Women in Cybersecurity: The Digital Rosie

cyber Jitsu so we're super excited to have them here and so we have Hollis she is going to be our moderator she is the CEO of benevol Valkyrie did I say that right benevent Valkyrie yes heck yeah benevolent Valkyrie and then we have Susan maros she's the intern at CPS Energy on the identity of access management team and then Geneva you're on Ina not she is the US Marine the United States Marine veteran transitioning into cyber security she's working on her associates degree in cyber security and information assurance and she works with AFS and then we have [Applause] edth let's see she is the lead associate with both Alan specializing in defensive cyber for the

Department of Defense so this is our panel we have these for you ladies as a thank you thank you thank you so this is going to be our awesome panel for today and then they just wanted me to remind you 5 to 5:30 we're going to have the closing ceremonies as they call them so definitely stick around for that and then definitely check out the sponsors as well so enjoy take it away l W yeah thank you can you guys hear me yes it's working um thank you very much for that wonderful introduction um we are members of the women's Society of cyber Jitsu um we are here to empower and help women in the cyber security

field and so today we wanted to do sort of a little Rosie the Riveter theme and talk to our guests um Edith Susan and Geneva and you find out what their Journeys been like cuz we're all at a different kind of Journey age stage um Susan I'm going to hit you up for the first question all right no pressure no pressure at all right um what inspired you to get into a career of cyber security yeah so I was trying to explore um different careers cuz I've been in finance education and it just didn't feel right so as I was learning about different technology I um kind of found my passion in or my interest in cyber

security and one of the cool things as I was going through my cyber security boot camp was it remind me of my father who passed away in 2016 and you know I remember all the passwords you know crazy his passwords were ridiculous but now being in cyber security I understand why so it's been fun as a as the journey keeps going you know I get to see my father and like the things that he already was doing previously um and when I talk to different people right one of the things they mentioned is that they all kind of fell into cyber security but they're all doing it so uh it's it's been a really great ride and um I'm

getting to know more and I'm still a newbie so it be nice uh Geneva do you have anything you can add with that what inspired you um I've kind of always wanted to be in uh Tech uh when I left High School I been in Marine Corps I did radio communications I got out still didn't know how to get in Tech I didn't have anybody to like guide me over there uh so I did law enforcement and then once I decided I was done with law enforcement for my three kids um I found the vet tech program which is Veterans and Tech technology and I did a cyber security boot camp and then I felt like I just

didn't know foundational skills so I found Empower and through ower I was able to get some foundational experience and they led me to AFS and to a society of cybery for women um and then I was able to get into excentra Federal services and now I do uh user management so very good so my story is not dissimilar I actually graduated from a local high school Edison so sisd interstudy kid um and so um and then I went to uh Texas Stam University I actually graduated with the degree in economics so always interested in the numbers and stem um but really wasn't sure what was what was out there really and so I kind of fell

into economics I really I I liked it I feel like much like uh cyber economics is a huge driving factor to our society um and so that was what interested me in economics and what didn't interested me was the very um and and I say this cuz it's not good for me not cuz it's not good in general um it was a very um wrote job I went in at a certain time I knew exactly what I was going to do every single day and I went home at the same time every day like the only question every day was what we were going to have for lunch right that was like our biggest stress biggest pressure

um and so like it's definitely um something that is not a good fit for my personality um and so after I was there for maybe a year a year and a half um I was like I need something to push me in a different direction so I actually joined the Navy I did 8 years active duty in uh Navy Intel and that was kind of where I transitioned a lot of in the dod um it's sort of electronic warfare right so it's it's everything the whole spectrum and so we touched on Cyber we touched on different things and um when I was in the militaries when I learned about uh you know data and all the data that comes

from from the massive amount of data that comes from from cyber and I kind of transitioned into cyber that way that was really long I apologize no you guys sound like you've all had distinct different Journeys and you've all ended up at the same place which is wonderful [Music] um Edith uh how would you encourage more young women and girls to pursue careers in cyber security yeah so that's a that's a really good question um I think that for our young people sometimes we kind of lock them in um we we're like hey you're 17 or 18 the decision you make now will affect the next like 40 years of your life no pressure guys like just

no pressure um and I think helping uh young people understand how broad cyber can be like look at some of my colleagues right and so we've got people who focus on the finance of cyber we have people who focus on the law enforcement of cyber um the marketing and Graphics that serve cyber capabilities it you it doesn't have to be one thing like you don't you know when I when I talk to young people when I approach them I'm just I'm not like hey if you are not a hacker who can hack like NSA then just like don't even bother like it's just a wrong uh kind of perspective to bring it is does the

realm of cyber interest you bring the other things that interest you and your other strengths and bring them all to cyber because I can almost 100% guarantee you we need you in the field right it's it's not just one thing to do it's not like defensive cyber or offensive whatever it may be um it's it's everything and everybody has a place Jan would you like to expand on that you're next Susan so just be I would just like to say um I tell everybody um whether you're female or male or whatever even my young children I have all boys thankfully cuz I don't know what I would do with the girl um that just because you think you

can't doesn't mean you can't uh always try um like we all have different skills um different abilities and like she said there's a cyber security is a vast realm and like you can bring any skill to it and make it useful uh you just got to know your strengths and how to use them and keep moving forward yeah like having an open mind and I you know I met so many people that were from different Industries like you band directors are coming into cyber security but they're able to use the skills as a band director and translate into getting into cybercity field so just be open and um looking at different resources kind of figuring out where do

I fit or what skills specifically if um you know you're a puzzle solver maybe pen testing might be like a good feel for you to go into so just trying to figure out um and learning about all the different opportunities and the areas you can go into um Geneva I'm going to start with you on this one um in your experience what are some effective strategies for promoting diversity and inclusion in the cyber security industry I would say some effect ways are just approaching it with an open mind um I've always been in male dominated careers but I've never let that determine um the Marine Corps male dominated law enforcement male dominated even cyber we see is male dominated for

the most part but you know we're all pivoting and making our way into the role and make names for ourselves so never think that you can't uh always be open-minded open to communicate open to talk to everybody and understand that we are all different but at the same time we can all bring different ideas and perspectives to the team that all timately make us better and we can all achieve the same goal

together um come back to me please okay well I mean okay I got L absolutely um so I think um with regard to diversity both women um or you know just across the entire uh Society right I think what I've seen in my experience is this um this idea that there is a a path right like must graduate high school must graduate college must uh have like 10 years of experience by the time you graduate college with you know 10 certifications like there's like this this path and end I think for a lot of people they feel if they don't if they haven't met that ideal path or that um got to know somebody kind of thing that

there's just just just no no way so why even bother and I think for uh really all of anyone who's has any interest in cyber or bringing people into cyber understanding that there is there is no PA we've made it up in our minds there is really no path right you talked to somebody and everyone got here in a different way um there is a ideal or idealized path but there is no um hard and fast way to get here and I think letting someone know hey you've been you know doing something else and you're interested in this like take a and and I promise you guys I'm not I'm not affiliated but take a udemy course right

like take something for free and see if you like it and if that's at the end of that you know 12 hours that you've invested if you were like wow that was really fun take another course and before you know it you've got like a micro degree or or different things like that and and you've already started your path into cyber without knowing it right so for me that's what I tell anybody across you know all of society if this is interesting to you you don't have to have like $12,000 degree like as long as you have a public library with internet you got a path to get there so that's that's kind of how I view us bringing

down the barrier you just have to you know approach people who are interested that way instead of being like Oh do you have a degree like what is your doesn't matter half the people I've met don't have degrees so and before I hit you up Susan the women Society of cyber Jitsu table downstairs right across from registration we do have a QR code there that are free resources for um anyone trying to get into it so if you want to run down there and like scan the code um it it Diana Orosco she did a great job putting that together so she's a wonderful person all right Susan do you feel like answering yeah no I I was just thinking along the

lines like exposure right the more people are aware of cyber security what it entails the more interest you know that's how you bring diversity and then also like women's Society cyber Jitsu it's an organization dedicated to you know informing uh specifically you know young girls and women but just bringing out the exposure to cyber security that's how you're going to get more diverse people so finding out different resources or organization going to something like bides you know just putting yourself out there that's how you're going to learn and that's will help you determine where you want to go um so I think I want to follow that up with um what are some emerging Trends

uh that you guys have seen for opportunities for women in cyber security anyone buer or anyone I Ai and cloud computing in that area but I can't speak too much to it but that's what I why why do you say that well you know artificial intelligence there it's all it's growing and there's a lot happening right so it's going in a fast pace so that's where you know as a cyber security you know there's so much vulnerabilities and things that we have to get ahead of and be able to um be preventative than be um uh you know defensive I should say and even Cloud right it's been just grow going and Technology goes at such a fast pace that

sometimes it is hard to keep up with it but um I feel like that would be somewhere women or any any like under repesentative group can kind of get their Beginnings get that foundation and then make waves in those area specifically so that when uh we can eventually be somewhat caught up we can never be 100% caught up right excellent thank you Jan yeah and to add to that um there are a lot of resources uh like she said for women women in Co voting um then you have women in cyber Jitsu again uh you know providing these free resources to to help with the trend of getting you know women young adults into cyber security so I just think if people

are more aware of what resources are available and um the opportunities there will be a a bigger uh pool of women joining into cyber um so so from my perspective um the one of the primary ways that women are distinct in the workforce is um we're moms right like I mean we tend to be the primary uh what I call default parent um you know when when the baby cries dad's going to come in and it's probably going to want mom right like it just it just is what it is right um and so from that perspective the the trend I see that is helping bring women into the industry is remote work um like School drop off you know daycare

drop off doctor's appointments all of that stuff if I can um stop what I'm doing go real quick to the doctor come back and and pick back up I didn't lose 5 hours from my day right driving from work to the school to the doctor's office back the um Industries continued desire to embrace remote work I think will only continue to help that right it it allows for more of us as a society to have a work life balance which in my perspective directly impacts women in in one in all industry but specifically for this for our conversation women in cyber security and so with you know embracing that hey come to work when you need to be at work but

don't come to work to sit by yourself in a cubicle like what what you know and and like at the end of the day I can stop and then run and start getting dinner it's not an hour an hour and a half drive home things like that so from my perspective remote work um embracing more of a work life balance I think will continue to allow women um the the idea that there's space for them that they can move into the fields more technical fields and that they can have success excellent yeah think thank you covid-19 not not quite sure about that one [Music] um can I'm I'm going to hit everybody with this one but um can you like

describe like a funny story or memory or something um on your career uh Journey that may have been either like a turning point or it it it let you know that that's where you wanted to go funny funny bottom line funny stories here if you have them if you have them I don't know about funny um but I did work as an investigator and every time people had computer issues or anything like that they'd be like Geneva help us and I'm like uh what makes you think I'm that smart and they're like you always figure stuff out I was like yeah because I don't like to be stuck cuz what we do is we carry our

books our um our computers with us and if anything went down you know was up to you to figure out hey why is my computer malfunctioning not working cuz I would have to take it everywhere all around Bear County so I'd be like oh okay I think this is it and I just messed with the computer until I got it to work so I was kind of known as like the little tech nerd for the investigators and I'm like that's not cool guys it's not cool at all but I I liked helping and I still get to help and now I'm doing it and I love what I do so that's that's my little funny somewhat

joke um so mine was um I was in sort of analytic analytics kind of analytic Discovery kind of field right and I um whether perceived or real I felt myself stuck I was like we've got a lot of Technology coming we've got AI who's going to do a lot of this work for us we're going to like automatic processing of data and I and I feel like I'm a little stuck right so I actually um was looking into uh corsera at the time at home and I was cuz I was like I can't I can't do a degree right now like I just can't and so I was looking into corsera different courses things like that um and I that's

where I fell into data science they had like these um program that's provided by Johns Hopkins they have like python courses little things like that for you to explore python for everyone if you haven't taking it it's amazing um and so I was sitting there um at home going through this like python course for data science and my boyfriend at the time walked in and he like what are you doing and I was like I'm taking this uh course cuz I I I think I'm interested in data science so I want to you know pivot that way and he said you can't do that guys like there a flip and I was like yeah I was like I'm on it oh man

I'm not going to go to sleep until this is done it's going to be like 4:00 in the morning I'm still going to be hammering this thing out I promise like it's not going to and so um he didn't like and it was funny cuz we talked about it afterwards he didn't mean it that way he was just like at the time in our field data science was just like such a daunting thing like if you didn't actually go to John's Hopkins and have a degree in data science like good luck right it was just like it was a the barrier to entering that field was so high at the time that when I was like

Hey I'm going to take this course at home from this like online program that I pay like $35 for he's like you can't do that so it wasn't it wasn't necessarily on me but in my mind it just kind of I was like well now I have to show him how he's wrong I take he's not your boyfriend anymore oh no he still is he still is no yeah right yeah he's a yeah so afterwards he was like wow that was really you know impressive and I you know we talked about it but he was and I totally understood him but for even if it was subconscious like that clicked and I was like well I have to make this

a life goal now so that's my funny story to for me guess I've always kind of been interested in computers like curiosity um is one of the things that it's the strong skill for me and I you know I've dabbled in different types of coding but coding gets me really frustrated because it's just that one comma that could potentially like ruin the whole code and I just want to throw my computer out so I'm like you know what maybe this isn't this is not for me so I you know I've done a little bit of data analys uh course I've done project management and when I got into cyber security with especially in the ID access management I

just felt like home at home and like I said earlier it kind of reminded me a lot of my dad so it's kind of like a connection to him so it's like he's with me here a funny story not necessarily a career but um being a cyber security person right like you know the strong passwords and everything but people around you they don't understand so my husband like for the longest time his passwords were really simple and the same and I'm like dude come on like your wife is in cyber security you can't just have like you know simple passwords so good news guys he's finally using long passwords complicated passwords y it can be done yes start with your

family first um what advice would you guys give to women starting out in the cyber security field I say a network and you probably hear this a lot but networking is how I got my current internship it's just talking to people that are in maybe potential field that you interested in OB LinkedIn is a great uh Source finding people in different um roles or companies that you want to work for schedule an informal interview with them and just ask them like you know what do you do like what do you like about it you know if I want to be in that role what what should I do that will kind of help you guide you as you figure out

where you want to be but they're also a great source to kind of help help you get that foot in the um in the door so networking is going to be one of your best bets and then utilize all the resources you know there are a lot of free resources and I'll be honest I'm guilty of not using all of them but that's something I'm working on but yeah there's so many free resources go Google has I mean corsera they have certifications um udmi uh there's uh there's a few others that you can you know to practice what you learn um so just use your resources and network and that will kind of help you guide your path

what she said also um seek mentorship in the industry uh look for uh women in leadership roles women in cyber um just kind of pick their brain see what they can offer you uh and like she said you still got to figure out what you want to do if you don't know um so it doesn't hurt to to Shadow somebody to find somebody to Mentor you um and again look for your resources um there's always opportunity you just got to find it and uh women are good at investigating and finding stuff so do your due diligence and get out there and not only just women right there cuz sometimes you're not going to find that so there are men

that do want to help out and is waiting for somebody to ask for um to Mentor them so you know seek out anybody that you feel like could you know help you reach that goal I promise I love you guys okay U no I 100% agree um um networking is important you know what I tell um anyone who comes into my team and I and I really feel that this is the case for everyone is that when they come into a new role they should identify three people right that first one is your person who is like your first line manager right the person you report to every day who kind of helps guide you

through your day-to-day job that second person is is your Mentor right you identify that person whether male female in your job outside of your job whoever it is that you want to kind of emulate as you go through your career and the third person is not necessarily someone that you find like you don't go find them and say do you do you want to be this person for me it's sort of a unspoken and then later spoken contract in in my view and that's your Advocate right so they are almost never the same three people um and so you find someone who recognizes the capability the capacity the interests in you and they're going to throw your name out

when opportunities come up the reason I call it a contract is because if they throw your name out and you constantly say no they're going to find someone else right so you have to kind of be open to recognizing that person and notice that that person is not putting your name forward because they hate you I want to give you more work like that's that's not what they're trying to do right that's military yeah that's military yeah yeah Vol told yeah they are they are they they notice that you know you're you're trying really hard and they have um sort of an unspoken trust or faith in you that if they put your name forward

you're going to do a good job right you're going to take it on you're going to succeed and so you know kind of recognize that person and then when you when you establish that sort of relationship then you do need to have that conversation right because you can't take on like 20 things right and never sleep and so kind of have that conversation like this is kind of where I want to go and you and they and they become your Advocates so recognizing that person early um when you come into a space is important um the other thing for for women and y'all please don't hate me don't come at me but um I in in my career and through

my life I felt that one of the things that we need to do better at and we need to do better at teaching our young women is confidence confidence in in general but confidence in very um technical or male-dominated Industries like I feel like for some reason we we feel like we're walking around with impostor syndrome right like we're just like we like we're here but tomorrow someone's going to find out I shouldn't be here I'm going to get fired right like why right we're we're we were given an opportunity and we're here because we have capabilities and qualities and we can succeed and do well and we need to carry that confidence with us into into

every situation right when we're talking to our mentees when we're talking to young women um you know in high school who are trying to figure out what they want to do when we're when we walk into a boardroom and talking to our superiors like you you belong there like you didn't just accidentally happen in there or you know someone made a mistake you belong there and you we have to remember to carry that with us when we have those discussions that was really good um so I think the next question in in your current roles are you facing other than the confidence um are you guys do you guys have you faced any um like

challenges or or opportunities and and how did you respond to them uhoh uh I'd say I'm An Open Door um anything that I feel like will present an opportunity opportunity to me whether I know I can do it or not or if I know I have to go you know figure out how to do it um I like to jump on that chance at Opportunity um like she said earlier I always use it as a foot in the door a foot going forward a foot moving to where I want to get um so I will be up front and tell the person like um I don't know if I know exactly how to do this but I will figure it out and I will

do it like the best that I can and um so far that's worked really well for me and it continues to work really well for me so um that's what I kind of do um especially being new to the company that I work with um I don't have actual uh hands-on experience I have training experience but everything that's led me to this point has done me well and um I even on my team um I have a senior above me who's kind of like took me under his wing and let me shadow him and work with him because he loves that I'm always asking questions that I want to learn that I want to do it and that I'm like

willing to fail to succeed so yeah I would say for me um just coming into my new job as an intern kind of new to the whole cyber security world and then my manager and my team trusting me to actually train incoming contractors and interns cuz I I have the Imposter syndrome I'm you know I always have even just being here I'll be honest I was dealing with that all fighting with that but I had a great woman just kind of encouraging me to be here but um yeah just the fact that they trust me now that they believe that I'm capable and I know what I'm doing to um just let the rain cuz I didn't have you it wasn't

something that was set in place it was just kind of like this person's going to start Monday train them you know and so I had to kind of come up with like ways to figure out you know where should I start how should I do it and it's been a fun fun Journey for me I I like I realize that I like training and talking so um and I like making jokes to um so so for me and and I'm sure that you know anyone who's been in their career for for a little while has experienced this so I feel like throughout our lives we have chapters in our career like a points when we pivot we take on a new

role or a a new job or we move or have a significant life event or you know things like that um and so I was in the uh middle of a of a big one um I moved from Central Maryland DC area where everything is like extremely chaotic no one ever sleeps um even when you go to like happy hour you're still in business mode you're still like that was the first time in my life when I moved over there where like as soon as I met a person was like oh hey nice to meet you the questions that came were like I was in a job interview or like like I felt like I just had to print out

my resume and be like here you go can I go eat some toas real quick before we do this like I'm kind of hungry um it it was it's just a very very different environment um and I moved to San Antonio I stayed with my company but I was taking on a very different role working with very different uh um co-workers just different environment different client space just everything was different um and and I the first maybe 3 months I was like oh crap what did I do like maybe this was a mistake um and so I saw that as like you know a very difficult situation um but I kind of turned it around because what

I realized was that that um and I promise you guys I'm not talking bad about anybody at my firm um was that often times within certain communities or within certain spaces people get very uh comfortable right they um they know how everything goes they know they it's just very routine very uh comfortable for them and so when I came I turned that very uncomfortable situation for me into an opportunity to be like look guys there's other ways of doing this like let's let's try this let's see if it works if it doesn't work I promise I'll go sit down and won't bother you guys anymore and I'll figure something else out but if it works then

it works like what we have to lose right and so I definitely turned what what could have been like me essentially shutting down and taking a step back in my career to me taking it as an opportunity to move forward expand my my network expand U my visibility expand my um opportunities and what I was leading um and just a a big step forward in my career instead of a step back excellent um it looks like we're kind of getting close so I'm going to throw out one last one last question [Music] um what would you what advice would you give to someone trying to get into the cyber security Arena that you know like

how do you network or you know what kind of nugget can you give to

share like we mentioned earlier like you know in LinkedIn finding those um you know just looking up people and just a really brief message right like hey I saw um you work at this place you're doing this uh you know I would be interested to get to know more you know do you have some 15 minutes to chat and that could kind of lead the conv ation in different ways uh another way I would say is um finding out just different networking events so like the Chamber of San Antonio would have events where you might it's not necessarily geared towards cyber security but it is an event and you know there are people coming from different backgrounds and

that's how honestly how I got to the women Society of sa jits is I went to a just a local uh business networking event I met somebody there and she knew some uh people in it and cyber security she knew that I was interested and I was trying to uh make my way there and so she told me about an event that was hosted um at the tech port and I went to that which is where I met somebody else who I was like hey you know I'm in this new field I'm trying to you know get to know people and so I connected with her on LinkedIn and then she shared with me the kickoff event for women's Society of

cyber Jitsu and I went and I was just I felt really energized and that's why I joined that group so it it's really like take every opportunity that is um given or seek out the opportunities and you you never know where it leads you so um just take a step forward um does not look good I know so despite the fact that I'm sitting up here and I'm having you know this conversation with all of you in this room um so this is my advice for the introverts I'm an introvert I will probably go home and need a nap after this um and I I find uh that a lot of people who are looking who are in cyber

security or looking to transition into cyber security are usually introverts um so two pieces of advice um one um schedule the nap you're like you're going to you're going to need it just schedule it ahead of time right just um and two practice um you know we we often look at people we're like man I I wish I could I could be like that person this is like 15 years of me practicing how to to get out of my comfort zone to be to do those presentations to the board to you know senior leadership to uh you know feel like I'm going to throw up before I go on this St like all like I it's all

practice it it it's not one of those things for a lot of us that we um are just naturally good on and we're on and we're good and like it it doesn't have to be natural much like any other skill that you have in your toolbox you have to sharpen it and hone it and don't be afraid to like go to a conference and walk up to a random person and be like hi my name is blah blah blah like one of two things are going to happen you're going to make a new friend or you're going to find out that person was rude and you don't want to talk to them anyway like we got nothing to lose right

very good advice so that's my on that note and uh talking to somebody if you don't know how or don't feel comfortable going up to somebody a compliment or a joke usually works um that usually works for me cuz uh I usually don't know how to approach people without feeling awkward cuz I'm an introvert myself believe it or not it's a lot of practice and I actually I actually teach at the college too so go figure but yeah that'd be my advice too um just Network talk to people uh you never know what people will tell you what information they share or they could be that next person who advocates for you because they know the skills and

the abilities that you have excellent um any questions for any of our panel yes ma'am um this is a great panel and thank you for talking about imposter syndrome because I think throughout the cyber security Arena male woman minor whatever your bucket is because it's an Ever Changing field everybody has impostor syndrome you shouldn't feel bad about it y um the other the other thing I just want to mention and I ask if you any of you are doing this is um if you're in a corporate set and and a large corporation especially you're on a team whomever that manager is they have a budget that renews at some point trying to out when that budget renews a month

before the budget renews go do you have any yearend money left and create yourself a project so that you can advance in your career field and that would be the one thing that I would say it's really important to to to drive yourself to always learn things and try things you don't understand no 100% I 100% agree um and for to to your point for many of you guys who are who may not be in that spot yet but are looking to to be there for at least for Booze Allen we have um money that is set aside yearly for what we call Strategic investment or projects right so if you have like a really cool

idea and you just don't have time to work on that the idea is that that pot of money is set aside for time right cuz I mean if you don't know it time is money right time time is money so if if you were you know working on another project you just can't find the time to do this at home whatever it is they will provide you those hours 100 hours 160 hours to explore uh this project this idea and it's very much like Shark Tank you you put together sort of this idea you pitch it and they're like yeah that sounds like a good idea we have a need for that we will fund you your project

at the end of it you present it and if if you've done a good job they will give you more money and and really that Sky a limit with something like that right you just kind of keep going um point being that a lot of Corp people a lot of corporate entities have that type of program so if you are the tinker type if you have these really great ideas that you know Innovative and entrepreneurial and inventive like don't feel like once you're in the corporate world like that's it you're just like a 9 to-5 drone like there's lots of there's lots of opportunities even within large corporations excellent well I want to thank um Edith and Susan and Geneva for

being up here and participating in the panel um I'm going to do my random plug for uh what oh oh yes um St Mary's or actually cyber Jitsu yeah cyber Jitsu is actually sponsoring a cyber Patriot Camp the what is 22nd 26 July 22nd through 26th if you're interested um basically see anybody with one of these yeah or those two basically those two um and they can help you um and sort of in that networking frame as well um if you're interested in you know talking with someone from cyber Jitsu again look at this um and you know this is a way to build your network um because you're meeting people you might not know and as

you get to know them so there's a lot of opportunity out there um and we're very grateful that you all sat and listened and if you have any questions or anything you can just come right now hand hand clap for the panel

hear a joke okay some of you might have