An Appetite for Hacking: What to do if Cyber Actors Steal your Food

all right good is anyone in farming or agriculture there's a disproportionate ratio of hands going up yeah okay good so keep me honest if I say anything that's not accurate um I wish I could answer all the questions that were supposed to be answered in the in the flyer but what what are we going to do if hackers steal our food did he want to watch the keynote also who watched the Keynote great great opening I think so many good points there one of the things I'm not going to do today is give you any zero days okay he did say they might come up but it's not coming up on this one this is going to

be more fun more thought-provoking I'm not going to have many answers on what to do here but I am going to just talk about a couple things that I'm seeing in the world today as it relates to cyber and Agricultural and food and some of the things going on in big events over the course of the past few months if nothing else I'm a retired FBI agent anyone from the government in here that's willing to admit it most of the people working the government out here aren't willing to admit it um spent just over 20 years doing uh everything from chasing terrorists around the world to working in a cyber spot and retired out of the Atlanta

office which had a couple fairly significant events recently some of you may have heard of a little pipeline that had some ransomware there was also a credit monitoring system that had a little bit of issues with the Chinese suspected um one of the city governments got hit by the Iranians we had a few things again suspected we had a few things go on so retired from the FBI after 20 years I spent about 10 years on our SWAT teams so very technical background that I took into law enforcement and now I'm at FTI consultant where we do a myriad of Consulting like all the consulting firms do but in the cyber security space specifically and after years and years

of looking at very specific attributions pieces I spent a couple years at NSA up at Fort Meade for our fellow nsaires here thanks for what you do spent a few years over in London with our UK counterparts MI5 and MI6 and with the intelligence shops there in the law enforcement side and really took that piece of of what I've learned internationally and domestically and looking at this sort of threat Spectrum thought that I used to be able to give scary speeches until I started working with we have a food and agricultural guy at FTI that's a world leader in food and agricultural threats who knew that was a thing didn't even know that was a thing

I didn't know that was a thing I just thought you show up at Chick-fil-A your Chick-fil-A is ready food's ready you drive away the reality is and what I'm going to talk about is just some of the threats that we're seeing really for the thought provoking try and get a couple questions answers out of here really give you something to think about for like in the previous speech there's things that you just might it might be simple that we could fix things and as we've seen for anyone have babies it went through the baby formula crisis recently it really can affect us in a way that a lot of people don't think about on a day-to-day basis so not meant

to scare anyone but really meant to we'll address one big problem at the end I don't want to give away any too much but I'll address one big problem at the end so this came out recently right a real shooting War could come from a cyber breach anyone surprised to hear that I've been in the industry for a long time I started out in the early 90s uh not a lot has changed keeping it back to the simple right and for years for you especially in the bureau what's going to be the next cyber threat what's next anyone know what the next cyber threat is if you do that's going to business together I'll equip my current company

and go in business with you because I think we'd all be billionaires if we knew what the next cyber threat is but we don't um and we're still having those conversations back and to keep it simple how many people are very confident that all of their backups work and all of their users have good passwords I mean it can't get more simple we don't have to start thinking about the next thing yet because we still can't get stuff that should have been fixed in the 80s right yet so when you see this thing like oh man a real shooting war is coming from cyber it's more than likely going to end up in what we're seeing and

what we've known for years anyone heard of not Petra okay little a little bit of an issue for someone that wanted electricity in the Ukraine before they went to war with them we've seen this already this isn't new but it's still getting press on a daily basis so our the people that make decisions in our lives our bosses our cisos our CEOs our boardrooms are concerned when they see the president United States coming out with this and and probably rightfully so and we've seen that so one of the pieces that agriculture world is how it fuels Ford right anyone deal with commodities anyone trade in Commodities I certainly don't because it's really really confusing pork

bellies and all the stuff that made it out years ago like very very confusing but what I do know is that having lived in Europe a large portion of the the farm and agriculture comes from Ukraine and Eastern Europe and it goes back Across the Western a lot a lot of ours comes from where where does our agriculture come from where Midwest where else South America right it comes from all over the place South America huge right what happens and I'll give you some slides from the USDA in just a minute though the Ukraine controls a lot of pieces of that agriculture piece for the rest of Europe and so I know for for me

anyways a lot of us wouldn't have been tracking you know we know that Russia invaded Ukraine and we know that there was some talks about it and there were some very specific talks back at the end of July about keep bombing us can you just open up our ports and for me I'm like man that's a little bit odd like go ahead you keep just can you just open up our Port so we get our grain out but you think about how the world's agriculture moves around and the stuff that comes from the Ukraine that is what I've learned is because from Ukraine grain goes down some of the the fertilizer all that stuff goes down to South America South

America then fertilizes our crops for next year next year that food comes up to American goes throughout the world the crops from the Ukraine goes across Europe so what happens if you can't get that grain out of the Ukraine or places that are growing those sort of things and responsible for fertilizer you have lots of issues down the road and so this was fairly eye-opening or it should be I'll play the video real quick this is also one of the things from the previous speaker what to do in your presentations putting videos in a presentation is much aligned with doing a live cyber demonstration in a presentation frowned upon but I'll try it anyways and it's not that much of it doesn't

really actually happen if anyone could translate please do but this is significant they said all right Russian said we're going to open up your grain we're going to open the ports and as soon as that started happening they bombed it fairly big deal and the Russians know this as well because what do the Russians have that we all have they have we have a lot of mouths that have to be fed so they know about food you know who else has a lot of mouths to feed that could be an adversary in our world in the cyber world the China oh thank you look at that that was in unison that was almost like we've not prepared for this

the Chinese and they have and we'll go through a couple slides about that as well this is from uh the USDA so you look at this which is a trusted source for me you look at some of these numbers Ukraine's run the world's top agricultural producers did anyone know that before anyone think about that as a threat to what we're doing you didn't are you in agriculture all right good I was hoping someone would have agricultural background like that's Todd that's ridiculous that's not true but you look at these numbers from the USDA employment for about 15 of the population 55 of the land is arable I mean this is a lot this is a big deal for a country

that's dealing with threats like not pecha and Russia right so we get back to the Cyber piece and I'll keep drawing that back in over and over again if you look at some of the stuff we're seeing going on in the world also as with the inflationary pressure and these slides are from these are from uh our FTI guys names rich koppmeier again you give a cyber presentation you could scare the pants off someone he gives his presentation on very specific numbers related to inflationary Agriculture and food and you're like oh my God I better start stockpiling does anyone a prepper that wants to admit to that I'll invite you to one of those presentations you'll start prepping

peanut butter by 55 gallon drums of peanut butter it lasts forever but you look at some of these threats that are on here right fertilizer back to the fertilizer piece while we while we think about the wheat and the food that's there right now we have to look at how it affects things Downstream and how many years is that going to cause some sort of inflationary pressure on food products that were seen in the grocery stores today and how is that affected by any sort of cyber threat that could come in directly to Farmers Grain ports as we just saw systems that the farmers are using how does that affect what we're seeing on our cyber and why does that matter if

we're cyber people why are you talking to me about farming stuff well that that's cyber risk it's it's a risk to Our Food Systems because the normal Farmers anyone have family that's in farming the normal farmer is not just you know Jimmy the farmer down the street that's going to get on his tractor these are very complex complicated systems now it's going to put one up about milk does anyone drink milk I'd put it up but it would scare you you wouldn't want to drink milk anymore and some of the conspiracy theories side of this is that as we're looking at these farming systems if I can manipulate one thing and I'll cover JBS just because

it's obligatory when you're talking about food and cyber but if I could manipulate one check and balance like all right so when all these things go through some of these Farming Supply pieces and you get further up into the middleware there's checks and balances to make sure your fruits and meats and everything are good they're still they're not rancid there's no poison in them what if I just checked again changed that flag from false to true so yep all true all this meat is constantly good keeps shipping it out shipping around the world how long before someone figures that out is that how many gastrointestinal issues do we have before then so Drive here's my obligatory one JBS we

have to talk about JBS um not only is it the ransomware piece but you look at some of these plants that were closed around the U.S now we're dealing with food employment 11 million Ransom anyone in the Cyber Insurance business like there you go did you cover them are you willing to tell us if you covered them would your company want to pay out this Ransom and what would your premiums be after you pay out 11 million Ransom like that the insurance companies are in the business of making money they're not in the business of making it easier for us right so this is you figure how that happens 11 million dollars these plants are closed

unemployment and then look where else is impacted around the world Australia and Canada and places all over the world that are impacted by something that we simply see in a very good flashy nor O'Donnell piece 11 million Ransom paid but all those pieces that fall out along the lines for the food and agriculture how much was affected because of a cyber event that affected our meat Supply okay if you're a vegetarian but now uh the rest that aren't I mean those are massive issues and it's okay if you're a vegetarian unless your family is employed in any of those places that are now affected by a Cyber attack and might not be getting paid it's a

waterfall effect on so many of these things our foreign partners are seeing this as well this is from BBC cyber security it's a global food supply chain at risk of hackers and this is along the lines of some of the things that you see when ransomware like JBS and Colonial makes the big headlines anyone have a boss at work anyone's work in the business of making money so that company that just might have lost 11 million dollars are people happy is your day going to be good like great good job systems weren't patched probably didn't have backups paid out 11 million this just keep going this is going to be a fun day we see this over and over again

that the this sort of headline is affecting us in ways that now it's going to affect people at their house right it's affecting food on your table if it's tied to a Cyber attack it's going to make your day worse than it started out also obligatory I have to put in here the FBI slides just because I'm proud of the work that they've done in this space they're getting better by the day if you don't have a relationship with your local FBI office I would highly encourage you to make that relationship in the Cyber Arena every single one of the Cyber every single one of the FBI offices has a cyber task force that will

want to talk to you about what you're doing what you're seeing and how to collaborate so I'd highly recommend it and as a result you will get access to this sort of information as soon as it comes out there's my I didn't get paid for that that's just free it used to be easy I'd say I'm here from the government I'm here to help but these are you look back at the dates on this September of 21 and then as soon as you know recently April 2022 you see that these sort of things are coming out so not going to pull this but think about this inside with your inside voices how happy are you with what the government

gives you and provides for information and if they're willing to put this stuff out it's because they're seeing it and they're seeing it at such a pace that it has to be shared and this is specifically talking about food and agriculture in both places and in agricultural co-ops because the businesses of co-ops and food is huge one of the biggest uh contributors to our GDP is food nag there's food and agricultural protection centers anyone heard of these people that are that work on this specifically not only for DOD but for some of the the food defense counterparts normally do do people leave but food protection and defense this is from University of Minnesota but there's people out there

that are looking at how to do this specifically back to interest identify your interest if this is if you have some interest in agriculture or food and cyber man there's such a need for you and hopefully we'll get that out in this presentation that there's a need to stand up this sort of thought process and protecting what we all need on a daily basis what about this again could be fatal flaw number two but one more video from February major Cyber attack on its institutions I'll leave it for a second

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hopefully a little cyber Awards look like your sock right now just cyber War left and right [Music]

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and so I put that in there one I one of the things that I do in my presentation is I pull from a bunch of different news sources just so that it's not slanted one way or another I try to make it so it's not slanted one way or another but this overlaps with exactly what Biden said in our first in our first slide right is that if if our country can't have some sort of faith in that our systems are safe and sound and then you you can't get food and some irrational decision maker decides to send in troops it's a possibility and it's what we're seeing he talks about being able to pay

for groceries so imagine if a plant gets hit there's actually very limited Supply and then you actually can't pay for it because those systems are hit too and your financial systems are hit it's really looking at that how that whole ecosystem of food and cyber and Banking and all those pieces tied together and they were seeing it that's what they were seeing happen to them so not only they are supplying the food which they can't get out because the ports are closed now people can't pay for the food and it's I think one of the pieces he says in there is that people are going to be afraid that the uh the government the state's not in control I

think we've already gone through that here in the U.S and then one more let's see if this one works I think this one probably will not work this one will break on me

which is okay as well this was this is one that I had a very hard time getting to work but is really talking about um Farmland being bought by the Chinese and specifically talking about a base in North Dakota that the the Chinese owned hundreds of millions of of uh heck takers here in the U.S and there's a cypheus council of foreign investments the reviews is supposed to review this type of investment from foreign adversaries or foreign parties that might be a risk to our national security there in my opinion we really have to be careful where this Farmland is being bought up because of foreign Nations control our Farmland that then control our food that tie it into our banks that

tie into our ecosystem we have some massive issues again USDA tracks what each one of these countries do you could see corn and if um if that sypheus video would have played you'll see that they're saying that it was a cornmeal they were buying it so they could they could grow corn have a cornmeal in the U.S and North Dakota just happens to be by one of our more secretive military bases um pure happenstance I'm sure who doesn't want Farmland in North Dakota right everyone does especially the Chinese because clearly they're lacking their corn production um I mean they're they're just basically starving now the reality is they do have a billion miles to feed so they have to

grow corn they have to know how to grow these things because so many of these things are at the base of what all our food is produced on but why are they buying stuff so close to a military base in North Dakota when look at the numbers of what they're making this is like translating gigabytes to terabytes there's some zeros after that thirty six thousand it's a lot of land and a lot of corn they're producing according to the USDA um except for North Dakota coin I'm sure that's going to be a fantastic uh sell in Wuhan come on get your North Dakota corn and we've seen um through the years we've seen this is

from Monsanto if anyone's heard of Monsanto a little tiny company here in the U.S this is uh from 2019 where we've seen a suspected and proven Chinese spy that was literally stealing the the agricultural data for tractors like how to make those move around who would have thought would anyone think that that's a threat like my tractor like that tractor if you drive around Augusta no offense people in this part of Georgia we live up in Atlanta there's tractors and yards like who thinks there's going to be a Chinese spy trying to steal that we've also seen them and caught them and it's not in this presentation but you could Google some of this stuff going out to fields

in Iowa looking for looking for and stealing genetic seeds companies spend a lot of money in making sure that the Watermelons that used to be this big are now this big and the Watermelons used to have a lot of seeds now have no seeds and corn is all beautiful yellow not the nasty stuff the companies spend a lot of money to make their stuff look like that and how to grow more and again the Chinese have a lot of mouth to feed they have to they want to feed and should feed their people so if they could just steal this stuff why why build it and re-engineer it themselves so as an update on this one he did was

found guilty he got two years and 150 000 fine for stealing Trade Secrets um but I mean that who would have thought about that nutrient Optimizer is what he was really trying to get has anyone tried to steal nutrient optimizer does anyone have any nutrient optimizer and then back to ransomware this big Co-op and again the big numbers and the massive amount of headlines that makes it and it depends on what your optic is for us in this room our optic we're probably all going to immediately go to oh man ransomware some of us go to black matter be like oh man those are Russians very few of us in the world that have that sort of level of background that's

going to care about black matter and ransomware will then say man new Cooperative that's a really important business for us to be able to feed our families does that that doesn't translate in our world most of the time but I'm I'm arguing that it probably should we should start thinking about how all these things tie into the ecosystem um some people are my insurance friend in the back like oh that one's only six million thank goodness statement save me half half of what I had to pay out but you think about that right this whether or not it was a targeted attack or not I don't know but you think about the effect that these sort of things could

have we've seen it on new cooperative and JBS we know that it has an effect on our food supply and that's before we get into anyone in crypto if you have any crypto people okay good crypto companies or you just have your wallet and your seed and everything on your phone all right awesome anyone want to buy a go meet tokens you can buy them um I did pull up the uh the places that deal with go meet here in the Augusta area they're a niche meet food delivery trying to focus on Halal type stuff pretty interesting but look at they're they're saying this put this all in the blockchain this this two use tokens I do

think and this is a little off topic I do think that we'll see like we saw the gift card wave happen in the late 90s and now everyone gives gift cards I do think at some point there might be digital assets as far as if you want to buy something at Best Buy you have to buy the Best Buy token and you can use Best Buy tokens and then they could track everything we'll see um but they're doing it already with food they're doing it with our food with our meat they got they so they could track the whole production to make sure things are Halal they could track the whole thing pretty ingenious Pig butchering anyone

heard of pig butchering it's not food related I just thought it was pretty neat and tied into the presentation I'm not going to play this presentation this piece but Pig butcher all right your fridges who has a smart fridge iot no one's going to admit to that now like my hands down um before I saw the previous presentation I was going to put this video in has anyone seen Silicon Valley any episodes of it not really the most audience friendly language that goes on in there or the but if you look at this YouTube video you can see where they they get into it over hacking each other's fridge that scans and then they they go back

and forth of how to hack that fridge but the reality is when you look at the it OT threats that are out there anyone in that world itot manufacturing yeah I mean the threats are significant do you guys feel like you're getting all the funding and backing and skills and training that you need like everyone's up to speed now okay that's what and that's what we're seeing over and over again if you get back to what that normal modern farming system looks like it is itot all over the place and we'll talk about in just a minute but yeah your fridge and other devices washing machines washers and dryers and microwaves all these things that are

connected to how you deliver your food drones who's a drone operator drone pilot registered all right drones in agriculture if you haven't ever looked at these things fascinating as well I mean they could deliver fertilizer they could see crops I'll show you a picture in just a second of what what they look at on a on a field it's fascinating but has anyone seen hack the drones or the cameras that are out there that could control a drone now right or you think about some of the government capabilities that you could geofence an area off and know last year I worked the World Series and we could see if any drones were in no fly areas and make

them set down so what if you could do that to the food we just geofence off a farm that relies on drones and we don't want any fertilizer to go there so the crops die

amazing I didn't know that was happening so we're supposed to walk around I did see a couple people with tin foil that's over my years I didn't realize that was why they knew kovid was coming before that happened but you look at back the itot if anyone had any of these issues who would like to talk about them feel free to join in we still have you know 15 20 minutes um but this is a Snyder Electric piece plcs and this came out and a lot of this was very specifically related to the farming and agriculture Arena these are things that if you aren't in this world talking about Nano pocs and and that sort of terminology or verbiage this

will be much like our boardroom ciso CEOs I.T people accounts payable you will shut down immediately you're like all right none of those things matter m238 boring shutdown next slide please these things are critically important to Agriculture and to our Farmers right now whether the farmers know it or not AI is anyone dealing with AI anyone working in the AI Arena I mean look at look at this is a picture I was talking about look at how they're looking at Fields right they're looking at a very specific data it's data driven so if we could start hacking into that that's another emerging threat that's out there the risk of AIS and there's tons of of uh of articles about this out

there if you are interested in this sort of world of AI and Agriculture and how that ties together but you think about it again back to that corn if I have 10 seeds of corn can I make sure that all 10 ears of corn grow out nice and beautiful white stock you know how how do I want that to look and if it's 50 grows then I have an issue right 50 of my product is bad how can I work on this through Ai and ways to improve agriculture and now for the Crux of this as we get towards uh towards the end of the presentation onto questions and answers here's a major concern bourbon drinkers

there we go finally some audience buy-in I was going to start with this but I didn't want to scare anyone so I saved it towards the end so as you're doing presentations animation don't do them look at that 51 percent of it some of you knew this corn all right what if our corn goes away whiskey horrific potatoes all right that's gonna change the taste of your of your Bourbon and now we all think this is a real important matter before it's like oh food great I'll be a vegetarian I don't need JBS can't be a vegetarian I'll drink bourbon now now we're in trouble bourbon all right I heard a couple you say Alternatives all right good what about

beer they got hacked too look at this months they had issues laughs good point good point taken um yep yeah all the microbrews are just fine all the ipas you guys are okay still for now um as long as you as long as you don't like Coors or bourbon you're not in trouble but you think about look at the the numbers here um just two million hectoliters that sounds like a lot I don't know how many cans that is but it sounds like a lot 120 million 140 million ebitda like that's those numbers who here would be interested in working if you could take 50 percent of that just uh help them through that with your cyber

skills right most people if you're not we could talk to them about just contract negotiations that's a whole different presentation that's another hour some some takeaways that I want you to have here the supply chain is vulnerable right it's it's beyond just showing up in that Chick-fil-A drive-through and food getting delivered and everything's good right we've seen it firsthand recently within this year we've seen the baby food issues we've seen JBS hit and there's enough right now so that we don't have to worry but what's the down chain the the downstream effects going to be of wars and geopolitical issues and if they know that that's happening can they attack our systems because they know that we're having food issues

Farmers again it's not just you know Todd the farmer that drives a tractor anymore just going to get out and so some hay no the the technology they're using is everything from drones to AI to itot all the things that is very interesting to us is probably very uninteresting to the people that are responsible for it we have to be aware of that the war in Ukraine is a good example of what's happening and then the realization as I've shown you that the government's care people are out there thinking about it there are Private Industry places that are trying to work on this threat and how can we do this together with the skill set and brains

that we have in the room to help protect something that I should have taken a poll who who eats or drinks in the room first but I think I got 100 because we we need this right it's not something that's just uh a nice thing I did want to add this in for because the the title of the presentation is what can we do any lawyers do we have lawyers in the in the room no one's going to admit that like they'd rather admit crypto or bourbon Drinkers and be a lawyer um but in reality in my world in my experience you we all need our lawyers on our side when we're dealing with cyber again in very different world we

will have the best anyone doing an intrusion response who's on the Intriguing response side lawyers always give you the hard drives and and machines that you actually want right and need they just oh yeah here you go I didn't know you wanted this here you go we need the lawyers on our side from the beginning and anything we're doing in cyber in my opinion in my experience the more we have them on our side and have plans approved ahead of time the better off we are because when that attack does happen the lawyers will make the decisions frequently whether or not you're getting the forensics that you actually need the logs that you need the interviews of people that you need

the things that you need make sure you have communications teams so when you are JBS and when things go sideways are you guys just going to be like oh well that sucks um it sucks for my customers my shareholders my creditors my debtors my everyone I'm sorry fact is and we've learned it recently that you have to have a Communications team that could be willing to talk to lots of different people and different levels of skill sets and knowledge and care have your forensic team and your it team ready and practicing these things it is back to the basics and I say this like uh I've probably been saying this for 20 plus years you have to practice this you

have to keep those things simple oh man wow we're gonna know the ransomware drill no you do that because you learn something every single time is a IT team going to be some experts in the room or is it going to be Best Buy who are you going to use FTI Consulting who is it going to be that you're going to use know that ahead of time know your outside vendors and who's going to provide that assistance if you have endpoint detection you have seam Solutions and socks frequently if anyone's doing all those things from one company alone and one point of contact more power to you I'd love to hear how you do that but the reality is no one's

doing that by themselves know who those vendors are know who you're going to call for assistance immediately because when your food does disappear you're going to wonder what happened and you're not going to know who to call practice that out and then the these sort of presentations these sort of conferences we need to help educate each other I agree 100 with what the previous speaker said we have a glut this is not you know the number of people that are willing to come out and talk about this sort of thing on a Saturday morning I hand it to you and I thank you guys for doing this because this is a small subset of society and everything that we're doing

is moving this direction so we need to keep educating people from our kids to our elderly friends and family we have to help protect them it's a team sport collaboration cyber team sport you've got to build that trust you got to build those relationships before something goes sideways figure out who you can trust um you guys in the room have a lot of cyber skills do you all trust each other right now probably not maybe hopefully your co-worker next to you do otherwise we could also talk about that afterwards but there's a complex threats these aren't simple cut and dry like oh well you just didn't you didn't turn that switch on these are very complicated complex threats and I

will leave you this is my contact information also could be a fatal flaw on a presentation actually giving out contact information but something as you're learning to do presentations um decide whether or not you want to put that on there with that am I asking the questions are they asking the questions I'm asking the questions oh wow a trivia question all right let's go with good questions yes

yeah yeah good great question so the question was you know where do I see this in a priority right of you know top one through ten because resources are finite we have to be able to address things that you clearly want to go to work and get paid tomorrow what do I have to address first um I would say this this should be a high priority but my guess is there aren't enough people in the space looking at this to make sure that things don't happen and I think as long as low light low hanging fruit like ransomware keeps happening that'll start bringing attention but I think that community that segment of the world will probably

not put it high on their priority list for some period of time right because you think about the burn and churn of farming Community as a whole and then getting that processed and then getting that delivered there's so many pieces of that supply chain that are a threat and you could do this as a supply chain threat presentation it just happens to be focused on Ag and so then do you focus on supply chain um so great question um does that one qualify for a good good question I I have to judge whether or not all right lock picking or a USBC Wi-Fi adapter all right thank you all right yes sir

I sure can

I'll try and go past this Bourbon One real quick don't want to scare anyone there you go um this is from sisa it's on their website we're down here um I know is it related to apt-20 all right any other questions no come on come on there we go

yeah the question is where do I see people training to protect itot systems right um I am grid certified and this is I'm not paid by them or anything but by sand I thought their their training class was great there's it's so hard to train in unless you get a little PLC box to play with not that this is PLC I'm just holding it up because this is the size of some of the trainers but those are fun but not if you don't like it right you see this sort of thing you're like oh man that's a lot of numbers and letters that don't make sense and so it's hard to practice it it's hard to train it

that's a good question is anyone else saying a place that itot training is happening that's good

yeah great great point right it's a it's a different world would you like a USBC thank you um it is a different world right this is a where does cyber security blend with the itot automation piece and and how do you actually get that training um when you start digging into it at least my experiences it does get back to more cybery stuff but being able to dig into it that's the hard part understanding how they all tie together where they tie together and what's important that that's hard

yeah yeah so Sans and DHS and interestingly enough one of the sands instructors who's no longer with DHS used to lead their ICS scada incident response so Mark christone he was very good yes sir

great question the threshold for involving law enforcement if your client or friend or family has been hacked I would keep it very low if you have that relationship with whether you wanted to be FBI or Secret Service or DHS or whoever your point of contact is wherever you're at um I would keep it low just there's at least in my experience and I am biased there's not a single cyber Squad out there that doesn't want to hear what you have to say and you could say this you know hypothetically company X might have suffered this what do you think does this matter do you want to investigate it and doesn't mean that they won't necessarily take it and give you

something back but they will take it and see if it ties in anything bigger and then decide if that needs to be addressed but I would keep it low I mean obviously if your Amazon password gets stolen probably not but if it is a company that's going through some sort of breach yeah I'd keep it though I say that now because I don't take the call anymore that's right absolutely

anymore or it's time for a hallway con yes sir

what would you say the ratio was

covered versus no cover at all yeah that's a great question do you guys hear the question who has the right amount of insurance coverage right what what's my experience now now that I've seen both sides I've seen the government side and now the Consulting side what they tell us in the government side was nowhere near all the stuff that you learn in the in the industry side and so I didn't see very much of what happened other than can you recover my money from the government side now on the corporate side I do see that places probably aren't reading their writers completely and that they probably need more coverage than they actually have probably not far off from auto insurance

or some other insurance pieces but I do see that I feel like the insurance world is working better at making sure that the premiums and payouts are being communicated more from my my experience what's yours

The Experience basically is not enough companies understand how serious um

what yeah

the renewals that we're looking at the policies were placing are you know 100 increase of their super dead the insurance can keep up the new ways that they're

agreed and I think it's going to be a fascinating space to watch and the same thing you see it now down in Florida now with Ian right how's that going to affect the hurricane insurance down there you have these massive payouts companies have to keep up they want to protect you but they have to keep up how are they going to do that it's going to be an interesting space you think we'll move to some sort of government-backed cyber insurance

right thank you yes yeah the biggest segue in that we'll be here until sometime tomorrow for those of you like to stay thank you for your time thanks for listening hopefully just a couple thoughts came out of this thank you [Applause]