Modern Day Automobile Safety: Rescue Ops using CanBus

a lot of you know me so I won't even go into the details but uh how many people have gotten into an accident serious accident in your car all right so there's some videos here if you're gonna have PTSD if I show the videos just raise your hand and I'll stop the video so I'm going to talk a little bit about uh fire service and safety and the reason I got into this is the fact that I'll go a little bit through my bio um you could go through my bio but the real realistic is part of it is I was a geek and I was an introvert and uh that was probably all through high school

um oops that didn't show so much for the mayor so I was a geek I was in high school and and um really didn't get involved in anything I come from a really large Italian family six boys and one girl and um I'm proud to say I'm the only boy in my family without an arrest record and part of the reason was because in high school someone actually got me involved in the local fire department uh local volunteer fire department where that was my Hangout and part of that became 40 years as a volunteer firefighter um on top of my parallel uh career as a cyber security and Tech Guy um and eventually uh for the past 13

years I've been a fire instructor and actually I teach vehicle extrication as along with some other um other classes but this was kind of near and dear to my heart so I kind of wear two hats I wear the cyber security hat or the tech hat and I also wear the firefighter hat and this is this idea came out of um some thoughts I had when I was teaching extrication and some of the accidents that have happened lately before we even get started I want to just go through some terms because you'll hear them over and over DBW or drive by wire is basically the method that's actually used in Planes these days uh it's electronic systems so

basically when you go to turn the steering wheel right you're it's actually sending an electrical signal to the steering component or steering actuator so it's not really a direct connection anymore and planes they use this because what they do is they have redundant systems we don't an electrical drive-by-wire systems that's where it came from um the next is something called the controller area network or can bus it's basically the network uh that's used inside of planes cars any type of vehicles uh and then the third is drive by command so drive by command is basically changes the way drive-by wire works instead of having direct wired connections between the steering and the actuator that turns the wheels there's a

central Network can bus and you send a command to the can bus controller which sends it to the send actuator and then the actuator will turn the wheels for you so it's kind of a level of indirection if you think about infrastructure as code this is infrastructure as code so drive that command um it's not to be confused with another DBC drive-by cable which was the really old way of doing things everyone understand that you know okay cool so this is what a DBC example looks like every car manufacturer um has their own DBC definitions so there's no standardization in the industry about drive by command and so here you see uh you know the engine

speed which actually would be the um this ID right here and that ID might be brakes on another car so again every DBC is different and that's one of the downfalls of having this drive back come in is that you can't interchange systems but how many people have cars that where they modify the efficiency on the car using software updates right that's kind of where what what happens is that you end up putting in different commands into the DBC configuration file so um and again you want to get into this area of modern cars and everybody and everything being DBC we've seen a lot of hackers right we started selling Chris Roberts with the airplane right the

navigation system the airplane connected to the uh Entertainment System uh again don't know how true that is actually had Chris Roberts come to speak at our very first conference in a in 2014 and he was actually denied uh the access to the plane to get on the plane so he never spoke um we also saw back in 2015 the jeep that was controlled right remotely right again that was one of the very first areas that can bus exploits being used uh more recently though we saw this uh can bus access through the headlight Port um I give them a lot of credit for uh being very Innovative but if they were smart about cars they know that the

headlight leveler is actually under the rear axle and you can actually just you don't have to break into the car or break the headlight of the car to do it you can just basically slide under the rear axle and put the new sensor there and the basically the way that works is it emulates another actuator and fools the can bus system into believing that it's the anti-lock system or anti-tap system and of course um this I think I pulled up the other day over 16 car makers have similar problems with the can bus and we'll talk about can bus encryption a little bit later on so I'll put my firefighter side on I said you know you have all these hackers

using can bus to do all these crazy things you know change the steering break the system um why can't we do that as a firefighter why can't I do that to help system to help me uh rescue people who are trapped and I'll go through a little bit on what xvocation is any firefighters here there's only one see all right so I'll just give you an idea of what order execution is do we have the sound on this no of course sound does not work that's fine um we could talk to it but basically it's the whole purpose of Auto extrication is to rescue people as a firefighter the rule of thumb is you always leave a scene or a situation

better than when you arrive and that falls down to three things um basically protect people protect lives and then protect property right so um the problem with the with extrication is that it's dangerous to both you and me so um in this particular case actually we just had this in Rockland County last year we had a Tesla qualifier the driver could not get out because the Tesla had electronic door handles right you you touch it and it opens up but when the car was compromised right the electrical system didn't work and uh the manual door handles which is required by nht TSA was actually under a panel under the armrest now if you're in a panic and there's

Flames at your feet are you going to remember that are you gonna remember oh crap did I did I look at the safety manual and find out what that manual handle was you got a question no all right so um you know so this happens actually more often than not and it's been happening more and more with the EVS but uh even with uh regular cars a lot of the the newer cars don't even have manual door handles anymore they all have electric core handles um from a firefighter perspective uh this happened again uh three years ago uh FDNY guy goes to help someone out of an extrication and he's on one side of the car but he needs to get to the other

side of the car to access the person and on the other side of the car was a space between the bridge you could see that up top um right there and he fell through that space so again you know his access was just really really uh detrimental um airbags so basically accessing a rescuer accessing your car even after a crash the airbag goes off it's not um it's not pleasant it's like a brick wall in fact anybody know what the the seat belt pre-tensure you know when you get into an accident the seatbelt actually has electronics that pull it tight do you know why it's pulling you tight so you don't hit the airbag while it's

inflating it's pulling you back in your seat so that way when you hit the airbag the airbag is actually deflating that's how it absorbs the shock you hit it when it's deflating and then that's when it makes you safe if you hit it while it's inflating you're gonna have issues and then finally you know this uh the fob based Vehicles this uh they ran an accident in the FDNY last year and this vehicle just rolled over because the fob was close to the ignition and it leaned on on a piece of uh I guess the driver's uh side leaned on it and it started the car up and had the car rolling firefighter was okay he broke uh his uh

leg in two places um but again we can prevent all that that's all preventable stuff so I want to talk about the way firefighters think um just like your sock teams we have a Playbook and our Playbook consists of three things the process our process is number one stabilize the vehicle number two get EMS access to the vehicle right get access to the patient and number three then we worry about taking the patient out egress so stabilization access to egress and a lot of this conversation following this will will flow with that um next we also prepare for the unexpected right if the fires happen on an accident um I was just saying earlier in the old

outside of the pinto which used to you know blow up when you hit rear-ended it a lot of people maybe not remember that but uh a lot of cars didn't really catch fire when they were an accident why because you had a heavy frame it was a metal frame um the gas tank fuel tank was actually pretty well situated within that frame with modern cars we have crash loans right and uh they're made to collapse well what's in the rear collapse area fuel tank so a lot of times we get more fires now with accidents than we did before and that's something to remember so we always have to worry about that and actually exit exigency measures

basically means that if a life is involved right let's forget about stabilize access just pull the sucker out and that's kind of uh you know again we always have that in the back of mind and we actually practice that because the more you practice the more it becomes routine yes muscle memory and finally we always show up at a scene we always have a plan a what looks what looks good and at the surface may not look may not be the case so we have a plan B and maybe we have some issues with tools or maybe we have issues with the positioning of the vehicle we have plant C we keep going plan after plan the way I teach

extrication is I give each team of four people 30 seconds to operate and after 30 seconds they have to step away and the next team comes in kind of trains them to a observe see what's going on and do they continue that tactic or do they try a different tactic again the way we work is we have to constantly follow this and again if you guys are in sock teams you kind of do the same thing right from a cyber world so uh this is a this is a pretty long video but basically shows all those different aspects um I'll talk to it because sounds not working but um if any of you feel quizzy

just raise your hand and I'll stop the video so in this case we have a car into a tractor trailer um the uh driver there was only the driver in the car and he's trapped so the dashboard came when he hit the back of the truck the dashboard comes down onto his legs and traps him in so he we really can't get him out at this point um what makes this a little more difficult is the tractor Trail itself caught fire so we have the contents of the tractor trailer uh that are on fire and we have to manage that as well the uh the uh other issue that happens is when a car goes into the back of the track trailer

gets pushed down right so the suspension gets compressed meaning that it's like it's basically jammed in there there's really no way to just pull it out uh and and try and get to it unless you we do something called capturing the suspension so there's a fire in the back of the truck um so we have to handle Fire Control we have to figure out you know we have to have a whole crew that does that that's at least two to three people so two people on the hose line one person for safety at the scene we actually have um usually one person with the patient and then one person for safety then for the extrication or the access component

of cutting doors off we have at least two people um with the operations of the tools and one person for safety so you see how the amount of resources adds up can we cut this down uh and again this video is uh it's it's spliced this operation was about an hour and a half long so we cut it down to basically four minutes but you see all things that are happening we have saws out we have hoses out we have uh uh extrication tools out meaning Cutters and spreaders um we actually at one point brought in a rig with a winch and um tried to winch the truck out once we captured the suspension uh and that feels I think

we'll show that in a little bit here um but that didn't work so we had another plan to go and get a heavy tub there's the the rig with the winch in the front and I think once they capture the suspension which means they hold the Springs tight they're gonna try and pull that that truck out just to give them a little more room right they can't expand the dashboard until they take the truck off of it um victim is alert uh he was not talking one of the things you learn in expectation is that um when something's painful people scream when it's really painful they're quiet so just kind of uh things you you see uh

and actually while we're looking at this I'll tell you um I've been a firefighter for 40 years I probably remember maybe three or four of the big fires I've been to but I remember every execution I've been to I remember every face every accident every person anybody know what this tool is yes now it's called the hallion this is about 20 pounds you want to feel it it's maybe 20 25 pounds pretty heavy duty tool right this is the all-purpose tool for extra vacation before the hydraulic tools this was the tool we'd use to open up doors right to break Windows uh and we don't smash windows by the way we just put pressure on them to break because you

don't want someone to um you can pass it around if you want um just don't swing it at anyone uh I listen I'm surprised security let me through they the only reason they let me through with that because they had no clue what it was so um but yeah you could pop tires with it you can open up doors there's a lot you can do with that it's an all-purpose tool um it was actually developed by um the F I'm sorry not it was yeah it was at the NY um because they were going uh got went to a fire call where there was a bank robbery and the bank robbers actually had their homemade tool like that that

they were using to pry into uh scuttles on the roof so the firefighter saw that he says oh yeah I can make that better and so that's how that came about so um okay so we see um say bro after the the winch didn't work right they brought in a tow truck a heavy tow um to pull the vehicle out and all they need to do is pull the vehicle out just a little bit just so they can get access you also notice that and while I was talking they probably cut the the door the the passenger door off right the rear door off as well as cut the B post the post that sits between the front and

rear door right so they cut it right here right so this all things that we have to do um next thing he's doing he's cutting right here the cutting the seat because now to get them out right if you can't lift the dash what's the next thing we do move the seat back right or lean them back to get them out and once we get them out then he goes in so pretty again pretty complicated situation but it's not uncommon uh again like I teach extrication and I'll and I'm this is actually um the taken from the course I teach is all the skill sets uh so the skill sets for stabilization right stabilize the

outside of the vehicle meaning you know keeping it from rolling and stabilizing the inside of the vehicle meaning keeping it from starting up again the way we do external stabilization or if we forget to do an external stabilization happens

this was actually I believe in Mexico so

you don't want to ever have that happen to you and you don't want to have ever have want to have people videotaping it um that's one of the rules in the firehouse is that assuming you're being videotaped all the time so our um uh Gallo sense of humor is usually quiet on the scene second is interior stabilization now he's using the Italian rate to kind of open up the hood and uh again this is a this is about a one minute video just open up the hood why do you think they're opening up the hood anybody know just to cut the battery all this work just to cut the power right do you think that could resources

could be spent better and actually tending to the victim right I can't tell you when we teach extrication how much time is spent people can't get the freaking hood open right and you know in my mind when we're dealing with EVs and we're dealing with uh high voltage Vehicles there are voltage disconnects along many parts of the vehicle so you can do that but the 12 volt system is really not an issue anymore the 12 volt system can actually stay energized so even though I teach that we say don't focus on that if you can't get that hood open in 30 seconds get to the victim let's get the victim out of there because nobody's salvaging

that car it's it's it's basically a write-off um second is EMS access and that basically comes through Let's uh get and get to the victim as quick as we can and just uh we worry about spinal injuries that's the number one worry we get and then we worry about all the other things that are happening um and then once we can get to the victim we want to get take out all the windows we can just to again get more people in leaning in and helping out and then of course we worry about uh getting the doors open so again this doesn't have much sound but um they're talking about explaining how to stabilize somebody's

neck it's a typical EMS stuff um glass removal and again we look at the all the different steps that it takes here and again a lot of it's manual but again what can we do to kind of make this better anybody want to be a firefighter yet nobody no anybody want to stop driving yet so if you notice as uh they're using a Sawzall or reciprocating saw um when I teach I actually have my firefighters sit in the car one crew sits in the car while the other crew is sitting on the outside why because that sound and again we can't hear now but that sound inside the car Echoes it's deafening and if you're

bleeding and you have a broken bone and you're waiting for somebody to pull you out that is a scariest sound you can have right um same thing with the door opening you're going to hear all these creaking and popping sounds from the uh from the spreaders and you're not gonna know what's going on you're just gonna hear metal ripping around you and then you don't know what's happening so again keeping this in mind we want to try and be as quiet or as as smooth as possible um just to give you an idea you see this thing here anybody know what that's called the Nader pin or staple developed by this guy named Ralph Nader

okay I'm really aging myself now he was a uh activist for car safety and that's one of the outputs of his work was to make sure the doors latch securely because doors were opening up you know kids were flying out you know um maybe on purpose but Vander pen is really really difficult to get through it's hardened steel it's actually sometimes easier to cut around it than to cut through it um and then uh victim egress and again uh well the dash roll remember I said Dash comes down on you we can actually their techniques we used to roll it um third door technique basically says take the front door in the back door and

cut the post in between you make a bigger door opening uh roof removal we use this uh a lot because um if we have all the Cutters out and we're cutting all the posts let's just cut them all and get the roof out that way we can get better access and victim removal is basically packaging the victim so this is called a ram Ram is lifting up that uh that Dash probably about six inches you only need like two or three inches to get the victim out but they're just demonstrating it problem with this is that this was in the way can you get the victim out when that's in the way no so we've lit we lift them we've freed

them um other interesting thing when people have uh Crush injuries um when you release that Crush injury it's very painful so even though they're quiet like I said it's a lot of pain they're quiet then you release that blood into that system then it get it gets loud again so you don't want to be stuck having this open and all of a sudden not being able to get the victim out right away um third door technique and um this is a little bit longer but we're cutting the post and this doesn't have a rear door but we can make a rear door out of it

and if you notice here on the top I have basically the total time to do each of these operations these are average times I've been to things that are shorter and things that are longer um I think the shortest uh extrication I've been to is probably a half hour and the longest was probably two without a fatality with a live person who's two to three hours I'm sorry yes um uh we did a Land Rover the other day and a Land Rover so uh uh I'm not going to get into too much technology but uh Land Rovers have something called ultra high strength steel and that steel gets stronger when you compress it so if it

gets into an accident gets really strong but the only way to open something is to um if you don't compress it and you try and stress it it cracks and so using spreaders to open up the door the door was just flaking off in pieces we couldn't get a standard door opening on that Land Rover and you can't cut it with a reciprocating swap because ultra high strength steel um remove removal uh again something if you've cut the B post you've cut the a-post already you might as well just cut the last post to see post and just get the thing off get yourself some access

so once that roof is off right makes it really easy for Access and actually on the more serious injuries um you'll probably have someone working the C collar or working the spine someone else working the legs someone else working the abdomen area because Crush injuries um so you want to try and get people in from all different angles and this kind of helps out there and a victim removal uh so I'm not an EMT and uh I'm a non-emt for a good reason I can't stand blood now I've been to hundreds hundreds of accidents with probably the worst things you've ever seen but I can do that for 20 minutes to get that guy out

I can't stand I can't be in an ambulance listen to him scream 45 minutes on the way to the hospital so I kind of I'll do the packaging but that's about as far as I go all right so the challenges we talked about this uh right the ultra high strength steel cars have crumple zones in the front and back the cabins are actually really really well built they have these ultra high strength steel I'm usually on the uh on the a post here the B post the rocker panel which is the lower end and the roof panel right um I've been to car accidents where the uh was a Honda Pilot had a driver a

mother and and two kids in it and two kids were in um car seats they hit uh they over corrected they were swerving they over corrected they hit a rock wall on one side and then enrolled into a rock wall on the other side so the whole front of the car was taken off on the pilot the whole rear trunk area of the car was taken off on the pilot um unfortunately the mother did not have her seat belt on and she was thrown from the car she left but um the two kids car landed upside down two kids in their in their car seats not a scratch on them but the bad side of this is this ultra

high strength steel can't be cut through and if you know we try and use Cutters or spreaders right the spreaders will fracture the the metal or and the Cutters compress the metal but the Cutters will fail before the metal does so we have to kind of we're kind of getting to a point now where actually cutting the car open is a hit or miss operation and this is kind of where I started thinking about that software side of things so this came from an idea that we have in the fire service if anybody go to when you take an elevator right they have the little key on the bottom it says fire service mode and that's

basically in high rises when there's a fire you want to have all the elevators recalled to a safe spot and then you want to have a second mode where the firefighters can use the elevator for transporting victims equipment so this is where this came from it's like well why can't we have something similar for cars what can we save by doing this at the extrication level so let's talk about stabilization at stabilization we can actually turn off the engine and all the accessories right um which actually happens today maybe we can engage the parking brake automatically right it's all software driven it's all drive by command why not um something fuel flow is actually uh on

most cars today that happens um the high voltage systems um some EVS will disconnect uh and I'll I also teach the class on EV fires on an EV your floorboard is that that's that's the actual battery platform right so think about this everything that's that's uh like 700 volts that's deadly that's DC um when you get into a car accident all the things that are run off that off that 700 volts the transmission um the braking system everything automatically disconnects but the platform itself is still a live energy source so think about that so um anyway uh one of the other things we could do is maybe deflate the tires to Flame the tires even if we can't uh

if we're on a steep incline and the parking brake doesn't hold the Flaming tires at least keep it from moving uh very fast what about access what can we do for Access well you saw with the airbag video happens a lot and we are very careful now when we enter a vehicle we don't enter from the sides we try and enter from the rear the rear seat and deal with the patient on the front seat all because of that airbag so maybe if we could disable the airbags after a crash not before that might help maybe unlocking all the doors for us gives us a chance of opening up another door even if the driver's side door is crushed in

I can go through the passenger side door without having to break a window and try and reach in again breaking the window all takes time um maybe I rolled down all the windows if I need access if that if I had if I had a way of just rolling down the windows right maybe I can get access put that c collar on right away and finally maybe uh you know you have the rear door can unlatch now right in the hatchbacks and then on the SUVs maybe if we had something like that or maybe with the electronic doors which have to have a manual handle override exposing those handles right during a crash so that way someone who's in a

panic can grab for something and actually feel something uh and also if I go up here right um I'm kind of estimating some time savings from all these things again from a minimum to a maximum here's for access from three minutes to 20 minutes and uh for egress so we have that Dash roll right and the dash roll only works if we're free but so we always are Plan B is you know take the headrest off try and recline the seat right plan C is actually spread the seat from the front and move the seat back all software control because it's all electronic these days why can't we just do this right once we're ready to to access the

victim and take them out why can't this just happen to be a software command so in the Fire Control well we'll talk about that separately but um you know if an EVS I'll explain a little bit about EVS right the platform that battery platform is the bottom of the car is the undercarriage um it's really reinforced with uh usually 3 8 inch aluminum and has an airspace and then another sheet of 3 8 inch aluminum to for crash protection and debris protection underneath but they need to save money so what do you think the thinnest part of that platform is it's the top it's the Shroud between the top of the battery and the floorboards

of your cat passenger cabin so if an EB catches fire which way do you think the fire is going to go up into the passenger cabin so when we get into a we get to a car fire first thing we do with a hose line is actually put it on what they call fog or spray and we spray the passenger cat we spray the cabin right away because out of fire We're Not Gonna we don't sometimes we don't even see the victim in there because there's so much smoke and so much fire so we will go into the cabin with a hose line and spray right away and see what we have and see whether we

need to pull someone out or we just fight it normally well why not have that sprinkler system built it right well water takes weight and this design takes money so um prior retardant in the engine compartment I've seen that in a few cars uh they're usually little capsules that when they burn they create dry chem um work fairly well but not always and again the batter EV battery platform is uh just an issue that's um increasing so I don't see any any uh immediate ways we can deal with that all right so I've talked a lot about extrication and all the operations we do and some of the software that we use well what's the

real time savings so again if we're talking about an execution taking 15 minutes meaning you go in you pop the door the door's open you can you just see how Victory take them out um and the to me the worst case being two hours that's that's probably you know something a little more complicated what kind of savings can we get well we get anywhere from five minutes to to an hour right five minutes is a lot right and even if all those things I said that we could do we can't do say we can only do a quarter of them if we can only do a quarter of those things we'll say maybe 15 minutes

that 50 minutes I I mean I've seen people die right there and that 15 minutes could have maybe been the been the uh chance between them living or dying so I'm really passionate about this so how does this work I think during a crash um during a crash right it would automatically go into stabilized mode anything that when a crash sensor goes off anything that can be used to stabilize the vehicle that software should do right it's only software nothing fancy about this second thing if I show up on the scene and I have my universal remote right the fire service key right that we have an elevator something similar maybe I can say hey

press a button there now if the crash sensor hasn't gone off in a car it should do nothing right I don't want to be able to use this to disable a car that's already running or in good shape but if the crash sensor did go off I'd do the same thing that the automatic crash sensor would maybe I press another button and it says Hey disable the airbags because I want access unlock the doors if I can't open the windows open all the windows right how many times how many people have Hondas so on a Honda you if you hold the lock button down what happens it rolls down the windows four inches right just to let the heat out of the

car it's all software based nothing big here and maybe for egress I automatically raise the steering column as my number one thing and maybe if I need more room maybe I can extend the seats and maybe I can recline the seats all these things save time because I don't have to think about how to do them you know it's it uh especially with electronic seats you're not going to be doing it manually you're going to need a tool like a spreader or a cutter to get that and that takes time and of course if uh if you have the capability of sending signal status signals back you'd want to do that in fact if this is kind of the way I

envisioned it you have a fob and again real easy for firefighters right so yeah so you know if I click stabilize it's going to do all those things maybe send back some indicators right egress and then of course if I do fire control fire suppression again all cool stuff but is it really gonna work so anybody uh know who this is I probably don't because I'm here to tell you but wait there's more because he comes from a fire safety background and I actually come from a vehicle Manufacturing this is me I'm Pat Seymour but uh I'm a cat DeLorean is my maid's name my father is John DeLorean I kind of would hold um but I spent the past 20 years working

at Bank of America cyber security so um Don and I work together some time ago and when he heard I retired from the bank um after 20 years and I wanted to focus on mentorship without going into the long story of how I ended up building a car because of it um basically I started I I wanted to create an automotive engineering program and and ended up with a car company fun story but uh John um heard me talking about death Napalm and uh my my thoughts on EV fires and my father was huge on safety he actually testified before Congress and is the reason why seat belts are mandatory in your car today you're welcome

um so my whole life I heard about vehicle safety and growing up like how how we deal with it so when he approached me with this this program I got very very very excited because it can it can really save someone just like he said a few minutes can make all the difference in somebody's life so um so John comes from a background of Safety First and and the rescue operations and what that means is he's going to do it in order he was taught but when he asked me to take a look at it and bring it to some of my vehicle people we started talking about some of the things that can be front loaded how

we can actually do this leveraging some of the systems that are already there so um when you have the expertise the First Responders they obviously have to follow things in a certain order because you have to make sure you stabilize the vehicle so the fire car doesn't go rolling down the hill things like that um but when you talk about so let's see um that is front loaded he switched the slides on me so that's right kind of a little not I'm doing it backwards again so um when we have the crotch actually happen in the order that John went you had to start with deflating the tires and all the things that actually stabilize the vehicle and then you move

to um to some of the things like rolling down the windows and unlocking the doors so what happens if we actually can can take care of all of this stuff in the beginning when it happens because what what difference does it make if I got in a car crash and I unlocked the doors and I had to talk to John about this so if again a car crash and I unlock the doors not going to make any difference to the passenger inside but if I get in a car crash and I say roll down the windows it could because you could be in a situation where say you're in a water landing and you uh you don't

want those windows open so we had to talk about some of the things that would actually be more uh useful to front load and um some of the things that we actually talked about so let's see many of the things that we're actually talking about now are pretty much standard on cars and they have been for some time for instance the DMC 12 back in the 80s had automatic unlocking doors because my father again obsessed with safety and this is something that he saw the potential for he then develop the seat belt he fought for it like adamantly and then so when he retired from General Motors which was 50 years ago I think like

today isn't it yeah something like that uh interestingly enough um he uh he he was fighting with them to um to implement seat belts and airbags and things like that and and it's obviously it's very expensive when we get into why some of these things can't be implemented or won't be by Automotive manufacturers because of the minor cost but um he got he got a little upset and uh when he retired he was hired by Allstate which is actually where the car came from interesting tidbit for all of you in here the DMC 12 was originally designed to the safety vehicle designed for Allstate to come up with something that um was a lot was a lot safer so uh he

then got his uh Revenge I suppose by uh going and testifying before Congress for all state that seat belts will save lives and now they're mandatory on all the cars today so that's where that comes from but um some of the things too that we have that are that are listed here they're going to require changes to the actual structure of the way that things work for instance installing the fire suppression system but others already exist so if I'm not rolling down the windows in your car um if you might have a key fob already that you push a button you hold it it rolls down your windows so it can roll up your windows so that's a feature

that's already got software that commands that are in there when we're talking about things like that we can actually make the changes um without what's called a 50 000 mile road test so in it when you make changes to anything on a car if the car's already been what's called homologated and and um basically safety rated and approved for driving on the road if you change anything at all you have to go through what's called a 50 000 mile road test and this is a test where you drive the car for 50 000 miles and um and and you test out certain situations and you're going to have to meet each situation you know having the car do certain things

going uphill and things like that and what's crazy about this 50 000 mile road test is the way Malcolm Brooklyn who who I'm working with now I'll put it he said you can go 49 999 miles and on that last mile you hit a Scrolls all over you gotta start over so when we're talking about making even minor changes to automobiles it's a it's a huge cost to the to the auto manufacturer um not only because of um the you know the cost of the test itself but any little change uh will cost a lot of money and we'll get into that in a second so when you're talking about something like automatic engagement of the parking brake this

could be something that I couldn't get a clear answer on this one from my team yet but automatic engagement of the parking brake is something that could have impacted you as a driver driving down the road parking brake goes off and you're in trouble so this would be something that they would want to retest because they want to make sure it doesn't happen when you're randomly driving down the road and then something like self-deflating tires this ring actually require a full crash test safe crash test engagement because again you don't want these tires deflating at the wrong time you have some interesting options when it comes to tires that can run flat and and things like that but this would be

something that would more require a recertification of a full crash test um and then I actually asked about this one and this one's really interesting so disabling the airbag triggers is called require vendor support and we all love vendor support so this would actually require us to go to the airbag vendors and have the regulations changed because anything that deals with airbags is is regulation and it seems like such a simple thing because the airbags are disabled the problem with that that crash that we saw the airbags are disabled because nobody's in the passenger seat and then the car gets into an accident the airbag is still active so you put the pressure on the

seat and suddenly they are bag inflates so it would be just as simple as having it not re-engage after you got into the accident but we don't we don't have that and and then again it's something that it sounds really really easy to us just change the code and it doesn't engage after an accident but there's all of this testing and cost that goes into it and it's not just the cost of the code chain um some of the things that we talked about too like um the automatic reclining of the driver's seat and the raising of the steering column so John was talking a lot about checkout sorry you're going by checkout I was talking a lot about how

um you're really focused on the passenger stabilization their neck their back obviously you can't do these things unless you one know the position of the passenger because if you raise or lower the steering column like onto their lap in the situation we were watching the video for that's not really going to work you're going to trap him more if you lower it into his lap so you want to make sure that the firemen actually have control over what happens here because they need to stabilize their the victim first so this is where we start introducing things that have to be done manually as opposed to um automatically you want some control over it um and then here so

I asked my dad my dad had me write a book once for him called the GM repair manual and in this book he talks about that when they started Saturn anybody in here remember Saturn yeah that's okay so so back in the day instead of fixing what was wrong with their existing product lines General Motors said let's go ahead and start a whole new car company how many people in here didn't know Saturn was GM even today yep so that's not uncommon they very very specifically wanted you to not know that instead of investing into the quality control of their their other cars so he put in this book he said if they would invest 25 cents more for the

interior on the work truck it would last the lifetime of the truck and increased customer satisfaction as it was we were buying work trucks and after two three years of study use the truck was fine but the interior was trash so I said why wouldn't they just put 25 cents more is 25 cents times millions of cars is a lot of money and that stuck with me forever so every time I think about all the things that John's asking about I think 25 cents times millions of cars is a lot of money now you and I may think logically and go why not just raise the cost of the car 25s uh it doesn't make sense to me but you

know hey capitalism so so um that's why something like this I don't think he's going to get made by anybody until they actually mandate it now this is something that that our car company is actually working on I'm not a traditional car company we're going to fund public school education and we're going to actually invest in safety um research like this so that we can prove that these things work but when we when we talk about these again it's really important to remember it's an uphill battle capitalism cost all of these things um so oh public speaking it's just wonderful um one of the interesting things we can do for a fire control system though is

to think about alternative methods that we can offer people like what what if you just sold a Tesla with a fire extinguisher that could put out the fire inside well you know an accessible handle would be nice but let's just go ahead and say something is simple and and so we need to also think about some of the easier ways that we can solve some of these problems um so we go into the the computer the software controlled issue and we talk about some of the issues oh five minutes that come up um so huh I lost my train of thought because he gave me the five minute warning um possible kill switch so a kill switch

actually would be really great solution so anybody in here if you like your car install a kill switch it is it isn't the most amazing antisep device so good I lost my keys once and couldn't get back into my car because the locksmith couldn't get in because I had the kill switch engage so um you could actually have fire service mode engage a kill switch which would do all of the things like turning off the the voltage and things like this and um and be able to actually secure the car so that we can do all of the steps that we need to do um and then we talk about so and this is probably your slide too right yeah

so yeah we talked about can bus being able to um deal with that person going through the uh changing uh pulling sensors well why couldn't we just thinking of us right and be encrypted by either PPM chip or maybe even five like them on the car and again during crash mode that encryption uh falls back to uncertain that way you can have universal access that's kind of the whole point here is that it doesn't take much to have decrypt the pronunciation no but but the issue with encrypted Communications is you would then be forced to go to your dealer to get your car serviced so the challenges remain you know when it's it's it's the balance

we always play security versus usability right and so that's the challenge we have but I think together we'll be able to actually make this work really cool so uh no I think I just gave them

I'm using in our organizations can we do something similar for the automotive industry or the resolution then I kind of I stole from that a little bit but uh instead of you know identified protection defend maybe we have uh um rescue it's one of the columns and what are we doing today well perhaps we have these things that are already in the cars and we just add this and that's kind of where I want to go I want to again a lot of this would be software based it's not it's not technical again the legal political and other aspects it becomes an issue so I will open it up for Q a I mean there was a

lot of information and probably not technical but you in the front just like we were talking about you might make a modification to your car for your business Etc so do people choose to after mod on canvas software to enable this is there is a difference between you modifying your car and me modifying your car

I think one of the things we talked about early on was and this we used to steal a cup right can a fire and the whole idea is that it's a degradation only type of aspect meaning that once you engage fire service smoke that car is a right open so that's saying if someone actually were able to pull the system and make it go into fire service mode it's done right so there's no motivation for someone yeah you'll kill switch the car it's not going to move yes

for 20 seconds then maybe you could say I actually kissed after these two things yeah artificial intelligence and combined trigger yeah or even like uh it's not on head by Sports end of 20 seconds

I mean odd star has some pretty cool things like even if you have a concert if you guys were crash I still get notified the kids it's just a matter of what what do afterwards and how you do it yes these systems will work or with it so considerably so I showed early on that we'd open up the hood to cut the level system and I said that in these days 12 volt systems really don't cause fires and don't cause issues so I would say if you do the high voltage disconnect for EVS and hybrids smart and how many of these systems still work we've had people we've had Cars one off fly off the embankments

into trees with the headlights still on but even after we cut the 12 volt system a lot of these systems have two or three batteries there thank you