and suddenly your entire life of struggle makes sense because yes I say this with love you were a weirdo and you were you were working through everything I thought I was just unique growing up I thought I was just a little bit odd and then I read not unique I won't answer it right here and now cuz I know we have one more question however three minutes F that's right then um however um we were we we run a support agency so as part of inclusive change we run a support agency where we work with autistic ADHD dyslexic adults in the workplace we use

access to work is the process of doing that and most of our clients have Trauma from late diagnosis and not being understood as children and teenagers and it is super super heartbreaking and and the reason I do this is that I don't want the Next Generation to have to go through exactly what you've gone through and I'm very very sorry but I it's fine um if you'd like a longer waiting list um yeah come see us no no come see us I'm gonna ask this CH quick yes my question is acknowleding that disability yeah what is the oneck I can do talk about it write it into your policies have policies for neurod Divergent employees there's a lot of

businesses don't um Lucy can talk about all of that I don't know what um policy but I'll give you one tip that you can do after this session is you go back to your team and you go hey I went to this talk about neurodiversity wow totally opened my mind let's see where the conversation goes that that's a really simple one but it won't fix everything for everyone because a lot of people still won't come forward okay great at the NHS how do you think

mental health burnout complaints grievances all happening in the workplace you do not need a diagnosis to get support through access to work so if anybody in this room is waiting for a diagnosis and are thinking how can I get some help because even when you get a diagnosis there ain't no magic wand all right there's they they go here you go do you want medication if you have ADHD here you go you're autistic bye then but you can use things like access to work and you don't need you don't need a diagnosis it will be based upon the way you present and the way in which you might find difficulties in the workplace we've got to stop sorry sorry and you

don't have to have a diagnosis for your work to legally be required to help you yeah that with reason adjust come to our access work webinar find Us online come to some of our webinars we do a lot offf thank you everyone if you want to talk about waiting this I to