BSides Perth 2021 update - Pre conference live stream

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cool and we're live so welcome everyone to the first b-sides pre-conference live stream hope you're having a good week so far and we're glad that you can be joining us today from wherever you are around australia uh firstly as you can see we have a discord chat and a youtube chat um both of you can join in and join in the conversation if you've got any questions for anyone please chuck them in there and we can have a chat and we'll we'll bring it up so my name's sneaky i'm joined by uh naidoxy and dolls so we're the founders of b-sides perth and b-sides perth has really been running since 2017 and it's been gaining

popularity every year this is our first birth fourth besides perth um and we're pretty excited to have it so anyone that's been involved with b-sides and any conference in general we really rely on sponsorship it's huge and it's really important to have that sponsorship to be able to run a conference we've got a few sponsors this year so bear with me i want to list them all out and and say thank you you know they provide cash they provide prizes they provide events like ctf everything that we're so we're actually able to run a good conference for everyone uh so firstly platinum sponsor kinetic rt protect plus um kinetic it's great we've been a sponsor since we started in

2017 uh we've got kev o'sullivan um head of security for kinetic int who's on the call and he'll be speaking a little bit later on gold sponsors this year we've got cyber cx we've got telstra purple and pwc i've also got a range of silver and bronze sponsors so silver we've got canva crowdstrike um aussie wa innovation hub for bronze sponsors we've got cybersec people exabeam es2 rapid7 trustwave special shout out there to ricky again ricky's been another one that from cybersec people who has been a ongoing sponsor with b-sides perth uh ctf sponsor we've got fifth domain uh we've got um parks and harry on the call from fifth domain who'll be talking a

little bit about the ctf this year also some prizes we've got pen tester lab extra beans provided some prizes and we've also got a range of other prizes for a range of things that are going to be happening at the conference this year so since 2017 b-sides has been running as i said before we've been uh hosted kindly by university of western australia and netherlands um each year we've grown in numbers the first year i think dolls were talking about this before so the first year we had around 150 people and you said it was in the mathematics area was that right yeah that's right the mathematics building people that was the top end it was

cancellations but yeah that was as many as we got in 2017 and and each year it's got bigger and bigger and this year's where um we're set to be uh a lot bigger obviously um i can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head but you know we're getting more and more attendees every year the exciting thing and i guess the unique thing about this year is obviously um we didn't have b besides 2020 because of cobin because of the pandemic but this year um this is the first time we've done this where we're going to have uh b-sides live event so we're going to be able to go to the uwa and

attend plus we're going to have a live stream um going on for those people in lockdown in other states that have bought tickets that can't get along so eastern staters i'm sorry i feel for you hopefully you can still enjoy the conference um i want to talk this i want to talk a little bit about uh what's involved with running the conference um and myself um dolls and my dog skill will talk a little bit about that so guys takes a lot of effort to run a conference as we know and um ironically each year it takes more and more effort you know we've we've all got our daytime jobs that we run um so all this b-sides um organization

run outside of work um you know dole's knights whoever wants to start you know what have you found it this year running the conference obviously during during the pandemic during work but also trying to um organize and set this conference up definitely bigger than any other year before uh yeah that seems to be the trend we're just getting bigger there's always more work to do uh more sponsors to work with which has been great for us um and yeah like you said we've got lots coming up for it we've got free coffee in the morning uh pizzas for lunch we might even be looking into some donuts as you might have clued in from twitter the other day

yeah and um nige what about from yourself i mean i know it's been a big year we've had a lot of organization and even though we're not in lockdown here a lot of our suppliers are based in these states yeah um [Music] i think we've kind of been a bit of a victim of our own success uh first year like dole says we started off small we had a really good uptake we got great sponsorship loads of those names that you've mentioned kinetic rt cybersec people and so forth and we've had that kind of repeat coming through second year we ran 2018 we kind of doubled in size again and then 2019's conference we were kind of hitting that

500 number i think we've been victims of our own success with that every year has been really really good so far and we put a huge amount of pressure on ourselves to try and make it something where everyone gets a huge amount of value from it every other year so um kind of feels a little bit this year with the the stresses of lockdowns and supply shortages and everything else that um kind of reach a bit of a pinnacle of pressure and stress and i think we've kind of slugged away through that uh we've gone from being that kind of in real life conference to not just that but virtually streaming all of the talks and everything as well

so try and reach that audience and try and give back to every one of our supporters who've kind of stuck with us over the years to uh to keep making it a pretty awesome conference that it's that it has been yeah exactly right and um you know it it is a lot of effort but it's it's it's what we like doing and for those that don't or not really sure about how b-sides works you know b-sides is a um what you call a chain or you know a conglomerate of b-sides conferences all around the world um we were second b-sides in perth we work closely with b-sides canberra who are obviously the biggest b-sides in australia um they

helped us out a lot to get up and going back in 2017. um you know it does take a lot of effort and there's a um but but the the thing we like about b-sides and the thing the the most important thing to us which is why we run it is we want to make a conference that's affordable that everyone get along to so we want students you know students are a keen focus for us people getting into cyber security industry people interested you know not everyone that's interested in the cyber security industry want to pay thousands of dollars for a conference ticket to come along and um listen to talks and speak to sponsors

we want people to um have an accessible conference to join and come get some really good value and as you've discussed already you know it's a 50 ticket um you get a bit of swag so this year i can talk a little bit about it um you know you get it you get some get a bag get a really cool t-shirt this year um [Music] we might talk about the t-shirt a little bit later on the call um stickers you know all other some other cool stuff we'll get along the way as well badges um we've got the ctf we're running as well again thanks to fifth domain who we'll talk to shortly uh and also lock sport

table which we do every year that's always pretty popular which is pretty cool nige i'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit badges how much information or would you like to give people or kick from people this year um badges yeah yeah the the bane of our lives my cheers um sneaking dolls will agree with me we are not hardware experts by any stretch first couple of years we uh we smashed some stuff together ourselves made it work it did some stuff people made it do some more stuff and it was pretty cool and we always get some quite good engagement with that um 2019 we had some supplier challenges lots of broken promises along that

supply chain and although the fact that the badges did arrive on the day customs wouldn't let us get hold of those so that was a bit of a write-off if you're around this year my garage is full of 2019 badges hit me up and i'll i'll you know hook you up with some kit uh this year's has been a bit different supply chain issues have been huge uh you'll have reading the news everywhere component shortages processor shortages everything's been really really challenging uh so there was no chance that you were going to get things like esp chips p code chips screens and everything was um always going to be quite a problem and we've done the old murray dance of

trying to design something we've had some awesome support from a uh a few individuals so shane i don't know if he's listening in has been really cool with some uh designs and stuff so shane's part of the protagonist team at uh kinetic and and really tried to slim things down into something that provides a level of functionality and something that people can play with uh but it isn't quite as um as fancy and battery powered as in previous years so if all things being well and just a second i've had a text from dhl to say that something is in the air and heading over here so fingers crossed touch wood everything else we'll have a heap of badges um

we went through about 56 different options for backup designs and dumb designs and everything else but uh all things being well all i will talk about is um there's some stuff on there that should hopefully work off rfid nfc type principles um that should give people some things to play around with there'll be a talk given over the weekend of the conference by shane who'll tell you about some of the cool stuff that he's done with this technology what you can make it do and just how how offensive you can make it um i always like getting up early to those emails from china saying hey that stuff that you wanted is totally out of stock

you've got to order some and it'll take weeks to get here oh by the way i only know that you want a couple of hundred but you've got to order a minimum of four thousand so if you know anybody wants a bag full of processors then uh we've got some sitting in a warehouse over in china at the moment and i'm sure that we'll just keep using those for whatever purpose it suits us at a point in time so touchwood fingers crossed there'll be something it will have our quacker on there and a few of the bits and pieces as well probably hand over to dolls at that point to talk a bit more about

this year's conference animal yeah so uh before i do i'll just remind everyone we will probably have a bit of time to do some q a so please drop your questions into the chat on youtube if you scroll up a little bit you'll see a message from us saying we also have a discord which is new we're new to discord please go easy on us i don't know how it works yet but please drop your questions in the live chat channel on discord just we'll just get a moment to answer them while you've met while you've done that i just want to answer a couple of questions that have come in i guess before just before we miss them um

i've seen one from cole uh the eastern state is getting swag the answer is yes so those people that have bought tickets um the 50 b-sides tickets that were planning on attending the conference you would definitely get your swag we just need an address from you there should have been an email that went out a couple of weeks ago asking for your address if you can't make it put your address in there if you don't want to put on there ping us email us whatever give us your dress we'll send you the swag after the conference yeah and i said there's lots of questions uh and i did see a message pop up from a man of

mine hanno and i don't want this to be a trending hashtag he said bad gate um no pressure for this year that's all right sorry dolls you go oh that's nice um so yes the quacker the b-sides perth animal this year you weren't really convinced by any of the names that came out suggested on twitter so uh we went with quarantina the quaker which we were pretty happy with so um and quarantina the quokka she features on a lot of our swag that you can get in the swag shop so that includes caps you can buy t-shirts you can buy kids t-shirts that's the only place you'll get a kid's t-shirt and the t-shirt design in the swag shop

is different to the one that you'll get in your swag bag on the day it's a completely different design so uh if it sounds very exciting if you want this logo on the hoodie or the or the shirts uh order from the swag shop otherwise you'll get a different t-shirt yeah we've got a pretty cool design which we won't give too much away on that but we've got a cool design coming out the t-shirts this year which is pretty awesome great so thanks that's cool everyone's probably sick of us listening to us talk rubbish so uh the cool thing is i've got uh i've got parks and harry from fifth domain on the line so

fifth domain as i said earlier on fifth domain sponsoring our ctf so it's probably a good opportunity now to have a chat with them and talk a little bit about what the what the um ctf is involved this year at um besides perth whereas we'll be right back with them [Music]

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oh hang on um and we're live so i have dropped you nigel and we've got parts and harry here how are you gentlemen excellent fantastic thank you how's it going over the other side of the country excellent excellent when with australia's best state aren't we thanks for joining us over here definitely the least locked down state well definitely the least locked down state currently currently the league's locked down state so we won't get too cocky there uh guys that's right uh thanks for joining today really appreciate the support that you've shown with b-sides this year as i said fifth domain are a the ctf sponsor for b-sides um harry parks whoever wants to start off um tell us a

little bit about the ctf this year sure i will kick into it um unsurprisingly fifth main is sponsoring a ctf this year um that's pretty exciting because it means that you guys will have a virtual ctf to play with um for the duration of the conference so it'll be open to many many people um virtual ticket holders get a little bit of an extra bonus um and it'll run from i believe 10 a.m on saturday all the way through till 3 p.m on the sunday so for the duration with a little bit of time uh left to announce winners which is also super exciting because any of the virtual ticket holders that play along will be able to win some cool swag

and prizes yeah that's awesome and um which is pretty exciting so i assume there's going to be um we'll have to host some sort of leaderboard or something similar can you talk about any give us a sneak peek about any of the particular challenges i will throw all the way over to harry for that who is our data scientist and magician cool so the competition is a japanese style um format where the teams will have to complete a variety of different challenges in order to gain some points um we would be releasing the challenges in buckets um where by we'll be releasing some amount of challenges at the start and then um adding to the bucket um

for every challenge successful challenge um you earn some kind of points and the points will be different for different category of challenges and difficult different difficulty of challenges um that's what what sort of skill levels required so we've got obviously a range of people coming to besides perth we've got students we've got experienced security people you know what what sort of level of knowledge would you need to know to join the ctf so yeah it goes all the way from beginner level to hard there will be a range of challenges for different categories and different difficulty levels um there are eight categories in total um ranging from ocean open source intelligence to forensics to um

steganography scripting reverse engineering so yeah all sorts of challenges all sorts of different difficulty levels um yeah something for everyone that's pretty exciting and i'm looking forward to it because um i know you guys have put a lot of effort into this so it's uh it's going to be pretty exciting for everyone joining uh so what's what's required what do people need to bring if they want to be part of the ctf in terms of you know um what specs they need laptop tools you know um yeah what what would they need at a minimum at the very minimum they're going to need to actually register for the ctf um that link will go out initially to all

the ticket holders i believe on the 15th um and so there'll be a little bit of pre-registration stuff um there is a cap to the number of people that can actually play as well so getting in early is very good um and links will be available on the day as well so if there's spare capacity it will be opened to the broader public and everyone can jump in in terms of some technical stuff it's probably best to run a kali vm or another vm of the linux distro of your choosing you may want a cheeky little windows vm floating around as well so you can do some windows based stuff um in terms of specs i don't think

there's going to be anything too horrendous in there so as long as you can run those vms at minimum requirements you should be fine um yeah that's that's super exciting so we're um we're really looking forward to getting that up and going and and guys thanks a lot for um again support sponsoring b-sides perth and providing your ctf um i know we'll get a list of prizes out for um different different parts of the ctf as well you know um obviously the overall winner but obviously we're going to do different ones throughout the ctf as well so guys again thank you very much for joining today's call again appreciate the sponsorship that um fifth domain are providing besides perth

and um we'll see on the day awesome thank you thanks harry thanks parks see ya

thanks to fifth domain guys it's really cool that we're able to have them on board um dolls we've um lost nigel for a little bit but that's okay um just want to talk a little bit more about some stuff that we've spoken about before all right so he's back okay there he is hello nige um swag shot we spoke about the swag shop um what's the best way for people to get on the swag shop and buy some stuff online uh so right at the top of our website besides besidesperth.com.edu there is a button for the shop i can't show it right now but button for the shop that will take you to an external website at spreadshirt

where you can order all of the swag cool that's awesome now we've got some pretty exciting news and i hopefully i know we might have alluded to a little bit on the call already but um virtual conference so we've still so besides perth we're running and we're in person and and for all those ticket holders that get the swag and all the benefits of joining besides perth that's still going on but we've had a lot of requests about people that still want to listen to some talks you know as you know we've got a lot of our um brothers and sisters in the eastern states and even all around the world locked down so we want to make

sure that we can still provide some quality b-sides perth content to them so we've decided to release some virtual only tickets and what does it mean by virtual only so virtual only is going to be um you can you can join in on our live stream which we're going to be live streaming a lot of our talks to not all talks because there's a couple that we can't um but most of the talks will be um pushed out live stream um to to any virtual ticket holders now how do you get a virtual ticket so we're going to release probably tonight the virtual tickets now the virtual tickets are free so they're free however there is a paid

option where we've got a area where you can put you can choose how much you want to donate to 0xcc um nige since you're back on the call um do you want to just talk a little bit what talk a little bit about why we've chosen xerox cc to be our um prime key uh recipient of any any proceeds that we get from the virtual tickets um yeah so uh this is something that lana set up and she's had pretty good support uh from other conferences i know uh there's some stuff this year with besides canberra as well a lot of personal donations from people who've gone into that conference donations and bits as well

um it's all really really pretty good stuff so people that are kind of uh not represented well or disadvantaged in some way whether that be financially or just locations um there are opportunities to help get people together and and take some benefits from making a contribution towards this to help people get a foot in the door a foot on the ladder whatever you want to call it to get into the industry and come and meet and greet and network and see those kind of talks so it felt like something that um we would have some capacity to be able to achieve and support this year and i think going forward from after this year's conference we'll be sitting

and spending some time with lana and other people that are involved uh to work out what that uh funding looks like and how best we see that kind of distributed across the kind of cyber security community um across australia and see who can benefit from that and it may be supporting people from eastern states that wouldn't otherwise be able to come across to uh to perth in the future and when the when the world stops burning um but uh yeah we'll see what that looks like and it's pretty exciting for us to be able to have an opportunity to put something else back out into the conference in a um you know over more than just a weekend in september

it is and it's it's pretty exciting so just to recap on that um what does that mean so we've we obviously all those people that have paid for tickets already you're gonna be getting a swag so we're still gonna be off in the live stream for those that can't make it and have paid for your um b-sides we hopefully um i appreciate that um you'll still get your swag you know all the stuff that we included and the live streams um this virtual only option is going to be just that it's going to be virtual only tickets you can watch it from anywhere in the world um again the tickets are free but there's an option

to pay we strongly encourage you to make some sort of donation to xerox cc which you can do when you sign up for the tickets um because it is a really good cause as nigel stated and um we're really keen to support them um so we'll we'll put something up on twitter and linkedin later on today but um anyone that wants to join get on it cool right before we go to bring kev from kinetic it in i'll just address some of the questions um silvio yes you noticed that my top has dolls written on it when you order at the swag shop there is a customize button so you can get anything you want printed

on anywhere on the uh the hoodie uh and the shirts i believe so uh yeah go nuts on that of course uh we had a question for laptops regarding the ctf will there be power available yes there is heaps of power around the place you don't need to worry about having good battery life on your laptop uh and george yes the stream might be dropping it could be me it could be the connection i'm not sure i believe the audio is all good but we'll make sure we sort that out before the uh big weekend great cool all right so let's um let's cut over to kev from connecticut all right back in a sec

all right and we are back cool so as i spoke to you about before we've you know we besides perth heavily relies on sponsors and this year we've got we've had the biggest um subscription of sponsors we've ever had for b-sides we've got some really big names and um we're really thankful and honoured to have those people a part of us um what makes it even more special is companies like kinetic rt who have been a sponsor you know with b-sides back from when it was an initial idea in in dolls niger my head back in 2016 2017 and i know conversations we had with kev around that particular time there was no issues about

being willing and keen to support that idea before anything was even existed so for those that have run a conference before that at those initial year second year it's really hard to try and get some sponsorship onto a conference that hasn't been run yet for three dodgy looking people um who are asking for money to run a conference so we do really appreciate it so as i said we've got kev o'sullivan from kinetic i.t protect plus um kev good to have you online um you know as i said connect's been a sponsor of b-sides perth since the start obviously see value in b-sides and b-sides perth what what can you tell us about your experience with b-sides perth

so far yeah thanks people just first up mate um just like to congratulate the three of you for just continuing progressing with these sides um just watching development over the last couple years has been quite outstanding and even with the where we are the global situation and it's well i think we just have to recognize we're pretty lucky to be able to have this event the way that you are running it and and a big call out to you to actually um create those virtual tickets all that going to a good cause so i mean that sort of leads into you know our involvement when you when you established this it was all about the community

it's always making it really accessible making it inclusive and even in the previous events um knowledge even seeing your your young door all the time come along to events to the event um that's that's why we sponsor it because we see that uh contributing to building capability that's australian um having a a a way to showcase the talent we have in both perth and you've had some international speakers come in and we've got like a bunch of really capable men and women um from across australia always also contributing as well so that's kind of the core of why we're involved yeah that's awesome thanks thanks kevin appreciate appreciate your comments on that and it is it's been really good

work with you as well um so i know we haven't released we've released these speakers um we haven't released the search schedule yet but um what what topic are you most excited about seeing this year's event or any any b-sides really i mean what what sort of talks do you like listen to the most oh man i'll tell you what man i think you've got over 40 speakers in this this year's event um so and all the topics are so so diverse but i mean there's a couple that i'm really kind of really keen to look at um one's from bex i know she's from paraflash she's one of your colleagues niger you know you look at even the

topic around digital transform transformation of the illicit economy and outsource crime providers what what what a what a leading line there and i think i'm really interested to hear about her war stories and um upset fails and things like that really keen to see that one um also the we've got um andre who's a a student from curtin university um and you know he's talking about social engineering and you know there's plenty of fish in the sea and he's got some new new new sort of um definitions around fishing and smishing and the whole work so i think that should be really great to hear what's happening from from his view from andre university and also with gareth

um i know gary's been around for a long time but you know even his thing about you know he's keen to sort of talk about the non-obvious in cyber so they're the three that you know i'm really keen to look at but i mean the the color of talks is pretty pretty next level so the event's going to be awesome it is and i know um i know we spent a bit of time looking at the talks there was a range of a great range of submissions and unfortunately were some we had to say no to just because we couldn't fit them in nigel's done an excellent job trying to get everyone's talk time down so we can get as many

people talking as possible which is great um so nigel's probably got a few more grey hairs from organizing the schedule and trying to get those ticket numbers ticket times down talk time's down it's been a long week so kev what about um you know what i'll go a bit more broad here what um challenges do you see today in current cyber security industry i mean i know it's a bit of a bit of a vague a bit of open question um maybe particularly towards cyber security careers and people want to get into the industry yeah i guess it i mean there's there's so much i mean the the industry is quite broad but i guess the

the main challenge i see is just the narrative um you know because there's a lot there's lots of technical terms um and like us as cyber professionals we kind of can tend to lean towards making things complex and i think the challenge is we just need to simplify the language to make it a little bit more uh accessible understood across other people who aren't in the industry that we're playing in because we all know it's just not one-dimensional there's just so many elements of it and i think the main challenge is to make it more accessible and understood so let's simplify the how we talk about it yeah that's that's cool i completely agree there and the next

question i guess this is something that we've you know when we used to work together and we're looking at um hiring people and getting people in the subsequent industry um to you what what skills set people apart so when you look at hiring cyber security people what what do you look for in particular what what what do you think sets them above the rest you know i i'll just i'll answer it more broadly if that's okay pete i mean the thing for me it's it's this industry it's it's all about diversity diversity of thought diverse experience diversity of background it's a the industry is very inclusive and welcoming so there's so many different like roles

that that people can walk into and even if they're coming from other sort of verticals or other experiences but there's no surprise we'd all be talking about the same thing it's all that willingness to learn um able to adapt to change like things are pretty rapid and fast moving engagement with teams and people um and being creative and i think that's kind of the core sort of foundations that we look at people and obviously this people have different personalities but personas and it's not all about being the extroverts you know welcoming those introverts and those deep thinkers it's just uh it's a great great environment industry that working yeah yeah exactly right and last question for you kev i know that um

you've got a few things organized this year's conference you know kinetics always been um keen on getting people into the cyber security industry and promoting their career and all that sort of stuff what have you guys got in store this year oh we've got a couple of things so we're having a sort of a breakout sort of session where we've got a few um from our crew from our recruiting team um even like shane from one of our uh our testers we've got a few sort of challenges and sort of things to talk to our our people about the sort of roles we've got to offer so it's a very interactive thing mate so we're really really really excited to

see the people come along to the event um so yeah so there'll be a lot of people from across our business who were there to talk to uh the a lot of people actually come to the event so there's a bunch of things um that will be i guess release as we get closer to the the weekend awesome thanks kevlar i appreciate you joining today's call again and really appreciate kinetic rt's uh sponsorship in particular platinum sponsorship this year it's greatly appreciated and look forward to seeing you there again this year kev oh good mate i really appreciate the opportunity thanks guys cheers awesome thanks kev cheers

all right so next up we might have a chat to icd yes it's one of our speakers now uh you can check out all of the speakers that we've got uh on the website there's a button right at the top four speakers go and check them out um but right now we'll we'll have a chat to ian you're on stage so icd basting based in canberra you're going to be talking about some sock stuff but firstly so um don't know if everyone knows this but you're a comfy con organizer so you're aware of a pain for running a conference i am uniquely uh shall we say understand that the challenges i guess the um the thing

i've always said is i'll never run a physical conference just because i have insane amount of work you guys need to put in to run a physical conference um you know the virtual one i i think like the fact that you're running a virtual one and a physical one at the same time makes you more brave than i am because trying to link those two worlds together is going to be really worth it i think like 100 bringing everyone together from everywhere especially when you put us filthy eastern siders who are not allowed to come into your wonderful state we'll leave that alone um but bringing the whole community together and making sure that they can

all interact they can all learn and then they can all um work together towards that single building cyber security capability across the country yeah cool and and so you're gonna be you're gonna be talking at b-sides perth this year tell us about you you are first i've heard of it no no so so i'll i'll i'll start with the background to this actually because um i won't say it's the reason why i'm talking but it was a a bet that was made between myself and a certain nadovsky in a pub in canberra in april and it was something along the lines of if i submitted to besides perth he would submit to b-sides no scenario b-sides um

comfy con and unfortunately comfy con was gonna happen and he didn't submit a talk so i fulfilled mind the bargain he did not fulfill his in the bargain i'm not saying that's an indicator of future success with the badges but i know that's the whole subject we'll hold him accountable i just don't recall specifying a year it will it will definitely happen i think the dates changed and some stuff going on just clashed but it's it's definitely there in the offing and semi drafted okay well we'll get you we'll get it in your performance review for a year and that'll make it definitely happen um but um yeah so um some of you guys know that

i've been spending the last two years basically building socks for a number of federal government agencies and it's insane sometimes where you start from you start from like i need a sock and you go well why do you need a sock and they don't really have an answer it's like a sock is really cool and it will help defenders and all this kind of stuff so um it's it's kind of looking at what the questions you need to ask but also what the flow-on effects to those questions are a lot of people don't understand that if you change one small thing you can change a whole ralph to other issues and a great example of that is do i go

eight tall sorry nine to five do i go seven or seven or do i go 24 7. the manning requirements when you go between those things completely changes your costing profile and all of that should be driven by what you actually want out of the stock so the talk is basically trying to get people to people who are trying to build those socks people who say i want a sock to understand what they are actually asking for and what kind of questions they should be working through before they actually go and press the button and say we're going to have a sock yeah now that sounds awesome and um you know up from from working at stock

before completely understand the challenges from that and um the differences between you know as you said business hours compared to 24 hours you know it's big big changes right yeah you can go from you can go from having like five people nine to five to needing 50 people for a 24 7. like just noting the shift rosters and all that kind of stuff the cost can increase so dramatically they can just on a side note dolls looks like we're having issues with the stream a few people saying it's buffering um not sure if it's still recording but um we'll continue on as if it is there's a few changes we can make for the next one and

and obviously the conference on the day noticed a few issues so we'll we can clean them up but we can't do much about it right now all good um icd thanks a lot i appreciate you um joining today's call um hope all is well over there and uh stay safe and we'll be speaking to you on the 18th 19th of september yeah not a problem thank you guys for making it so that i can still talk to you guys because i'm really i love besides perth you guys know that i came down in 2019 i think that was actually my first b-sides to be honest so i'm really keen to actually come back and uh to talk to you guys again

awesome great thanks for watching don't forget all right just us again i think we've probably just got a few points to close out now that is all of our guests it is it is so probably just want to again reiterate the value that the sponsors bring to the conference um really important to have sponsors on board i'll make it very clear we can't have a conference without sponsors it's um you know the first couple of years that we ran the conference uh we had to foot the bill out of our own pockets and try and get some of that money back over time but you know it is a costly exercise um now having the response involved helps

us run the conference effectively and efficiently which is excellent uh so we really do thank them um very much for being able to help us run that uh virtual tickets just making sure everyone's aware that we'll be sending out some uh more info on links this afternoon and uh i think that's it anything from you dolls nice no i think just thanks everyone for joining in this uh this live stream we might try to do another one in the next couple of weeks before the conference uh if not the next one will be at the conference so or from the conference awesome cool all right well thanks guys that's that's i think that's a wrap and uh we'll we'll

put this up on it live so hopefully if it's um if it's not choppy and not uh streaming for everyone to record it you can watch again later if you really want to excellent thanks everyone okay take care everyone

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