Thomas Keenan: Fakes Aren't Funny: Urgent Business Issues in Image Fakery

hello everybody it's 105. uh i'm tom keenan i'm going to start this right on time it is being recorded so don't worry if uh people come late you'll be able to watch the recording and uh i am a professor in the school of architecture planning and landscape at the university of calgary what that really means is i'm a computer geek uh wrote my first computer program back in 1965 so i've been around this space for a while i'm going to go to my powerpoint and take it from the first slide to the next slide and then ask you if you're seeing it so could somebody just speak up and see tell me what you see on your

screen wonderful okay so you saw my so why the lab coat i will go back and show you my my presentation again now that you've seen that i'm in a lab coat and the reason i'm in a lab coat is to tell you a story okay so the story is i'm not a doctor watch i have a doctorate from columbia university but it's not in medicine but i do have this little artifact i was cleaning out my basement a few years ago and i found this and that's a picture of me and i'm a lot younger on there and it claims that i'm a physician at the calgary general hospital uh some of you might remember that

hospital that doesn't exist anymore and i had no idea why i had this card and i thought and thought and thought and then i realized i sometimes act in movies and i played a doctor dr joseph bullock in a movie that was shot at the calgary general hospital and so what happened well you know they gave me a uh an id card because the assistant director said that doctor over there he doesn't have an id card on uh it doesn't look right so they march me down to human resources and maybe that card why do i tell you this to give you the big moral of this talk which is you're all very technically skilled you wouldn't be at

this conference if you were you could probably get away with stuff so to put this in very concrete terms soon after the first coveted lockdowns happened i was in a grocery store and it said first responders and medical personnel please come to the front of the line and i thought you know i have a lab coat i mean most professors have a lab coat and hmm you know i have this id card but just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it so that's really the moral of this talk i'm going to teach you some things some may be obvious some in obvious but the point is that you really shouldn't do bad things

computer security has been very good to me it's been a kind of lifelong career and to give you the context i came to alberta you'll have to guess which one of those um intrepid and wounded bikers is me hint i had a very long beard i came here in 1972 and i took a job at the university of calgary in the computer services department because i was the new kid on the block they gave me the worst problem that they had to solve and it was called the case of the missionary on master so again we used to have printouts that look like this and some person or person's unknown was posting the list of the password

file all over the university every night and it was a real annoyance because everybody had to change their password every day so i being the junior guy was told figure this out and i tried to read up on computer security and there wasn't much to read in 1972 so i finally found the bug it wasn't so much a bug the computer big mainframe computer was failing to clear out its memory between users and this rather smart student had figured out that in memory word 112 after the beginning of your memory the passwords were stored and so he was able to get them that way well this led to me actually teaching what i argue is canada's first

course in computer control and security it was in edmonton it was on october 14 1977 and what i can tell you is uh there wasn't much to teach i think the course was 65 and an included lunch it only lasted one day because back then computer security was simple we didn't have the internet there were passwords there was lock up your doors and stuff like that but it was pretty simple now you all know it's so complicated that we have conferences like this one and defcon black hat rsa hackers on planet earth i've spoken in all of those and this is my first time at b-side so i'm really delighted to be doing it and i want to start out by explaining

that we all fake images so i was doing a ctv interview out of ottawa that's the real window that actually overlooks the parliament building so if you're a guest on the ctv news channel and you're in ottawa that's what you're going to see you look out the window and it's a rainy day in ottawa and uh and that's real most of the time however television isn't real like that so as an example i was doing a hit from new york city and this i had the cameraman take a picture to show how it's really done so i don't want to spoil any illusions you have but the reporters don't stand outside in front of the empire state building

it's projected on the screen in back of us and you can see the shot and the reason i show you this shot is also because faces are so interesting and i have my students do an exercise where they work on facial analysis programs and they try to figure out things about you they're not actually writing the programs they're just looking to see what's out there and i picked one that's called betafaceapi.com and analyze my own face and look it says i'm 53 years old thank you very much that's very generous uh i'm not attractive i do have bags under my eyes i am bald and so on so to show you this our faces even when

we walk on the street now are definitely under scrutiny in many parts of the world china london england you're probably on video camera and a lot can be deduced from our face so fakery actually goes back a long long way this is a real photo it's me out about to do delirium dive i've been out snowboarding this week already and uh that's a real photo but this is a clip from 1995 from the wildlife which is a banff newspaper the picture on the left was taken from the cover of brochure the on the right was the next one obtained from the photographer and you can see that it's been altered it's the same guy doing the same run

with a big smile on his face but there are subtle differences in the background this actually was created in 1995 and it could have been done with photoshop photoshop i looked it up actually goes back to 1987. so we really put the tools to do image fakery in the hands of the general public i once asked the photo editor of the new york times could you detect a fake image and he said i used to see the razor blade marks when the negatives were cut together in the enlarger once it's been through a computer there's no way to detect a fake and i just listed some of the tools there photoshop indesign and so on

and anybody pretty much can use those tools it's also important to know that photos are becoming pretty important entire platforms like instagram and pinterest are image oriented there's also a statistic that if you're on twitter if you tweet with an image the likelihood that it will be retweeted is 34 and at doctor future is my twitter handle and i almost always find an image to go with my tweets now here's a counter factual photograph it's of the yalta summit at the end of world war ii and there's winston churchill and franco down to roosevelt but also groucho marx and sylvester stallone so obviously this is an example of somebody having fun with images here's another one people said this

should be the national geographic photo of the year well it should be except it's a total fake it was composited from two different images sometimes bakery is really simple you can just pick your camera angle so these look like a very very brave couple uh very much in love hanging out over the rock until you see the contacts and she's only about one one and a half meters off the ground there so the reality is sometimes faking can be as simple as choosing your camera angle this is a spot in brazil that is so famous that people actually line up for the chance to take that uh impactful photograph there so these are kind of fun uses of image bakery and

you know nobody's really going to give you a hard time for that but photos can also be used to tell lies and when i first started this research i was trying to find a way to explain it to the public and make you care about it and then as a gift from heaven the whole uh photoshop your daughter or son into college scandal broke so there we have a famous actress and her infamous now daughters and what she did is she went went out there and faked images of them or had someone fake images of them um doing different sports tennis rowing and so on and i'm a pretty good internet detective but they did

such a good job of scouring these photos off the internet i had to look for substitutes so to give you an idea yeah perhaps one daughter number one was a was a shot put artist perhaps this one was actually uh muhammad ali you know in the ring so these are just you know in good fun but as you know someone did actually go to jail for uh the fraud that was associated with this photos can also be used in anger so this is a true cover of teen vogue emma gonzalez she was one of the girls involved in a high school shooting as a victim in the united states and an anti um an opposing political group that wants to

defend their guns their second amendment rights has photoshopped in the u.s constitution the bill of rights and has emma tearing that up so fakery can certainly be used in anger it can also be used in pretty nasty ways so we just had a whole season of politics and here are two examples lindsey graham's opponent jamie harrison who's an african-american man in this ad lindsey graham's campaign darkened his face and they said oh well that's just you know an artifact of the program we use well no he was deliberately darkened and in another race also in georgia john rosa who happens to be jewish had his nose lengthened electronically and again an attempt to subtly suggest

that he was a someone that you shouldn't vote for let's put it that way so bakery can be used for nasty purposes we are becoming photo and video skeptics so toshiba did a wonderful campaign in which they flew a chair up into space and everybody said ah that's a fake so they actually had to release a video containing the footage when they did it they actually used a hot air balloon and levitated this chair right up to the edge of the atmosphere and took photos of it somehow so we are skeptical now this is a uh a deep fake video and i am pretty sure that you're not going to be able to hear the sound

we did some technical uh wizardry this morning but we were not wizard wizards enough to make the sound come true so i'm going to because i've seen this video a few times i will do the voice of barack obama to the best of my ability and i think you'll get the point and of course uh if you want to find this it's quite easy to find on the internet so mr obama or at least his voice starts out president trump is a totally complete now i would never say these things at least not in a public address but someone else would someone like jordan peele this is a dangerous time moving forward we need to be more

vigilant with what we trust from the internet it's time to rely on trusted news sources so the man on the left who recognizes barack obama the man on the right jordan kiel this is actually not the technically most perfect deep fake but it's certainly a good one so basically the point of this is that we've taken the ability to fake a still image and moved it over into video and so this is basically it's available uh quite freely on the internet i have another one here which again i'm just going to play for you and i'll tell you basically what it is it's various world leaders and they are singing along to the uh beatles song imagine so he trump just

said imagine there's no heaven and putin said it's easy if you try now the voices are actually the beatles and the main reason to look at this is to see that they've actually done a pretty credible job of getting world leaders and making them sync up to this so i won't because i don't think you can hear the sound i won't subject you to the whole one except to point out that these this is actually a kind of low-hanging fruit and the reason i say that is that to do these things technologically you need lots of images and the people that you see on here justin trudeau obama putin are people who are in the

public eye and are being photographed all the time so if you want to take somebody who you know lived a long time ago or somebody who was never photographed it would be a lot harder because you wouldn't have expressions of their face this is an example um and i love the reporting of donio sullivan he's a cnn reporter who covers technology and basically what he is showing here is the use of a very simple video doctoring technique and the first one is is a video of nancy pelosi speaker of the house of representatives and she says and then he had a press conference and she goes on like that for a bit and she's talking normally i mean she's

she's on in years but the right hand side is slow down the uh press conference make her sound like she's had a stroke or maybe he's drunk or something like that so this was a really good example and rudy giuliani actually was sending out this video so video fakery has been weaponized for political purposes i'm actually surprised to tell you the truth when i proposed this session i said well there'll be a lot of it happening in the u.s election and i saw some but i didn't see a lot i still stuck with these examples because i think they're nice and clear and the white house actually did share a fake video that supported cnn's jim acosta being banned from the

white house press room and i won't play this for you except to say that by doing some video manipulation they were able to make it look like he actually grabbed the microphone away from a white house intern at a press conference and this was sent out by the official white house account so you know it's it shows how video fakery can get out there people ask me where this is all going and i want to show you my friend sophia she's a lovely lady carries on a great conversation this is at the rs8 conference in asia pacific japan she she did the closing keynote speech and she is of course an uh an automaton if you will

she has a face made of frubber which is a special kind of rubber it's very expressive but we've left enough of her skull off so you can see that she has uh computers for brains and sophia is quite a good character i know a new york times reporter was sent to interview sophia bina who's another uh automaton bena48 and bina looked into the reporter's eyes and said sarah what's it like to be a reporter at the new york times and sarah said for just a moment i actually thought she was a real person here's why this is a critical business issue we still use paper for lots of things i'm going to show you a covet

example in a minute sometimes we scan it but there's still a paper sage businesses still often use checks particularly small businesses they they have smaller fees they can keep their own records sometimes we do go paperless we scan things but then things are even easier to tamper with most people are honest but some aren't and front line staff are not trained to detect fakes so here is proof that this is an up-to-date presentation even though i've given it a few times before there is actually a ring that has been arrested at the paris airport selling counterfeit covered clearance certificates so they had the ability to bang these things out they had the name of a laboratory in

paris showing you had a covert test and you were negative they were being sold at the airport to travelers for 150 to 300 euros and uh this presentation will be available if you want to read the whole story the link from the bbc is down there so that's a worry when people can go out there and fake documents like that here's something that used to work please don't try this it used to be the case that's an air canna maybe air cannabis air canada you'll you'll have to guess it's a real boarding pass uh i did a little bit of editing on it i put the code bbrg in that spot if we were in real life in

a live audience i'd ask who knows what that means since we're not i'll just say it means beverage and if you had that i'll tell you why i say had that you would get a free drink i think you should show that to the flight attendant who would promptly hand you a scotch or a bottle of wine or whatever your choice was because that was their code for people who bought the comfort fair now i have a friend who's vice president of air canada i said look i would never do this it's fraud but would it work and he laughed and he said ha it would have worked it would have worked until three months

ago we were having and he hasn't liked this repeated a lot of problem with shrinkage on the plane now you know we're not talking about the genital shrinkage or anything what we're talking about here is money not getting collected properly so maybe somebody says oh i'd like a drink but i only have a hundred dollar bill and the flight attendant goes i don't want to make change things like that maybe they take it in their pocket so what has this got to do with this boarding pass it turns out that people were doing this so much that they they don't take cash on the plane anymore and to take credit cards they have to give them all tablets and guess what the

tablet knows whether you're entitled to a drink or not so this little trick does not work anymore so that's one of the reasons i'm willing to share it with you boarding passes used to be special this is an old u.s airboarding pass airlines not even around anymore you'd have a hard time faking this one because you have to get special stock and there's a stock control number and all that now here's something you could do and this goes back to my just because you can do it doesn't mean you should let's say you lose a receipt and you have to turn in the expense account well let's get more concrete i gave a talk to a bunch of judges at the jasper

park lodge and i bought a guy a beer and it's not cheap up there it came to 22. i found this receipt and i went i wonder if i should build the judges for that and i checked their policy and that said we do not pay for alcohol so i went okay you're not going to pay for this receipt i might as well have some fun with it so i went to that site express expense just in case you didn't catch it and i faked it up now it's watermarked because i didn't pay for a membership but suddenly those two beers became a ham sandwich for 2095 with the gst added on the host the server was named steven

there's even a piece of my visa number in there and a uh a barcode so guess what um it's pretty credible don't do this i told you how to do it now don't do it uh here's one that was fun lowe's home improvement warehouse was the victim of a scam which was a double scan people were coming in they were seeing on the internet for mother's day last year get a free 50 off coupon if you spend 75 dollars at lowe's of course lots of people downloaded them and they were totally bogus the reason i call it a double scan is guess what to get that coupon you had to give some information i think maybe even your

credit card number so they were scammers collecting information and the coupons were no good photos play a big role in things like insurance claims so insurance companies are lazy enough now that they say oh you have a flood in your basement well send us some photos and guess what there are people who go out there and send photos of someone else's uh basement now the insurance companies look for this and in fact one guy was undone by his own photos he filed a claim in june 2018 saying his truck was damaged when he collided with a wooden post and it turned out by simple investigation of the social media the accident the damage happened well before that so

he was caught in a lie so don't lie i'm going to talk about four ways to fight bakery one of them is technical analytics i have some friends who are doing great work in looking at videos and seeing things like is the breath pattern consistent you know in that obama one if you go back he doesn't breathe in the right place the neck actually has a pulse which is sometimes visible it's the carotid artery pulse and you can check that second wave provenance analysis where did you get this thing from so again if something comes from cnn.com you assume that it's from them if it's been through a whole bunch of retweets and stuff it could be doctored

you can crowdsource reliability you can ask people do you think this is fake or not and then there's a fairly sophisticated approach of actually registering videos and images and you can even use the blockchain so the first one technical analysis and just about anybody knows how to do this you can just go into you know windows explorer and you can look at videos my purpose with this one i thought i could capture the obama deep fake with closed caption and i did turn on the captioning and then i looked and i realized the two files with or without captioning were identical in length identical and video running time so that i use that to answer my question

but you know if a file has been tampered with the checks the size and length might have changed we can move up to checksums i bet you all know what it is but for anybody who doesn't it's an extra bit of information like an extra digit to compensate for errors so communication errors people writing things down errors let's say you want to send 3892 you 3 8 9 2 4 4 is the check sum of the digits you add them and keep adding until you get down to a single digit and you've agreed beforehand that the last digit will be the checksum so i'm sure all of you know that i did come up with

some ideas around checksums and i decided i wanted to know how hollywood does it okay first of all there's problems with checksums it's possible to make true mistakes and they offset each other so more than one video could have the same checksum also if you're really smart and know the algorithm you may be able to invisibly invisibly defeat it anybody who's heard the word steganography would know what i'm talking about there i went to see what hollywood does because somebody told me oh they must have really fancy checksums well they actually don't so let's say hollywood's shooting a movie in calgary every day the digital footage is sent back to the producers and they want to make sure it hasn't

been corrupted somehow they use sha1 and md5 which are very common checksum algorithms available to everybody provenance analysis i show you this because in another life i i was a reporter in washington dc i covered the state department and rather than all of us putting our microphones up in front of the secretary of state we have what this is called a breakout box and we just plugged into that so there was a pool feed of the signal and they still use these today more high-tech looking the point is that if you got it off the breakout box hey you knew that it was real you know that this was actually coming from an authoritative source

there's also a kind of out-of-band validation so at one point this was justin bieber's page on social media i am not responsible for the location of the blue check on justin except to point out that that blue tech is the point of this slide it means that he has been validated on this site through an out-of-band process meaning not on the site itself but maybe his agent or his lawyer proved that this is really his bona fide real justin bieber site so that's another way to check things you can go outside of the normal channel and check it that way here's my story about crowdsourcing there's a wonderful professor very smart guy but also very mischievous

guy he encourages his students to come up with fake stories and put them on the internet and back them up with things like old newspaper clippings and things like that the most famous one was that there were as late as i think the 1920s still pirates in chesapeake bay off the coast of maryland and he had stories about that that his students totally faked and that was so credible it got picked up by the newspaper usa today well his most recent one involves some girls supposedly discovering a chest that belonged to her grandfather and she opened it up and it showed that he was a serial killer i think there even were you know trophies from the victims and

it was a total fake and it was debunked in 22 minutes by the crowd on reddit so it's getting a lot harder to think stuff then there's a system i came up with i was going to patent it or try to market it but great ideas happen to many people as a company in california with a similar idea you take a trusted source so going back to the jim acosta video that source sends the original video and computes the checksum you put those on a blockchain and won't go into details of blockchain except to say they're hard to tamper with and if you do it's evident and then you can't if another version of that

video shows up because it's later on the blockchain it actually shows up it's easy to determine tampering and you can find out which is the earliest version maybe not the true one but certainly the earliest version i took this to the head of the oxford internet very wise guy and he said that'll never work you have too much work yet how you're going to do this you're going to make your own blockchain somebody will take over your blockchain and i said uh yeah and i went home and thought about it looked into the technical specs for bitcoin and guess what there's a comment field in there that's not used so all you need to do to implement this

is put your little video checksum in that comment field you would have to give one satoshi which is like a millionth of a bitcoin in value but i know a blue jeans manufacturer that actually uses the bitcoin to secure the authenticity of their genes so it's not a big deal to give a tiny amount of money in bitcoin for that so i hope today i've convinced you of a few things fakery is fun i certainly enjoy reading about it and researching it it's not fun if you're the victim like our air canna if you're you're all smart enough to do this bakery or alter a photo or tweak a boarding pass just because you can do it doesn't mean

you should do it i always close my talk with the very same image here it predates the internet free to good home beautiful six-month-old male kitten orange caramel tabby playful affectionate or handsome 32 year old husband personable funny good job doesn't like cats says he goes or the cat goes call jennifer here's your phone number come see both and decide what you'd like uh this predates the internet i don't even remember where i got it from every time i'm in a new area code i sometimes get bored and try that number to see if jennifer is there but i've never found jennifer the point of this and why i would close on this is for you

to remember you're making choices every time you use a piece of technology you buy a nest thermostat i know how to hack it i have to have physical hands-on access to it but i can redo its firmware and i can control the heat in your house you buy a jeep grand cherokee it's actually a fairly hackable car just read or go to youtube and look at some of the old defcon videos so we're always taking some kinds of risks and when you trust an image you're taking a risk and it really comes down to how much are you trusting it why are you trusting it and do you want to trust it so these are my coordinates that is

my book it's available on amazon it's even available at walmart.com of all places and uh with that happy note i'm going to stop sharing which was any luck will bring me back show you my face in my lab coat and um i am now going to have a look at the chat and you hear me loud and clear that's good uh everything is good that's good for youtube you may want to open a new tab yeah i could have done that that's true um i'll let you guys hunt down those videos i'm a professor that's your homework assignment heard of some folks modifying the qr code on their taking yes that can be done most lounges

have attendance there and if you're too scruffy they might notice but i can tell you that there's an air canada lounge in regina that's totally unattended um the other thing though is and brings us to a very topical thing boris johnson i think it was or no scomo scott morrison in australia posted something you should never do he posted his boarding pass which contains a lot of information in it so some hacker and i'm using the good white hat hacker there because he didn't do anything bad with it he got the prime minister of australia's passport number out of his boarding pass um isn't fraud a crime yes fraud is a crime i told you that i did not put bvrg on my

boarding pass and tried to get a few drink it's um misdemeanors actually it's an interesting word uh felony misdemeanor rit u.s concepts there are different degrees of seriousness and uh uh rob millman not in canada thanks to the crtc um that's a little cryptic if you want to put another line in there uh maybe i can address that uh oh you mean yes okay i do know what you're talking about the system that allowed the g packing and you're pretty good was actually never made available in canada okay so i think it involved onstar or something like that so uh i you're far too technical rob millman i know exactly what you're talking about and uh i'll give you an answer to that

but you go to the u.s and you rent a jeep grand cherokee and while we're on the subject of rental cars um there is a a rather famous man who started a computer security company and i think you know what i'm talking about i don't actually want to mention his name and when i was at defcon two years ago he invited me to go meet him he said i have this great new idea it involves the blockchain blah blah blah blah blah i want you to meet me at 2 30. and it being defcon i don't know how many of you have been to defcon uh 2 30 could be am or pm it turned out

it was am and he also said um i want you to meet me at this location and i checked it out and it was an off the strip strip club so a rather disreputable place okay and so this great name in computer viruses was supposedly going to meet us there i met his pr person she bought us some drinks he never did show up but the reason i bring that up with cars is you can be sure when i return my rental car in las vegas i cleaned out the gps on it because i didn't want somebody to know that that i was at misty strip club or whatever it was called at 2 30 in the morning even though i was

going there to meet this rather famous computer virus guy who's uh kind of a weird one so uh anyway you might as well know there's two gps's in rental cars there's the one that you can possibly rent there's also one in the hidden away in the car somewhere and a person from ontario discovered that when he returned her car thinking it was going to be 300 and it was 1800 because he had signed on the contract it was a small rental car company in california i agree to pay a dollar per mile when i drive outside of the state of california not noticing that he drove all over the place arizona nevada came back and got this big bill which

last i heard they were still trying to enforce so i'm happy to have more questions i don't know if you're able to do them by voice or in the chat line or something like that i think these sessions are slated to be 15 minutes i'm honestly not totally up to speed on that um but um uh i can tell you that all those videos that i showed are easy to find and you know with the recording of this you'll be able to track them down um so rob uh since you obviously know a lot about this you have another one for me

oh you said the guy's name i didn't really want to say his name um yeah i have some other stories about that rather famous guy uh computer virus guru he was in a place in south america and he almost got arrested and it's not a good place to get arrested and i investigated why and it turned out he lived on an island there was a ferry service run by locals he didn't like their schedule so he hired another local to start a competing ferry service with the old folks who had been there running that business for a long time and so they actually decided that that he uh he was persona non grata and in that part of the world you know

la por lucia basically if you're powerful enough you can get your uh get your will done and actually that brings me to uh something i'd like to share with you about the uh um and and i saw the word shadow people uh you're gonna have to tell me exactly what you mean by that because it's a little cryptic too but i'll tell you a blockchain story i know a company that was hired to go into the country of honduras to do a blockchain version of their land registry so nobody could hack it and it's because it was a problem and it was because the big generals and politicians would come into the land title and go i want to own that

seaside land land there and the clerk would say sir someone else that belongs to someone else well change it make it mine so they were having land title fraud so they thought okay we'll put the blockchain in and you know it won't it won't happen anymore but the problem with that is there's always a human right so that's another moral of the story so now what would happen is the generali would come in and go i want to own that finger over there and he would say no senior you cannot have that and he would put a gun to your head and go i'm going to own that finka right and so yes the blockchain is tamper

evident you would know that that happened but you still have to have a way to do land titles so a good moral of the story probably is you know beware if somebody has the intent to commit a fraud on you it's probably pretty difficult to detect them and the human factor is often going to be the way there's a great xkcd cartoon that says oh no he's using 40 96-bit key and and this kind of encryption it'll take us months with super computers and then the other character comes in and says wait a minute i've got a crowbar here we'll just beat his password out of him so please do know those of you that are

in the security profession that in fact there is a uh a human factor i'm going to give you a little news you can use if you go to cio can dot ca uh and mouse around on there a bit we've actually been running some fascinating sessions with some of canada's top chief information security officers and when i say we i mean the cio essays association sponsors it my colleague ron murch a retired professor from the hashgain school of business and i sit in on the session sometimes we talk and we take notes and they're under what's called chatham house rules so nothing is attributed to these people except for a few like bobby singh who's the

ciso of tmx the stock exchange in toronto he allows us to use his name because he's the moderator but if you read these things and there's about five blog posts up there now from these sessions you're going to learn some stuff about identity management you're going to learn some stuff about industrial process control from people who do this for a living and are paid handsomely and i should mention that computer security does pay handsomely so that was my commercial number one my commercial number two um i am the board chair of a uh the information and communications technology council of canada so all you have to remember is ictc if you were to google that you'd find

this why am i telling you this because one of the nice things is if you can do something to help somebody else out and we all know i'm sure people who used to have jobs as petroleum engineers jobs like that that went away and the funny thing is a lot of those people would make darn good computer people and there's a lot of computer jobs that have that have opened up in calgary bow valley college in partnership with us and the university and others are running a program called edge up and i know because as a board chair i know all about it but i've been invited to the cohort graduation which is coming up soon

so in a nutshell what the hedge up does is it takes people who are unemployed but are smart and technical it figures out what they know so if you're a petroleum engineer you know statistics you know you've got the math background you've got the logical thinking maybe you don't know java maybe you don't know python i mean there's there's gaps like that but you probably can learn them pretty quickly so as a result in a fairly short space of time with program delivers like bow valley college we go out there and we give those people those skills and the employment success is phenomenal because these people come out ready to walk into a job now it may not

pay the wage they got before but it's going to pay more than half that anyway so what you need to do is think about helping other people like that and again if people come to you with security questions i uh i get asked about privacy and there are people who just come to me with horror stories try to help them out i mean i'm gonna close in about a minute just basically by saying let's all give back okay i remember for a while the uh kips chopped up in edmonton let people come down to the uh the arena there with their sick virus-laden computers and debug them i'm not suggesting you go do that there are businesses that do that just

fine now but find ways that you can give back to society i tried to do that with my talks um one more plug from my book techno creep you can read it online you can buy a hard copy from amazon uh i'll autograph it the next time i see you on on that happy note unless there are more questions showing up in the chat line uh i think we're coming up to our time limit here so i'm going to uh stop talking and just watch the chat line for a minute or two okay thanks very much for your attention