Mentoring 101

hey guys thanks for coming to mentoring 101 i am hoping you guys are as passionate about mentorship as i am but i guess i should go ahead and kick off by introducing myself my name is elle marquez and i'm the community architect for operation safe escape we're a 501c3 looking to help victims of domestic violence be able to take back their digital lives we actually have a community channel in slack so if you're looking to maybe use your tech skills to make a big difference in someone's life go ahead and jump in and we can talk to you about what you can do unfortunately that doesn't pay the bills full time i guess i'm a community

advocate that means i get to travel the world and help people find their passion help people figure out how to begin their journeys and as a part of that i've become a technology evangelist i teach on everything aws containers security i mean give me three weeks and i'll teach a brand new course on whatever subject you want and i say that not to brag but i say that because when people ask me who i am i say hi i'm lo punk i'm a professional newb that might be a weird title but it really encompasses what i like to view myself as i always say i'm not a subject matter expert and that's not to say something about

myself that's negative it's because i don't want to be i never want to be an expert because that means that i myself view myself as having learned everything that i need to and if you've been in tech more than 10 minutes you know that it's constantly changing so i love to break things i love to break things and fix them and find new ways to break them i push it to the point where the developers and this has happened look at me and say l that shouldn't be possible and when that happens that's when the real fun starts but what i've learned is i don't have to reinvent the wheel there are people out there who've done

this probably longer than i've been alive so i asked for help and i know that's hard for some people admitting what they don't know so that's what i'm here to do today i'm not here to talk to you about how to be the perfect mentee or how to mentor someone i can't give you those skills because those are skills that you already have what i can do though is take what i've learned and teach you how to better wield those so that you can really have not a career but an adventure well how am i gonna do that i'm gonna tell you my story and i do this not so you guys can say oh

i'm so sorry that you went through that or wow you've accomplished so much i'm doing it so that you can take my story and use it as a template for your own make it a choose your own adventure use it as bullet points for what you want to do next use it as a way to view why it is that i view the world the way i do because one of the hardest parts you're going to have at being a mentor or a mentee is breaking out of your own head and understanding that everyone doesn't speak your english everyone doesn't understand the way that you teach or what your question is but what before we get to that let's get

started with the story and every good story has an origin mine begins a long long time ago in mexico but that kind of makes me feel old so a while ago in mexico i hear a lot that i had a disadvantaged background and i hate that no i didn't have tv or electricity or running water but i had goats and horses and land and over 100 cousins to hang out and play with that's why it was so difficult when i came to the us because i was put in special programs for migrants and i was treated like i was less than because i didn't speak english so that was what we focused on not learning how to use computers but

i got through it and i graduated and i did great and i had great dreams of working with the archdiocese so i studied christian theology and i went back off the grid because i wanted to be able to help people who grew up in the same background as i did but every story every story has to have that negative moment when you try to figure out if your main character is going to make it through it and mine happened in 2013 when i found myself divorced basically almost homeless and i had no career no background i'd never held a job and now i had three kids that i had to figure out how to support

so i made the leap i found out about a program called linux for ladies and this program was supposed to take women who had absolutely no technical background and in the span of six weeks six weeks teach them how to be linux administrators guys that was linux apache and my sequel in six weeks it felt like it was impossible but the way that the group got through it is we got through it as sisters we relied on each other and just in case you're wondering that's me um we didn't focus on our weaknesses we focused on our strengths when the teacher left we'd stay after class and say i have no idea what he said like what the hell is a table and a

column in a database that's how new we were and someone would stand up and say oh that's easy and they would draw it out and someone else would say i still don't get it and somebody would come up and explain it a different way i mean when it came to ssl i rocked that thing and i taught all of them maybe some other people helped but still i was really good at it and we accomplished great things most of us left the linux and the linux for ladies program red hat certified system administrators in six weeks we were proud but every good story well every good story has a villain and unfortunately my friends you guys are the villains the community

because it didn't take long for me to hear that despite what i'd managed to accomplish in six weeks i was nothing more than a publicity stunt i was able to get a job interview at rackspace who ford's fortune 500 that year had called one of the hardest companies to even land an interview with and i got the job but people only saw that publicity stunt they only saw that i was a woman or minority and that must have been why i accomplished what i did but my kids they'd gotten used to eating so what can you do you keep going and that's when i realized that you know what no matter what they said i had to be

able to accomplish my dreams and my goals so i did tickets and i worked and i tried my hardest to be able to give back to my team so imagine the feeling that i had when six months into my career one of the texts on a different shift reviewed my tickets and his feedback which went to myself and to my manager was simply four words i can tell you that those words what four almost five years later still hurt because i was really trying and i decided you know what they're right i'm an imposter i don't deserve this i'm the publicity stunt i need to step away and let someone who can do this take

this job so i went in the next day ready to resign the only thing that kept me from doing it right away was trying to figure out how to do it and still keep my dignity so i'm sitting there looking at the computer and if you know me you know that i don't stay quiet for long unless something's seriously wrong so one of my teammates they kind of roll over and they're looking at my screen and they're like ale would you break and guys if you've been checking your email i should stop saying guys i'm sorry y'all if you're checking your email right now or doing your nails or talking to your kids just focus for a moment because this

this is the most important part of this talk and that's because i had a moment there i was given a moment in which i had to choose do i just shrug this off and say ah i'm fine do i do what most of us say and oh i'm just thinking don't worry about it or do i show vulnerability and i decided i don't have anything left to lose so i looked at him and i told him what was happening what i realized now is what i did was i took that moment and i passed it on to him and there are people who will do this for you and you need to do what he did don't

shrug it off don't say oh that guy sucks don't worry about it you're doing fine oh you'll get better no he took that moment and he ran with it and he said you know what let me take those tickets i'm gonna review them i'll get back to you i promise it'll be more than four words and thus enters our hero that's aaron and yes i have permission to use that photo of him so later he comes back to me and says okay let's take a real look at this here's where you started and you're like oh customer something's wrong with your server what should i do and then from there you went customer your stuff's still broken

pick one of these and in the last few months you've gone customer your stuff was broken i fixed it close a ticket yes you are doing the same work over and over again but you're growing your confidence so the next step is to take something harder and i want you to hear that and say that there was never a formal agreement for mentorship he never said all right el i'm your mentor this is what we're going to do i have your career planned out for you and i never looked at aaron and said okay i want to grow will you mentor me it was just one person who saw a need and one person who asked for it

and what i saw is what we ended up doing was we changed the culture of our team because i'd look at aaron and say man i don't understand why the server is paging so much and it has enough memory and then he would start explaining and kevin behind him would say wait aaron have you thought about x and then corey behind me would say you guys are making this way too deep all right i'll look at this whiteboard and he would draw it out for me it no longer was asking stupid questions it was 100 growing our team once again no formal mentorship no court program just people helping each other grow but to me

this is the key foundation of what mentorship is because a mentor is simply someone who helps you fill your knowledge gaps to seek opportunities to help you grow and excel that's all they wanted to do and a mentor is someone who can let your guard down who share your insecurities that moment of vulnerability and to ask all those stupid questions that we all have sometimes and if you're one of the people that always says there's no such thing as a stupid question quit it because when you're the person asking the question trust me there's such a thing as a stupid question and if you keep saying that there isn't it makes me feel like i'm the only one that doesn't know

enough to be able to ask i once heard the saying that people come into your life for a reason a season and a lifetime this right here is what i want to be the way that you guys view mentorship because i truly believe that everything happens for a reason and what i'm asking from you today is for you to be that reason what my talking with corey and talking with aaron did is it planted all these different seeds that began to grow seeds that completely engulfed the concept of embosser syndrome so i couldn't even think about it because i was having too much fun and one of those seeds really began to flourish see aaron's a

great guy and he is a great teacher and i spoke to him last week we're still connected but corey corey could speak my english he taught the way that i learned i asked him a question about the osi model and he says don't worry about that let's talk about a post office and the way that letters go in the end he goes all right let's take that story and break it apart into each part of the osi model i will always remember that when i learned about paging he's sitting there handing me books talking about swapping feeling that book and remembering that memory will help me be able to grow and so we entered a season i became very

comfortable with asking him questions so when i was ready to move on and grow from a linux one admin i was like all right i got this i'm gonna become a level two corey here all the things that i need to do to be able to pass the test this one i know this one i know i don't even know what that says can you help me figure out an action plan to do my learning once again i never said hey corey will you be my mentor will you figure out everything that i need to do he never looked at me and said we got this this is what you need to do i just asked

questions i didn't ask him to teach me specific things i asked him to help me set the groundwork for what i needed to do so you've been listening to this for a while and some of you may going all right elle that was a great story right good for you you did the thing but what i'm here to learn today is to figure out how do i get a mentor i'm not you i don't have that vulnerability if you've been listening to this you know what the answer is and if you've tuned out i can tell you that you're not gonna like the answer because what you need to do is you need to quit looking for a mentor

it's fruitless you're not going to hand your career over to somebody else and have them build a successful one for you because they're not you they don't view the world the way you do they don't have the same experience as they do and even though they might understand the concept like i want to be an sre or i want to be a linux admin they don't understand why you wanted to do it therefore they can't craft what you need to do what you need is teachers you need to find those people that when you ask them a question they light up and they just start talking to you and they start teaching you and they

have no ulterior motive other than being excited about the subject but make sure you find someone who teaches the way that you learn i have some friends that if you hand them white pages man give them a couple hours and they will be able to break things down for you i can't do that you give me white pages i'll be ready in a year you give me videos maybe six months you sit someone down in front of me so i can ask questions and so we can learn together i'll be ready in six weeks with that though you need to look for your moment and you need to take it you need to find the courage

just to ask a simple question and not to feel that it has to be this big blown out thing where you have to come back to that just ask just say hey i don't understand why this mysql server is completely sharding itself and yes that's actually a thing and then go back to that person and say hey i really loved the way that you explained that can i ask you one more question don't worry about a formal mentorship but with that when you ask questions be willing to ask more nothing is more heartbreaking to me than when somebody asks me to help them i'm excited if you can't tell i love mentorship and i love learning so i'm

just going on and on and they're nodding along and by the end i realized i lost them and they haven't the slightest clue what i was talking about but they walk away i've had this happen and i'm like wait wait stop i understood every third word of that alphabet soup that you just spoke so let's break it down forget explain it to me like i'm five explain it to me like i'm too and i've had people call me out and then say okay you're just you know making yourself seem worse you're making yourself look bad i don't care i want to learn i don't care what i look like in that moment because way i'm going to prove myself is

by being able to go out and do what i learned and in that when you're asking for help know what you're asking i will i teach on containers and so i'll have people come up to me and say oh that was great i want to work in containers can you help me i don't know can i what do you want do you want to learn about networking do you want me to review your resume do you that isn't a question for me that is taking all of the emphasis and putting it on me being like all right i don't know what i'm doing you figure it out i have kids i have a new relationship i

want to learn myself i don't have the time to take on your your burden but within that be open to failing i found the best mentor when i was looking to get into openstack this guy spoke in a way that i mean cool things when my lights would just turn on and what should have taken me six months to learn in six hours i had it down so i said okay would you help me in this season because i want to grow in this area and he looked at me and said no i can't and i think he saw how it was a little heartbroken he goes my wife is due to give to have

lord my wife is due to have our baby pretty soon she would kill me if i took this on some people might view that as a failure i just asked hey do you know anyone else that can help me but how do you know what your question is i have a talk that says you know uh containers how to know what you know that you don't know how to know like that is such a complicated statement but when you don't know how to start that's how it start up that's how it feels so what you need is you need an action plan and there are several different ways that people go out and they talk about this

they're great being able to uh bullet journal it's a great thing i see a lot of really cool decorations in bullet journals that kind of keep you from focusing on your plan and i hear people talk about okrs hey i've done okrs but i do okrs after i've already set up what it is that i want to do so the way that i want to teach you is smart goals i don't know if people might be like leaving the chat right now and just watching another talk people have a really big hatred for smart goals and i think that's because when they're taught they're taught so stringent it's like okay let's draw this out and you're gonna fill out each

individual part and then somebody goes and grades it like okay that's not specific enough and that's not measurable how do they know they don't know you right what these things mean to you is completely individualized this is one of those tools that i can't teach you how to use i can teach you how to yield wield it but this has to be all you recently i have taken on a new mentee and i thought i was liberal this quote is a freaking wild child like trying to get her to focus is almost impossible she's a fairy she's all over the room but what i learned is the moment i start speaking the way she learns

whether she's running around the room she's listening so when i decided to teach her smart goals this didn't mean anything to her she doesn't care if something specific but she does care if it's significant to her she doesn't want to measure things like who has time for that but it's meaningful she'll work at it it's attainable okay and i could walk you down the rest of these but you need to find the words that speak to you why is it that you're looking to change jobs why is it that you're looking to get into security your why is yours and that's the first step to looking for a teacher is to know what you want them

to teach you so i want to show you the way that i was able to accomplish this and finally leave being an admin because i didn't like it all right i worked at openstack openstack is the cloud comp our booklet openstack i worked at rackspace and rackspace is the cloud company that's what they advertise themselves for so i should learn the cloud if i want to progress right that my friends is a dream like i want to learn the cloud cool i want to learn a marathon i want to do a lot of things but how many of them do you actually accomplish so i needed to make this a little bit more specific because who in the world even knows what

the cloud is it's a lot of jokes on that you should google it but anyways i worked at the openstack company so i said okay i'm gonna learn openstack that's pretty specific i know exactly what i'm gonna tackle right is that measurable i mean like how do you know when you know openstack i got a job i know this if you've ever been new to a job which i'm guessing some of you are you don't know anything the moment you get that job so maybe that's not measurable i found out though that as a part of the openstack technology rackspace had written a certification program around it all right i'm going to become an openstack

certified administrator either i am or i'm not that simple that's measurable is it attainable that one was hard because i wanted it and i wanted it to be attainable but i had three kids at home i was still having to do my day job i had three mentees who were in their season who i was trying to help become linux admins i had a study group that i was running at the same time i should have turned my phone off um at the same time i didn't have the time i it wasn't attainable at that moment so i took a break from my smart goals you don't have to rush through them it's like okay

let's take a moment i had somebody else take over my study group i helped each one of my mentees be able to find a new mentor i sat my kids down and said alright look mom wants to do new things do you know how you go up to the next grade in new grade and you've learned to read more and you learn new math that's what i want to do so i'm going to sit at this table with you guys while you're studying and i'm going to study too and i'm going to take a test just the way you guys do when they understood that it made this dream completely attainable to me all right so next is it realistic

well yeah yes this is when you start kind of doubting yourself like oh i could but i don't know if i'm good enough screw it rackspace had a training team so i got really proud and i walked up there and i said i want to become an openstack certified administrator will you guys help me and byron looked up and said who are you and okay so maybe i i went the wrong way about that but you know what i didn't know and i i didn't know about smart goals quite yet i didn't know how to develop them so i sat down with them and we started talking and i don't know if matt is actually in this talk right now because

he runs the k-8s group but he really took me under his wing he gave me vms to practice on he broke down the test for me it was a wonderful way for me to get started and once again i didn't ask for a mentor i just asked for questions when i had them i asked for answers when i had questions and so i said okay matt you told me that each one of these parts of the test is broken down into domains that's attainable it's that whole concept of how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time how do you pass the test by figuring out each section that you need to study not

focusing on the big picture just yet this was realistic to me i could tackle this the next one guys there i go again the next one y'all don't be like me i am insane and anyone who knows me that's listening to this right now will back it up i decided that i was going to do this in 60 days that was the time that i gave myself two months from what's openstack too i got this i'm certified it was hard i asked so many questions i would go up to the admins and say okay what are these logs saying i don't even know what i broke and i remember one of them asking me what customer is this for

it's like myself that's when they got interested they were excited that somebody wanted to know what they did so now i had a training team and i had a group of admins willing to answer anything so yeah i got certified in 60 days and one of the coolest parts is about that time matt decided to move on and look for new things the training team said we know the way you think we know the way that you break things down how would you like to work with us aside where uh that's just an amazing part of looking for teachers and not mentors is they become some of your biggest advocates this plan though doesn't always work and

as i told you guys sometimes you have to embrace failure when i started working at linux academy they said l write a program on write program write a course on containers no clue what containers were so i'm trying to tackle this and i'm trying to you know still go for my i guess my passions and still take care of my family what i hit was burnout i was done so i decided i'm gonna do something that i'm passionate about so i sat down with a piece of paper and i thought to myself l what do you want this is actually the piece of paper that i drew it on i love you guys i love security i love

the community i want to learn about security that's a great dream so we need to break it down and i asked a few people i asked cinders and ash i asked sciatic nerd i said how do i get started and they said you're great you help out a lot you don't know what we're talking about why don't you start with your security plus it'll give you a foundation to just understand the alphabetic suit all right that's measurable once again either i am or i'm not it's attainable i have all of you guys i literally have a community of people willing to help me is it realistic i just started a new job i had everything that i told you guys about i

was fighting burnout maybe not so i went to my boss and i said this is important to me i want to do this and i'm willing to you know what take a back seat whatever like i will do what you need me to but i'm not putting anything extra in i know that's almost impossible for most people but i had an amazing relationship with my manager and he said okay you know what find a way to make your passion and what you want to do something that we can benefit for so i started running study groups like i need to learn other people need to learn let's put these on the web and do it together

from there i started podcasting you know willing to admit my failures meant that other people wanted to teach so i brought on industry professionals and i asked questions and it was a wonderful experience for me and really helped me fight burnout and so i said okay i'm gonna pass that exam and did i tell you guys that i'm crazy because i decided that i had 30 days to do it in bad move and just to hold myself accountable i put it on twitter hey guys i'm taking my security plus and i'm passing it in 30 days all right some of you kind of helped me be crazy because there was so many people that said

we believe in you how can we help i was excited all right burnout is gone i'm gonna do this and then i got my workload for my new job i said all right elle you're already doing b-sides austin hey can you do infosec southwest and help okay these are security things we're still good i can do this by the way uh innotech reached out and asked if you can do a talk there still security i got this we also need you to do linux best northwest we're gonna need you to fly there do your thing fly back and when you get back we need you to go barcelona so you can do dockercon did i mention i really didn't know

containers and i was really burned out now i had to teach a workshop in it all right somehow manageable maybe 30 days a little bit of a panic attack oh yeah since you're done with that can you attend cubecon 2 i was done there was no way that i could accomplish this but i told you guys that i'm crazy right so i said screw it i'll push it back a little bit april 1st april 20th what's the difference between 20 days and 30 days i'll get this before i even have to start everything out maybe not this was my tweet saying hey i couldn't do it maybe i'll prolong you know my experience i ended up giving

up that burnout will bite you every single time but this is where i want to be different and i want you guys to be it even when you're working with mentors even when you've set that goal and you just know you're going to accomplish it failure is part of the ride so the way that i live my life whether it be personal and technical it's a great quote from samuel beckett that really spoke to me he said ever tried ever failed no matter try again fell again but felt better what have i told you guys i love to break things to the point where the developers start questioning their own code because you won't believe what you can

accomplish by attempting the impossible with the courage to repeatedly fail better no i did not get my sac plus in the time i'd allotted to myself but when the end the year i'd gotten my g sec and thanks to some mentors that i had along the way i went back and i don't know with like three days worth of studying because i'd been doing that work all along i passed my stack plus it took me way longer than i thought but finding those mentors to cheer me on finding those people to be advocates finding those teachers that were willing to take a moment really helped me accomplish my dream and as you can tell it was about one day

before my third voucher actually expired so those of you that are going you know what el i've accomplished so much i'm exactly where i want to be but what i want to know is how can i help others how can i be that mentor that they need me to be remember you're not there to do their job for them help them develop smart goals talk to them about what it is that they want to do but in the end your job is simple be open be honest be vulnerable be open for those moments look for them there are times that i don't need i don't know that i need a mentor or a teacher i'm just

mad at myself i can't understand why i can't learn something that's so simple for everyone i remember throwing the biggest hissy fit being in tears because i couldn't understand a freaking kernel parameter that everyone on my team did and i was like flip the table pissed off and corey looks at me he goes okay let's step back for a moment what you're saying is that you really didn't understand the whole concept of swap that you didn't understand how this was configured when you're ready come to me and i'll help you learn that he gave me my space he let me feel what it is that i needed to feel but he helped me have an out so that i

could go and tackle it all over again with that be honest i don't know how many times my career has been set back because i go and i ask somebody and they're too ashamed to admit that they don't know so they tell me this big convoluted story with lots of acronyms that make them sound so good so then i spend months trying to dissect that because obviously they know they wouldn't have set me on the wrong path and the more that i learn the more that i realize they're full of hot air they put my career back pretending to be teachers it's a horrible feeling but also be vulnerable when we take on a mentee when we start

teaching somebody we want them to know that we're going to set them straight we know what we're talking about you can have confidence in me no one wants the perfect teacher no one wants the perfect teammate they want somebody who's human somebody who has failed that can teach you from their failure someone who has modesty who can take the time and acknowledge that things are hard that vulnerability is what makes you an amazing teacher i said that i'm telling you a story and every story has to have an ending right i don't know mine yet i've been in tech five maybe six years i have so many goals that i want to accomplish because to me it's not a career it's an

adventure it's a story that's what i want you to start viewing it as enjoy what you're doing and if you don't find it use the teachers along the way to be able to pursue your dreams because the last part is a lifetime right and the best gift that any of my teachers had given me is the adventure that i had along the way now introduce you to one last person this is corey corey was there the very first day i had my first interview and i remember him asking me a question about session persistence and he'd be like i have no idea so i gave that big convoluted answer and he's like just stop just stop you don't know what it is

admit it tell me how you would troubleshoot it and move on and at the end i said all right will you tell me what session persistence is and why you asked me i said you know what go look it up figure it out here's my email get back to me i did that and hey i got the actual interview besides the phone interview i got the job i walk into my team the first day and there's corey remember when i talked about corey who sat behind me who started drawing out who learned to teach me the way that i learned same guy so now i'm ready for my new adventure i want to learn new things and

i decided hey programming is probably something that i need to understand so what three days ago i called corey up and i said hey corey this is what i want to learn can you help me kind of develop an action plan like i've got my smart goal but i don't know the first step i said you know what go and build something whatever spend an hour figure out a script i'll give you a zoom call we'll start dissecting it together there's no promise of a mentorship there's just somebody reviewing my code despite the fact that he's been my teacher for six years now i can't promise that this is gonna work for you i can't there's no way for

me to say if you try this you're not going to fail and honestly i hope that along the way you do fail because that's going to be your best way to be able to move on let me show you though what it's accomplished for me you know i started out with linux for ladies and i got my rhca and i got a job at works at rackspace then i had the horrible moment with that ticket review and i decided i wanted to prove myself so i got my rhce then i realized i failed at being a linux admin i'm not saying bad things about me i just hated the job so i got that open back training job and

i got my coa and it was one of the coolest experiences because they said hey why don't you go to sydney my first international trip and talk about what you were able to accomplish and how and that's really what started my job at speaking at conferences and while i was there i admitted my faults i admitted what i broke so i asked tons of questions and when it was time for reboot the mentorship program they called me up and they said hell elle why don't you take this and i said all right but i need mentors along the way one of those mentors was spots i asked her every openstack question you could ever get to

so when there was a position open at linux academy who do you think she contacted i had a great time that's when i became a technical evangelist and i started traveling more the company saw that people were responding to my message about asking questions and they said don't worry about doing training anthony's actual job description for me was change the community one student's life at a time i asked about the study groups we started podcasting all of these had failures along the way they weren't perfect it's all about breaking it down and keep trying i can't tell you what the rest of the future brings for me i don't know and you know what i'm sitting here working on an archbox

that's right here that i can't get to boot anymore but i'm actually excited about it i've never tried arch so here's hoping that it works alright guys thank you so much for learning this i promise i will eventually learn how to stop saying god is in a talk but if you have any more questions feel free to contact me i live on twitter and if you happen to follow me you'll see that i've been asking for job you know resume interviews for people i've been asking for advice for people and that's because people are showing me their vulnerability and though i can't help them i know somebody in the community is going to so thanks for helping me and uh i am

going to try to make this window small so i can look to see if there are any questions thank you so much that was awesome i really enjoyed that and inspired me and let me see we had one person asking can you share are you able to share corey's os my osi model analogy i will write it up because it's kind of long and i'll put it on my uh webpage i'll actually help i'll actually ask him to help me write it out because you know my remembering of it is probably different than his so i'll have it up by the end of the week lopunk.com sounds good and also if you have any questions you want to ask al

she'll be in the discord for this track and again thank you so much for your talk and i want to thank everyone else for participating in b-side san antonio 2020 we are split across go-to webinar for the main tracks go to meeting and discord are being used for our workshops events and resume review and we want to thank all of our sponsors open security digital defense incorporated cybersec jobs and clear jobs take a moment to go to the discord and thank them and also look in the community area there's a lot of things that are going on thank you for our sponsors our prize sponsors no scratch press and fishbarrel.com and again don't forget to look at the

activities and the events going on today we have about an hour left our next presentation will be broken arrow and that will be will bag it in about 20 minutes and again thank you al and thank you all of you for being here today

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