HG - You CAN get there from here!

all right nobody cares all right all right you can get there from here this is this is not part of the show all right I'm not going to read all of this I'm going to just tell you real quick um I have been in the infoset community for I don't know 15 years or so or or so I claim uh started out in recruiting I still support recruiting uh through way of talent engagement I this fine gentleman and I have uh we keep we keep working at companies that get bought by other companies so uh we started at a small boutique shop got bought by a big company and then we went to another Boutique shop got bought by

another company and now we work for I think the world's largest consulting firm and because they bought a company that we were working for so that's a thing um tell us a little bit about yourself Drake so I'm Drake um started out with a IT background did a pivot into recruiting helping out a small company um been there I landed there and just kind of been there since um gained a couple certifications some it certifications um I have been with the center now what about two years two years with the Cent but prior to that we've been I've been in the space for over 10 years doing you know Intel um recruiting so we both started uh on the

it side and then moved into recruiting and uh and we have a little some stories that we can share with you about pivoting into different things if any of you got to catch the last talk which was fantastic by the way um there was also stories about pivoting from wrestling into cyber security so it's just really good testimonies of moving into different areas throughout your career um I hear a lot from especially active duty service members uh which is a passion of mine um not just because my sons in the Army but um who struggle with how to enter into our community and our industry and I hope that we touch upon those things for you all I'm

kind of an interactive speaker it would be fine with me if anybody uh thinks of a question while we're talking and just wants to raise their hand that's fine with me the only person who might not like that is whoever's running the microphone right because we want uh I'm sorry babe because we want uh the camera to be able to hear you or the people uh watching online to be able to hear you so feel free to interrupt I'm Italian I always interrupt okay so we're going to go through uh we're going to go through some fundamental things about being a either a Searcher for a job or a person who's just interested in pivoting into

different areas or breaking into different areas we're going to talk about targeting that search and um also how to kind of stand out as a candidate we've done a little bit of talking all throughout this day about resumés rums are important um Drake is literally one of the best recruiters I've ever worked with in my life and uh he's kind of fantastic at redoing resumés and keeping track of people uh so if you can connect to him and network with him throughout your journey throughout your path uh he can help you so uh a little bit more about networking and volunteering and um well you can read the slide so uh on we go all right this adorable thing that I

threw in here at the last minute uh I'll tell you why I did it I cannot remember uh how old this is one of my hiring Executives uh one of my VPS daughter drew this and and sent it to him um and it's her depiction of his career journey and the thing that stood out to me number one the company that we were working for uh was called noveta and she brilliantly if you Google it uh the path that she Drew here her little her little uh chart here is based on the uh the noveta logo go so SC I thought that was brilliant but the thing that stood out to me is that she does she is depicting

human connections here she is talking these are little conversations that are happening and then the little lizard or alligator is just confused and doesn't know what to do and is trying to connect to people and that leads me to this and this is where I'm going to look at you Drake to help me out but uh I I I normally get permission from people before I steal anything that they said but this was on a public um this was posted publicly uh so they were talking about AI which came up in the last talk as well um in fact somebody was texting me during the panel earlier and was like why aren't why aren't all recruiters

already replaced by AI if it's just a bunch of keyword matching and uh similar to what uh Bryson and and Jake were talking about here um I really want you all to understand the importance not because I'm trying to save my job cuz I'm not in recruiting anymore um but I really believe that uh networking doing what you're doing here connecting to people and having a human connection a human to guide and help and represent you someone that you can trust whether it's an someone on the agency side or someone internal um is is super impactful and uh yeah it is very impactful I believe that as a candidate looking for an for an opportunity you

should definitely connect with your recruiter and just let them guide you to a certain degree free of you know to the direction that you want or the location or opportunity so just having that connection is always a plus because you can reach out at times even if you don't get the job and say hey um I'm back in the market again I get it all the time like I may reach out someone may reach out to me I talk to them six months or nine months down the line and I'll say hey hey John I remember you I got another opportunity opened up so just having that connection is always a plus um LinkedIn is always a great way to

start but again you can do more than than just LinkedIn try you know these events the bsides the meetups the uh talks things like that just and to advance your career or switch career you know paths depending on which which one you decide to go with um but it's always a plus just have that I believe you should always have that communication with the actual human I know they may call us Bots sometimes but still have that connection with us I think it's a plus to get to get you to your next steps to where you need to go so I I referenced earlier uh this morning uh that your recruiter is like your Jerry

McGuire they're your agent they are your person who should care about you and and help you go through all the different stages of what you're looking for so uh I know that there is there's kind of a a reputation in recruiting and and it takes it takes a special person to kind of go beyond that where they're like oh you're trying they're trying to get commission off of you you know what the internal Comm the internal recruiters they don't get commission they have to really care about you and they have to really care about the mission that they're supporting to help match you up in that way does anybody have any questions so far about connecting to

recruiters or no yes it's going to be trial and error when you're building a relationship like any other relationship building experience I was mentioning uh before that imagine if uh when you apply and you think who when are they going to pick it up there's a I call it the black hole right so I suggested that perhaps a uh LinkedIn might be when I think of recruiting might be the best place where most recruiters are active so different recruiters are going to be in the meetups and be at the conferences and be in different places like for me um I have a oh I have I'm embarrassed of the unread emails uh or messages rather on

my LinkedIn sorry but I see it if you send me a Twitter message isn't that weird but as so everybody has their place that makes sense for them but if you're paying attention my LinkedIn says don't send me a message here send me a Twitter message so um so they're all different but when I say trial by error you're going to get you're going to have the conversation and you're going to send the message like I said start on LinkedIn hello so and so well first of all you're going to go this is the company that I saw the job posting and I'm going to search it says look for keyword look for job title whatever

you're looking for and you can say okay I saw this exenter job posting and I'm wondering what to do so you're going to search for um uh job title you're going to see recruiter you're going to see his name you're going to send him a message he's going to respond right and you're going to say I applied and now he's going to go find your application and I know that that feels like something's broken right um why didn't he already see the application uh it could be based on volume it could be based on the the applicant tracking system you just got lost in there somehow it's checking all the boxes so hopefully that makes

sense um so I'm not going to drain this because you all are capable of reading but I just these are some things that um we're going to touch on in a little bit more detail moving forward and you can reach out to either of of us afterwards to talk more about any of these things um um uh Drake is going to talk to you a lot about kind of targeting um you know anybody with an engineering exper experience or any kind of uh solving a customer's problems you've done at some point in your careers you've done uh requirements analysis or building or ranking right where you're like okay well what are the problems that we're

solving here's all the things uh you're going to treat your job search or your career advancement problem the same way by building a requirements Matrix right um and and building your target search that way um and so we're going to do a little when people always tell you that you should do your research on your company um they're like oh you should show up to the interview with knowing all these great facts about I don't care I don't really care if you did that I don't care if you know who our CEO like I don't care I personally that's my opinion but if you go in especially on social and I know Twitter's weird right

now and yes I still call it Twitter but there's there's communities that are comfortable in places that are having conversations about their jobs and about their companies I think from a research perspective that's a really good place to discover um if this is a a fit for you or not do you have any further um I think you nailed it okay all right so here's that requirements uh Matrix thing and I take it away Drake yeah so with your in in my opinion so for for a candidate that's looking for an ideal role um you're you don't have to be 100% on to that role with all the skills all the years of experience and things like that but if

your requirements if you're close if you're about I would say 75% let's just have a conversation let's see because a lot of times the the actual job description is not giving you what they need it's some words on so in in the National Security um Lane so they can't say a lot of things so until I get you on the phone I can maybe ask for certain tools that you may know about or heard about so that's where I I say have that conversation so just you know just it's not 100% match with requirements but again if you're close let's just have a conversation reach out to your recruiter or apply to that job if it's close enough the

recruiter should reach back out to you first um I do think that a lot of times as recruiters don't um go through their emails of all the candidates I think they should do it more but I mean sometimes it's hard to wake up when you have a 100 emails from 10 people that's qualified so how do you take your your how do you manage your your desk if that makes and what would you suggest if you see the the job postings uh to be in order to be compliant are supposed to break down everything according to what is required versus is what is preferred if you're interested in a position and you don't meet one of those basic qualifications

what would you suggest that you do in order to apply and be seen if your resume isn't going to be a point-to-point match what by the way this is to someone's earlier questions why AI won't work right because there are people who in my opinion if you are willing and able to learn you're qualified so how do you bridge that Gap right like how how would you apply for the position I don't have a degree I've never been qualified for the last 10 jobs I had but I got them right like so what would you suggest um just I I always tell people just apply to the job do your research um find the recruiter

find a hiring manager find I mean research research research find the person that you need to get in touch with send them an email um again look at the follow their page on LinkedIn see if they're at a Meetup in are or you know something like that just pop up on them be aggressive with your search um to get what you want you have to go after it I mean you have to be aggressive sometimes so and what are the other paths that people should take besides job boards um again uh meetups these conferences networking just your social network your social network should it should have some connection that will give you point you in the right

directions just utilize all of that use utilize your friends your you know look into the company see if you know someone that works for the company that you're trying to apply to that could be a great way to to to walk yourself in go sign up like if you need a a a Security Plus go to the schools go to um umgc and and meet the meet the people there just have conversations just be again aggressive in your your search so I have a few uh opinions personal opinions about resumés and how they can be effective and then I'm going to hand it off to my resumé expert but I think for me um as someone who I know I

no longer recruit I no longer look at very many resumés but when I did I would get resume fatigue right people would go why are you asking me that question did you read the resume I'm like make it easier for me and never assume that the all the see there's a lot of different layers that you have to get through like you might have to get through the first level of screening or you might have to get through some automated screening process that was set up I hate those by the way inside of the applicant tracking system so I think that the first thing you can do to compel anyone that is reading to keep reading is to tell them

I'm a this and I want to be a that make it crystal clear and be ready to adjust that according to the position that you're looking for so be able to say uh I'm a systems engineer interested in becoming a Solutions architect now I know and now I'm interested in continuing to read and to look for the you know for the keywords that make you a fit for the position and so forth um what else do you think is really important in terms of in terms of resumés so I I always tell people please add your clearance to your resume some people say don't put it on on your resume all of my positions are cleared

so if it's not on there I can probably guarantee I'm going to say I'll put you in the pal to check you out a little bit later I say put your clearance on there that's always or even if you don't have a clearance just put something on there to say I can obtain a clearance willing to obtain a clearance or if you can't put the levels you can say that you are cleared and then that's going to still compel the recruiter to ask you a little bit more

questions has an IQ of over 75 like I I they should be able they should operative word being should be able to figure out this person had a clearance previously right um which is a good thing although I mean we could talk for an hour about clearances sometimes it's easier to get one if you never had one than it is if you're trying to upgrade or something because the process is bizarre are um and that's a really good point you know what sometimes you can figure out or the recruiter should be able to figure out on the hiring managers definitely can figure out just based on either your employer if you list them even maybe your location and

the type of work that you're doing um I don't want to give an exact hint because I don't want to say the wrong thing but I'll be like oh they work in XYZ town and they're doing XYZ job it it it it seems obvious to me who they're working for let me dig a little deeper and find out especially if you have some specific um technical skills or you're in a certain geographical location yeah those that's just that's just extra recruiting right like looking at it and going oh well they're in they're in this town or that's where their employer is um you you make assumptions in that way so yes anything else got it all right um

I feel like it's important to uh when you're thinking about what those questions are I've seen some bad advice out there people I some really makes me sad breaks my heart uh bad advice on how you should be go into an interview um I I've seen a lot of things trending about um exactly how you should dress or exactly how you should behave or exactly what you should say I kind of feel like you should be who you are right because if you're pretending to be anything other than who you are and that gets you a job it also gets you a job that you're probably not going to be happy in in the long run right um so depending on where

you are in your career Journey you may be more or less you know desperate or eager to land said job but in order for it to be a good and Lasting relationship I I highly recommend being who you are the last job I interviewed for my hair was blue so me personally I think I'm on I'm the opposite of that so I believe this that's okay so if you're my candidate and I know that your personality is bold it's loud it's all over right I can tell on the phone if I'm one if I'm not on the phone with you for 15 to 20 minutes probably not going to go to the next steps right relationships You're

Building relationships with your recruiter if I say to you hey this manager is really mild and the team is really relaxed and laid back when you interview can you please just scale it back a little bit don't change your personality to the all the way but scale it back let's get you through the door I believe you should listen to your recruiter and let them you know it's a coaching thing that's just That's My Method because I I see it a lot of times I see candidates come in they're not they're the opposite of loud you it's real introverted I'm like hey man you know I need you let me get a little little energy when you get on this call

tomorrow you know let's have three cups of caffeine in you just smile smiling is contagious if you smile while you're on the phone the manager May pick it up and they they may you know just the interaction just try your best and especially if you're doing zooms you're doing zooms hey don't be in the background again unless you you're coming out of the skiff or something and you can just go in a car pull over just say hey um let me pull over I'm in a Starbucks or something so I just believe you should let the let your recruiter coach you to the steps and then you can let your personality out but let's get you in the

door if you need if you need a job that's that's just my strategy you know what I think it's a little bit of both I think I think that's a really good point and I think the key thing there is when you are figuring out like if you go back to the requirements Matrix when you're figuring out what's important to you is is being is expressing yourself and having blue hair the most important thing to you so that's just part of while you're doing your search and when you're valuing you know what it is you want to do next I think that's a really good point so it's in it is incumbent upon the recruiter to offer to you what

you can expect you know in terms of you know he he knows all of his managers a couple of them are in the room I ain't going to point them out but he knows you know what makes them laugh or or cry um so he's going to he's going to be like I said you're Jerry McGuire he's going to coach so that's a really good point so then you decide how you want to be based on what is important to you and what you want to do next how bad do you want it yeah right how do we get there from here nobody's going to throw a question at me stomp me all right

yeah oh I I think I heard you say uh how can you find that right recruiter how can you recruit that recruiter how can we best find the recruiter that works with us

weild Rel that's an excellent point I think that specifically in in our community maybe you figure out who Who's involved in your community who's who's having actual uh valid important conversations with the people who's who's participating who's at the places like you don't have to be a technical expert he went and got a bunch of technical service I have never done that um but so he can actually have technical conversations with you I think it's going to be based on those things too you're going to look at his profile and you're going to see that he went and got an Amazon CT or he did he did these things that may make him a more

attractive recruiter to you so are these people volunteering in your community are they speaking in your community are they in the places that you're in I'm not saying that they all have to get up on a stage and do things right but I think it matters when you're searching for recruiters um how how much impact are they actually having in your community how much do they actually understand it because think about it if they if they actually have relationships in the industry that you're interested in that's a valuable relationship for you they're going to introduce you to people in fact they're going to say they're going to care about your their relationship with you and they're going

to say and I've seen him do this um you know what I don't have anything for you or I can't do this however I'm going to introduce you to some other place and then maybe you become this referer you know you guys it becomes M mutually beneficial at that point right so he's going to straight up say you know what you're not a fit for this here's why but here's this area where you can go so he just didn't fill the job but you're going to remember that and maybe six months from now or a year from now or whatever uh when you find out that your friend's looking for something you probably send a referral to him and get

paid up to $20,000 by the way I would say use the 15 to 20 minute conversation most of us are are brilant enough to to kind of gauge if we're you know having a good conversation with someone or just a relationship in about 15 20 minutes if you're a recruiter and you're on a phone I'm going to have you on that phone for 15 20 minutes I'm asking questions I'm drilling questions to you and then I give you the opportunity so again build the relationships just have the relationships I have candidates that literally text my phone okay no no no no so I'm going to ask you guys a question real quick and then I'll let you go um raise your hand

if recruiters send you surveys or questionnaires before they've ever even spoken to you do you like that right I don't know I really don't know um and how much time do they do the recruiters spend talking to you is it a five minute conversation raise your hand do they talk to you for 30 minutes nobody ever talks to a recruiter I'm very curious yes the that

perfect good perfect okay so and obviously you guys get paid off of the final product of you know turning the job in what amount of time is really acceptable for you guys to build a relationship where it's almost free in a way and also like I've heard people say in the past like oh treat them to a cup of coffee or take them out to a meal how do you feel about that so wait let me make sure wait let me sure yeah are you suggesting that the recruiter gets paid based on filling the job well I'm saying you get paid based on your final product so like your job is to fill the fill a position if you're

spending your time talking to somebody else you're not necessarily working on filling that position I understand um so it depends on the type of recruiter right corporate recruiters are are not receiving it compensation for filling the position they're does that make sense like they're not on they're not on commission um for the Rel from a relationship standpoint I mean I don't have to go you know buy coffee for everybody but that's part of a relationship too right so um you can't take all you can't take all the candidates out to coffee but um but it is worth worth making the connections and maybe I find out that you're coming here this weekend and say let's meet up

while we're here yeah you know what do you think yeah same thing I was going to say that um but yeah we don't get um commission off each higher but um we just I would just say you know the the once you have your recruiter working with you if they offer coffee take it other I buy you coffee you buy me coffee yeah you can buy me coffee all day I mean are you SK are you skilled enough to feel this Ro would be my next question right I mean it's always a great thing right I I mean you'd be surprised um normally the recruiter I'm not normally the recruiter makes that first this is a dating thing but dating

gesture right so we're reaching out like hey I'm reaching out it's almost like dating you can I date you today I get a call tomorrow can we go to lunch at 12 just the call that's set of phone screen up so it's kind of a you know it's a relationship black and not sweet like my soul um so but but definitely um when you're having the interview particularly with the managers in my opinion be ready to tell stories or examples that answer the questions that they're like a time that you failed or a time that you learned or a big problem that you solved you're the thing that you're the most proud of this this

week or this month or this year be ready to actually answer those questions in the form of a story to make it more of a personal conversation and my favorite thing of is to be ready at the very end the last thing they're going to say is do you have any questions for us so you want to know about the 41k matching and you want to know if you can purchase stocks and you want to know all these things that are very important especially at the negotiation table but be ready to ask questions that are going to reveal to you this might end up being the most important part of the interview don't forget you're interviewing them so make

them into a person for a second you'll catch them off guard and say why did you end up working here why did you choose this job what have you learned in the last 6 months and if they're in a management position I think you should ask them how many people that they have promoted or put on a growth path or provided training to on their team yeah

yeah how are we doing on time okay all right so uh if you go to I don't know if you go to the this is really not a Shameless plug but if you if you do go to Defcon and you do go to the uh to the welcome panel you're going to hopefully I I won't beef it and you'll hear me tell stories about my first ever defc how I did it and but the but the reality of it is it goes back to that the the little picture that the little girl Drew and about networking and about making um contributions to the community like when I didn't have anything technical to say or when I

didn't have any you know cfps that I was responding to and before I helped you know co-found the car hacking Village oh my God nine years ago um before I started doing actual contributions to the community I was reading books I was looking online I was trying to figure out why do these people go to these conferences who's talking what are they talking about who are they connected to and what are the conversations that they're having and can I be part of those conversations right in in in a way that is Meaningful it was like the beginning of the journey and I think it's probably in our community and I don't know what's going to happen to

Twitter I don't know where we're all going to end up um and yes I still call it Twitter but um it's but but we find a way as a community you know um United by a passion for teaching and learning to have a place that we're comfortable in places like bides right uh places like Villages um so there are ways that you can contribute even if it's just being a mic Runner or getting water for people or there's just so many elements of all the things that you're experiencing this week that uh if you raise your hand people need your help and that's where you're going to network I I will tell stories um also about I met the CEO of

the last company that hired me that got bought by the company where I am now literally at a pool uh at black hat um doing jell shots at 10 o' in the morning you never know you do not know uh everyone that you're talking to whether it's you're going to learn in talks and you're going to learn at Villages but hallways and lines and pools apparently are also places where you can meet either the next person that you want to hire or the next person that will want to hire you so yes ctfs and everything I think you got it all yeah just join ctfs um I want to tell a story about him since he's acting shy this is his first

talk by the way is he doing great awesome um so just really really funny so funny story oh funny story so I'm going out so I'm I'm working everybody's like you know I'm like I going to go to this conference so so I want to go to a conference because I'm trying to gain some more certific a certification with AWS go to the conference revent what I go into a hackathon come to find out look unb no to me I end up winning second place me and my team so it's like when we when I got there I was you know my ex boss ex supervisor gave me the opportunity she saw something in me she said go after it I

went after it and just been running from there um which gave me a lot of you know training schooling and I met so many great individuals there still connect with them over the over the to these to this day um really smart people brought some to the the company um at Defcon I brought some guys just with like some literally rare individuals in the world with the special skill set to the company so um again Network and just have conversations don't be afraid to just start a conversation and um and don't be afraid to take a leap just do it right just jump in just go after what you want and when you have someone

that'll give you the opportunity run with it well he goes what should I do at my first devc con and and you know I was like well you need to go into there's going to be these rooms and they're dark and that's CTF and well there's there's other rooms that are dark but anyway you're going to go into the CTF and you're going to you're going to bring like Red Bull what did I say Red Bull and pizza and you're just going to offer it to them and they're going to love and appreciate you for doing that and then so he got when he got back I was like how was it did you bring Red Bull and he

goes um well my team won I'm like really you had to go all the way but anyway it's it's about actually making contributions so that's yeah and it was a great well and thank you for um giving me the opportunity so if you're if you and when you were hearing the last speaker talk about uh writing is important writing is all like you can't be a pentester if you can't write hell you can't get anywhere in our in our there's going to be writing and reports that you have to do in every position that I can actually think of at the moment and the more you advance in those roles the more you have to write so if

you don't love writing um and and thank you Jen for reminding me of that um you should practice that as well um and you can do blog posts and you can get on GitHub and good recruiters are looking there they're looking at what you've written um so do that as well and and also for even some of the older ctfs we have we can give you some links you guys can just check them out and just you know you can ping me back and say what your and we get because we do it quite often we have them up we'll just keep them running just to to search for talent that way so even if you're not

looking right now just you can get I I'll give you some links after you could just kind of track it for you know future just playing around messing around with it and then let's stay in touch because you'll be surprised um some of the skills that you have meet a requirement that's not even out there right now because a lot some of the jobs that we have we they're just not out there right now but I can put you with them if I know your skill set search for employers that are doing like um hiring happy hours and different types of events that they're hosting internally as well in your area um sometimes they're doing ctfs at their events or

they're doing demonstrations and things like that giving away cool prizes so um and those are great places to network as well you don't have to get hired by the company doing that but guess what the other attendees are like-minded attendees and more networking is going to happen for you there as well questions um I I started to do stories and we're you know um you heard a lot of good really really good stories that I can't top earlier about um taking the leap into doing something that you've never done before is going to be about when you're following that path of doing the networking finding somebody that'll give you that is willing to give you the

opportunity to do something that you haven't done before um and I I personally believe that it and it's a discovery you know process it's going to happen through conversations if it's just one inone matching and this is why that will never work many people who have the ability and the willingness to figure stuff out and learn how to do stuff who don't meet qualifications are going to be overlooked I hope that never happens or the technology gets smart enough that that that it won't happen but that's you know that's the human element and that's the reason why somebody's going to get to know you and they're going to figure figure out how the best Recruiters on

the the on our team never recruited before right um maybe we have people I have I have an I have an infantryman who's retired um we have analysts all kinds of linguists um it's just a really uh good example of people a barista a barista that's true Barista that's true and you know why there's a lot of books out there I can name a whole bunch of them right now about how to get a job and how to advance in your your career and I don't love them all but Alysa Miller's book is fantastic and she has a whole chapter about why Baristas are qualified you should read it all right anything else um by the way when um

you're in your either negotiation phase or you don't have one of the specifically a certification that you don't have that's missing be willing to start at the conversation with the recruiter first so that they have a heads up don't have a security plus I see that it's required I'm studying for it I know how to get it I'm going to get it that can actually be a contingency a lot of uh candidates don't realize this there can be contingencies in your offer letter that say like you all every offer letter has some contingencies in it already like I I'm not going to murder anyone and or I haven't in the past but also it can say and my continued

employment is contingent upon receiving this certification within this period of time and then the company should help you get the training to get the C and pay for you to get it and we reimburse so if if you're looking to gain one you should come with the censure we will reimburse for your certifications um a lot of companies do so but we're the best all right I don't think you should ever badmouth your current employer I don't think that your motivation and this is this is between you and you uh not just what you shouldn't shouldn't say your motivation shouldn't be that you're running away from a thing right um your motivation shouldn't be that your situation is bad

um there's no right or wrong way at any point in your career uh you can make a change everything is should be on the negotiation table every single thing I had somebody oh Laura you'll remember this somebody asked for like PGA tickets or something yeah I'll do that do whatever you want like everything's on the table right so so ask for the things that are important to you whether it's you know I have to be off every Thursday or I want to be primarily remote or I want to be half and half Flex schedule think about you know when you're thinking about just the offer that is interesting to you um you may care less about salary when you

think of other things like um our company after 10 years gives you healthc care for Life what I've never even heard of that that's awesome right so um things like that at different stages of your career are going to mean more to you than your paycheck I think um but so everything's on the table ask for the world and figure out um sometimes if you don't ask you don't know what they're willing to do um be on the lookout for bad advice I literally yes go ahead do you have any comments on what the phrase that whoever mentions numbers ver loses like how how do you enter the contract negotiation how do you ask for the right

amount and get the right amount sure that's a really good question the question was um it's not advisable to start with salary um I don't think that any conversations are I personally don't think any conversations are a waste of time so if you're going to end up asking for a million dollars and we had a conversation I don't feel like you wasted my time we still had a conversation it might be valuable to one of us someday um but I think you should uh bring it up early on right but remember to go all the way back to the requirement slide and think about all the things that matter to you besides just a salary

um so think about the bonus structure the performance bonus structure whether or not they offer sign on bonuses sometimes you don't know unless you ask sometimes it can be a phenomenal bonus think about if they have ESOP or ESP and what their 401K matching is there's a million things there's training there's whether or not they will pay you uh one two three four five seven people in this room are being paid to be in this room by their company that's cool right so will they send you to conferences will they pay for your certifications be thinking about all the things but don't be afraid to say the actual real number and I personally think you should answer

the question like this when the recruiter says what salary are you looking for you can answer it two ways you can say what is the range or what is the max flip the question onto them and or say here's what I've been seeing right and there is a somebody reminded me earlier it's called I think it's called a PID transparency act they put salary ranges they're supposed to on the job postings now however don't be afraid of those numbers and when I say that I mean um they they are required based on the job location and sometimes you have to put a specific state in there you have to put Colorado you have to put whatever

don't look at that number and think that's the the end all be all it might not be considering again all the things we talked about like signal bonuses and stuff stuff um aren't going to be captured in that number and neither is um clearance premiums if you have one right or if you're willing to obtain one um so there is the ability to earn greater than what you see in that range that's very it's very regulated what they have to put in there so don't be afraid don't be afraid to apply for a job because of what you see on that number it's very regulated what they put there so I hope that makes sense and

sometimes you can go over that number so don't think that that number is the the end all um again depending on the role you can go above that number so don't be afraid to ask for it if you want that if you know you have a certain salary range to make you stay ask for it and then I think it works it works out better from my opinion I don't think you have to apply for everything I think you can start with a job and then you make that connection and then you let that recruiter know that you saw multiple other jobs so don't rep I don't think you should go to XY company's website and apply for 10 jobs or five

jobs or 17 jobs I think you should apply for one I think you should have a conversation with the recruiter I think you should send them a LinkedIn message if they don't respond to your application and then you can find out who their boss is if they don't reply to that message and you send them a message I swear to God I'm not lying uh um so and then someone's going to look at your application and then the conversation that you have with the recruiter is going to lead to you being considered based on what you tell them and what the profile is built for you for other things as well

yes to you know avoid them say one more time red flags when uh looking for a new recruiter is there any red flags that you would say they would show to avoid are there any red flags about a recruiter that would make you not want to talk to them if if they do not if you reach out to them too many times they do not respond just it's respect too right so we if if you're going to not give me the respect I've been reaching out to you I've sent an application when they finally get in touch with you do you really want that relationship I kind of want to reverse engineer my answer I I I don't like

there to be uh maybe an assumption made about do they you know do they have or it's kind of like I wouldn't want to make an assumption about any candidates right um there aren't a ton of of of red flags for for me I think everybody deserves a chance right um so hopefully you can get in touch with them you should uh I'd look for green flags and not red ones right um try to build relationships with uh with people that that look like they might know what they're talking about um and furthermore maybe look at take a minute to look at their uh recommendations on LinkedIn if they took care of people people take a

minute uh just like a restaurant treat it like going to a restaurant right right um in that regard I think yeah that was a good question was that of course of course I think we might be down to like 30 seconds more oh what question so oh hi I was kind of wondering how do you let's say you connect with a recruiter or something like that how do you bridge that Gap from like the recruiter to the people that they know like how do you go about that conversation in a way that doesn't seem like you're just trying to like get by them and stuff like that but actually make the connection with them make the

connection with the people that they know just so it's like more authentic yeah make it authentic just like you said if if if it's authentic that recruiter should be willing to give you all the leads I may not have a role for you again I may know someone else in a different different area different division and then I'll say hey I need you to reach out to this person or I will just do an email like a a introduction email and just say this is this candidate is looking for this job I don't have any can you reach out to this candidate or and then if they do not want to reach out to you I've done it

before they'll Reach Out they'll take you off the the the thread and just say hey right now Drake I don't have anything for them can you just keep them warm and then that recruiter should should reach out and say hey we don't have anything for you and let's stay in touch you know let's just talk once or twice a month something like that I think we I think we just about reached the deadline um our contact information didn't make it onto the slide sorry I'm uh K rener on Twitter I'm I'm Drake so uh this this will be recorded with our contact information is is actually on the website so all right if you have any

further questions um hit us up and uh look forward to connecting with you [Applause] all laptop

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