BSides SP 2025 - Do Crime ao Código: O Papel da Perícia Forense Computacional e da I.A.

Ricardo Capozzi, with the lecture "From Crime to Code: The role of the Computer Forensic Investigation and the Artificial Intelligence in the Analysis of Electronic Tests". Welcome, and I ask for a round of applause for him. Let me just send a WhatsApp here, and I'll explain why I'm sending a WhatsApp here, that it worked. This is the fourth edition that I lecture. All the others, last year it was in the theater, so there were notebooks. This year I didn't bring a notebook, and nobody has a notebook. So I'm thanking a colleague here, he was going to lend me his, but the people here are already bringing it. Well, good evening, I thank you for participating. Usually the last lecture is

about warriors, because it ends up being empty, people leave. and then at 6:30, when this lecture is over, there are the raffles, and let's see who wins. You have a crammed passport, you have a ticket to Disney, right? I think there are those things. Well, while you don't come, I want to at least make a presentation, so we don't delay any longer, about the area of artificial intelligence and the area of forensic computing. Does anyone in the audience have one of these two areas or not? Militar or not? What is it? Militar? Act, let's think like that. The first question we ask, I'll show you later, I'll go through the slides a little faster, but the attention of artificial intelligence. What

do you understand by artificial intelligence in the matter of content production? And then we'll see what kind of content it is. Is it any kind of content? Can I produce something criminally speaking? Imagine if I give a prompt in some intelligence with your characteristics and a person like you comes out. Is it a copy? Does it violate any copyright? Does it violate your right to image? Have you ever stopped to think about it or not? If I say: "Write a text based on the whole work of Machado de Assis", and I get a new text as if it were Machado de Assis writing, is it a kind of plagiarism, posthumous, something like that? Think about it, let's think, 5:40, 5:30 in the afternoon, do you

think this is a matter of being thought in today's society or not? Or should we not think about it anymore? What if I give you a prompt and say: "Make a woman of 1.70 meters, with the eyes of Paloma Oliveira, the mouth of Angelina Jolie, the hair of such and such actress, and a person comes out, and this person can be like you." And then? Did she hurt your personality again? How do you act in this context? Have you ever thought about it? "Okay, now I'm going to provoke you a little better." And if this is used to incriminate you? And then? Does the callus start to tighten or not? Does the pain start to get a little stronger? Got it? And how do

we do it? Can we do it or not? Is anyone here from the law department or not? From the law department? So you're going to study the criminal mind. Perfect. Criminalistics and criminology. Crime study. Perfect. Let's bring a little bit of this reality here. What is crime, then? For us to understand what... Because it's like this, wait a minute. If I'm going to give autonomy to an intelligence, I need to know if I can blame it or not. Or you'll see an intelligent being put to jail, a prison voice for artificial intelligence. Be arrested, I can say that. So I ask you, how do I arrest a computer? Can I take responsibility for the algorithm? Can I blame

the one who input the prompt of the command? Who trained? Who determined the weights, the biases? If you use a percepton network, an RNA network, an artificial neural network, can I put a crime on that? What do you think? I want you to think with me, guys. That's your challenge, right? Today, how do I create a crime scene? The correct name, since you study it, is called crime scene. And where is the crime scene? If you come here in a room and see a corpse with 17 stab wounds and a knife in the side, your crime scene is this environment, the crime weapon is the crime weapon, probably the knife, you won't deduce that he killed himself, because no one kills himself with 17 stab

wounds. Now I transfer this to the cyber environment, to the internet. What is the crime scene? Where is the crime? Where is it done? Where is the algorithm running? Where did I input the data? Where did it work? So, these are the questions we ask ourselves. Is the tool guilty? Is it the algorithm? Is it the one who programmed it? Is it the one who owns the tool? Is it the one who made the prompt? Is it the one who fed the dataset? What is your notion of artificial intelligence for a neural network? Not LLM, as it is called. What does it weigh? First, I'll give you an observation. The artificial intelligence, its characteristic is a property of intelligence. Intelligence is an attribute of organism, not

of mechanism. So when you say that your smart TV is intelligent, it's a simple euphemism, it's a word game for you to say that on TV you can interpret some frequencies or some... It's the will you have. But the artificial intelligence itself, which we want to bring, based on the production of deepfakes, which is the theme I'm going to bring, is made by adversary networks. So you have the GANs, the networks that do this, the convolutional networks that generate the image, and that I can get with a simple training set, which is the content, the data of the training, the dataset, and get your characteristics. So I take you, my colleague, I take your image, because I know. Do you know what a technique

called OSINT is? Does everyone know? Come on, ask, okay? There's no problem. OSINT technique, I take your image, I take a lecture you gave, In this talk I extract your voice, you are walking, I'm missing because I hurt my foot, but you are walking, I know you walk like this, they are natural behaviors, I know you can talk in a certain way, it can be gags, it can be dyslexia, it can be anything else, and what do I do? I feed, remember, this mass of data, which we call dataset, is where I feed my artificial intelligence, do you agree or not? Until then, all right? Guys, this is important. Now the question: until now, have you committed any crime? Go, kick it, you who

are studying criminal law. -You didn't consume, you didn't actually arrive and did something stupid. Wait a minute. For those who are arriving now, I'm waiting for the notebook, okay, guys? Welcome here. But there's one thing, in law, understand that law is part of your life. In law, In the case of crime, there are four phases: preparation and consummation. Sorry, it's... consideration and preparation. Then there's execution and consummation. In Brazilian law, the only phases that are penalized are the phases of execution and the result. Let me explain it better. You and I have it as a disaffection. And I say: "I don't like it, I'm planning to execute it. Is it a crime?" No. The preparation of the crime doesn't set the crime. Now, when I execute,

when I shoot, it's an attempt to murder. If I hit it, it's a serious body injury, etc. And if I kill it, it's a murder. Only in these two phases does Brazilian criminal law penalizes you. Then I ask you, let's bring this to our artificial intelligence, whatever it is, it's agnostic here, I'm not saying it's A, B or C. The question I ask you is: if I take your data, feed your data with an open source search, like Sinti, and input these data without you knowing, I don't need to ask for authorization from you, right? The thief says: "Can I steal you?" "Do you authorize me?" "No, nobody will do that, much less the official intelligence." So, my

question is: do you understand that it is possible to be penalized? So, how do we have to bring this relationship? So, when will we need the notion of a forensic computer expert? When will we have this need? Does anyone know about it or not? Does anyone understand it? For questions? Let me introduce myself, now that some other people have arrived, I'll make a small presentation. My name is Ricardo Capozzi, I work in the area of computer forensics and in the area of cyber control and information security audit based on ISO 27000, so I'm an ISO 27000 auditor. For those who are not familiar with ISO 27000, I believe that I will have a look at

this, because talking about ISO 27000 here is like talking about blood in a medical congress. But ISO 27000 talks about these controls. And I have been acting as a forensic expert for 25 years. So, my acting as a forensic expert... Thank you, guys. Imagine, imagine. I'm the one who thanks you. Give him a round of applause, please, for bringing the notebook. Applause for her, who brought the notebook charger. Thank you, girl. Thank you. Dramatic pause for the installation of the notebook. Let me just install it here, if you want to help me. I'll recommend you to Gordini and... I'll recommend you to Gordini and Oroquizes, okay? Good evening, I already talked a lot now I apologize,

I'll come back here. Our topic, as I was saying, about forensic computing, I'll give you some slides, this slide is for the event coordination. Let's talk about crimes. What can I do today regarding the criminal part? I just wanted to ask for permission because I was presenting myself, right? Now I jumped here. So I work in this area, I am a university professor, I am a computer scientist, researcher in this area and I am also a lawyer. So I managed to bring the area of computing, the science of computing and also the area of law together for my performance as an auditor and as a expert, okay? So So, what happens? All this behavioral relationship of

society allows you to fall into coups, frauds or any kind of crime. Crime, for those who don't know, is what is typified in the criminal code. It's a criminal type. "Capozzi, why do I need to know this?" Because it's your daily life, you live in it. If it's bullshit, it's there, the criminal code. So, what happens? Today we can use artificial intelligence, understand anything, to manipulate any kind of information. And this information is easily seen today in the Internet. It doesn't have to be a computer science PhD or artificial neural networks or generative genes to search for this kind of information. So, what are the provocations? I got this on Friday, where I did the same lecture on CryptoRave. I said: "I need to update

this slide". Artificial intelligence can be used to counterattacks. So, I won't mess with people anymore, I won't demolish a house or a bank with a goat's foot. Today, my relationship is indirect. And to characterize the idea of crime, I need authority and materialism, at least. The dynamics is how it's done. But how did the guy die? It's okay, with 17 stab wounds. So, there are indications that someone did it. It's not natural. Do you agree? Now, look what intelligence can do. It can create videos, deepfakes, with the voice, gesticulation, the particularities of a person, learned in open networks, in OSINT, that imitate him saying, in this case, for those who don't know, the president of Ukraine, saying that they are entregando os pontos. Uma

mentira. Aqui o Papa, afinado o Papa, vestindo aqui uma roupa, e aquela revista... I won't say the name, but it starts with Prada, etc. Saying, "I'm on the side of this outfit." I mean, false information that can change a person's destiny, even criminalize you. So, basically, what do I have as an idea to find out if something is fake or not? Let's take fake as a generative way to understand if it's fake or not. And then, we have that brief introduction, right, colleague of criminalistics? And I ask you, when do I need the performance of a forensic expert? When do I need it? Since you sat here. Go, you answer. It happens, Jair. Exactly. The expert is not like a

person who will do any kind of prevention work. "Come and see if everything is fine." No, the expert, exactly. He comes in when an incident occurs. Does anyone work here in the incident response team, CSIRT? Exactly. When you do a collection there to understand if you use NIST or SAM as a framework methodology, There is one of the stages, four stages, there are six stages, you have to do the collection. But notice, this is what the media sells. This is what the media sells. Here is the expert. In fact, it is a lot of abstraction, a lot of reading, a lot of understanding. So what do you need to do to be an expert? Have

a brain mechanism. "I need to buy tools? No. I need to do 240 million courses? No. I need to have a wallet like this? No, I don't need to." What do you need to do to be a expert? To have the capacity to synthesize and analyze. Do you have that? Do you have a critical sense? To the point that you look at the corpse with 18 stab wounds and say: "I don't think he killed himself." He tripped, fell 18 times on the knife. You understand? You have to be careful. So, when someone tries to sell you some ease, you say: "Man, I just need to have a critical sense." Cartesian thinking is important. For those who understood what I said, critical thinking, analytical thinking. This is my

lab. It's a 25-year-old lab. I have 25 years of experience. There are 600 thousand devices here. Do you need that? No. Cost to start being a expert? Zero. Zero. It's no use selling you anything. It's necessary if you're evolving. I brought this here because I know it always comes to this question. But speaking of what we do, it's proof production. It's not the expert who produces the proof. That's why it's evidence proof. There was a fact in the phenomenal world Someone was invaded, someone created your image, someone this, someone that. There's a fact. I have to create the evidence to prove the magistrate's conviction, the judge's conviction. Go ahead, if you're an expert, 5 pm, no, almost 6 pm, look at

the first image. I have 20 minutes to finish the presentation. What is that? Is it a duck? What if you turn your head? Is it a rabbit? One is a mammal, the other is an oviparous. And then, the second information. May you tell me what it is. This is in the statute, it's the judge who asks me, it's the public ministry who asks me, it's the delegate who asks me, it's the defense attorney who asks me. I'm there, crossfire. What is this? It's an image? Okay, all right. But what is it? Is it a couple? Is it a woman? Is it a dog? What is it? What is the third? Blood drops? What? Testicles. I don't know, for now I don't know. Let's go. What do you

understand by this information here? This is taken from the internet, I don't believe in anything, ok, people? What do you have from this information? Go ahead. "With a hug on my way out." What do you understand? That the two are together? One is dating one person and the other is dating another? Or are they dating each other? Who is married here? Wow. If I come and say, let me get him here, you, you. If I come and say, what's your name? Wagner and I are married. What do you understand? No, no, no. That's how the information comes. In the crime scene, or crime scene, I collected this information, that Ricardo and Wagner are married. Am I married to him, or is he married to his wife or mine? That's

here for now. Where is this information written? We have to be careful. Why am I bringing you here? What does this image mean? "It's a woman with eyes, eyes..." If I reverse the image, she's in despair, in a state of agony. First, do you agree that this is not saying that she's a woman anywhere? How can I say that this is a woman? So, who is the real Tom Cruise? How beautiful, how cute. I want to be handsome like that in my next incarnation. So, who is the real one? That's what the judge asks me. That's what the Public Prosecutor asks me. That's what the delegate wants to know. Who is the real one? What's the fact? Tell me the fact. Can

you tell me who is the real one? First, you have to say, Capozzi, that it's true. And if I tell you that none of the three is the American actor, etc., etc., etc. These three items here: production, that's a colleague from PECOF, and these two here, made by me, by artificial intelligence. The question is: who is the real what? "This is a person. I know he looks like that Matrix actor. This is Jack Shen, martial arts fighter. The other one is Zé Ninguém." I can say he's Zé Ninguém. Look at the complications we have. What if I brought this to me? This is me. If you've never seen me pregnant, I'm pregnant here. They're twins. I don't see the time to breastfeed. Now, based on this information, can

you ask for maternity leave at the NSS? "But he's pregnant, he doesn't have the rights." Without apologizing, please, this is science. A dismembered photo of me, and you say: "But it's on the face, it was..." And there? Can I ask for retirement, for me, a little older? So you start to understand that what will fall in the judiciary is that we, experts, know how to say if this is real or if it's a fake. Take a look at how I trained quickly with this intelligence. You write it down, do it there. I took the voice of a lawyer and trained this intelligence. The voice won't come out here, I'm sorry. But it's simple. You take

my voice and train. And I take whatever I want from you. I take a confession of guilt, a confession of debt, a confession that you killed someone, a confession, a confession. And there is no you. And then? Do you agree that there is a criticism? Go to this site and then you do it there. Open on the Surface Web, which used to be... "Oh, this is on the Deep Web, it's on the Dark Web." Dude, it's nowhere else. Just type it. "I want to make a synthetic voice." This will appear here. Why am I bringing this? It's a provocation for you to see the ease, right? Ah, there's a voice here. It won't come out. Look, here... How can I make authentication

through a fake image? I create your image, present it to the bank, and this bank releases a certain credit. Of course, today it's a little better, right? Some technologies have been made. And there I am, speaking synthesized. Is what I did there really me? There's no sound here. But I trained artificial intelligence with a photo of me and my voice. And I said: "Say something, say whatever you want." So if you receive this, you may be saying: "Capoze, was it you?" What can happen? I know two people you know. Do you know him? Her? Sorry. So you are friends, I take an image of your voice, you have intimacy, friendship, trust, I make myself pass by you and say: "Look, I'm your friend, Maria, I

have a problem here, give me 300 reais, then I'll pay you." But it goes through his PIX, he is the man in the middle, he is the attacker, and he makes it deposit, that's what's happening. That's what's happening. And I'm having more and more problems because how do I manipulate his authority? If the account he sent afterwards... He's a hacker, or a cracker, better said. And he did it in an orange account. So I ask you, who's sleeping in my lecture, almost asleep, I ask, what's the difference between those who have an opinion and those who are experts and those who are not? Read this and answer me. Who knows, who has watched my classes, but what's the difference? You who

are studying criminal law, this is for you. Come on. What's the difference in opinion of who is a expert and who is not? Who said? None? None? There is one or not? None? There is one. No, I'm talking about opinion. Tell me. Do you have a trick? I'm a teacher, I like to trick students. Tell me. Do you know why? Guys, opinion. The glassmaker can give, the pipocher can give, the baker can give, the engineer can give, anyone can give an opinion. Now, are you going to hire me to give you an opinion? I give an opinion in any area of your life, if you want. And for free. In any case, you can buy or not buy,

because opinion has no foundation. And you, to be a expert, need to have a foundation. So how do I have a foundation? Who has done TCC here at school? I'm a TCC advisor, I have to follow the rules of the BNT. The research work, colleagues, I thank you for the attempt to participate, it has to be based on scientific methodology. They started with Hegel, René Descartes, so it's thesis, synthesis and antithesis. What is a characteristic of what you do as a expert? When someone asks: "What do you do as a expert?" "I do science." Why? Because science has a characteristic that doesn't exist in other areas. It has a methodology and it's a provisional truth. Sometimes the egg is good for the heart, sometimes it's bad,

sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. So science works with provisional truths. Capozzi, what if it's not science? It's dogma, it's religion. Believe it, shut your mouth and go on. Don't question it. Science is passive from being questioned. When you stop questioning, it's no longer science. And where do we get in? In civil and criminal processes, the inquiry enters a very well-determined area, which is the area of the production of the evidence, at the right moment. Not at any moment. It's when I need to produce evidence. Here I can act together with the police inquiry, or later in the accusation area with the Public Ministry, with the justice promoter. Or in the civil area, when the judge says: "I don't understand why you're killing each

other here. You're saying the image isn't yours, you're saying it's yours, it's not..." So I'll stop and I'll ask for a trial. I named a expert and that's where we act. Let's understand how the network and AI works. Actually, be it an LLM... Who studied integral differential calculus? Who bombed? Who bombed twice? Now I'm honest with the guys. Who gave up after being bombed? There was no other option. Guys, the idea, without going into the concept, because we're going to talk about intelligence, but it's that everything is a number. In the case of LLMs, it's a little different. You want to have the lowest error rate. But here's the thing. When I train you, and the secret is in training, in training, it's not in the algorithm.

The algorithm is probabilistic, unlike conventional computing, which is deterministic. If 5 is greater than 7, then such and such, if not such and such, isn't that how you learned? The begins and do while, isn't that so? Here, no. I'm going to take probability. What comes next is the word I, probably a verb. I love someone. Nobody says I love chairs. If you train an intelligence to say I love chairs, they'll say: "They're loving chairs, they have four legs, they love them." It will be a bit disconnected from reality. And artificial intelligence sends the issue of numbers. I need to test these numbers. There's a theme from another lecture called "hacking an image". where I change a pixel, who tells

me it's a pixel? You're from the science of computing. What is a pixel? It's an image, red, blue, green. I change a pixel, I can cause a traffic accident. There's an article called "Hacking a Pixel". You start to understand what this AI does. First, when I train, I have to train. Of course, I can give the example of a cat and a dog, but I could put images, images of a woman, images of a man, and I take images of a crime, and start to train the image of that woman, which is my disaffection, or that man in the crime scene. Do you understand? There's a place here, you paid the same to stand up, you can sit down. And whoever sits down has a toast at the

end. I don't know what it is, but there is. You can sit down, feel free. So, what happens? Today we had a problem, something that was solved in that winter of IA, which is the issue of GPUs. Welcome to those who arrived now. So what happens in these issues of GPUs? They have made it possible for you to use these networks to create things with ease and in a very simple time. So I have means and opportunity. If you study criminal history, you have means and opportunity. I have the desire to kill you. You arrived here and now you're going to die. He sat on the chair of the guinea pigs. What happens? I have

this ease. I have the weapon, I have the means, I have the will, etc. So, today, basically, If you look at the amount of IAs you have to produce digital content and to try to work with digital content analysis. Because today we'll have a problem. I'll have to have an IA that does it and an IA that tells me that it was done by another IA. But I also have processes to humanize that. So I create a text, I say: "It's synthetic." "Humanize it." I go to another network and he says: "It looks like a human being." Have you read or at least heard of the 1950 paper by Alan Turing? Can machines think? Today they can. It's not a matter of thinking. But the idea

Alan Turing wanted to bring is: "I don't know if I'm dealing with a human being or a machine anymore." I mean, let's bring this to the trial. I don't know anymore what you produced is synthetic, I can present that WhatsApp conversation and you two are allying to kill a person, or if that is false because I want to put a false crime on you. So, look at the difficulty we are having here. If you enter this IA, it starts giving you tips as if it were a little devil. He is a friend and says: "I'm in the mood to kill someone." "Who? Who are we going to kill today?" "I just don't know how to

hide the corpse." "Wait, I'll tell you how to hide the corpse." Then he will do the following: he will read all the content of that Dexter and will know and explain to you I don't know if you're recording here, but it's like Elisa Matsunaga, how to squander a person and hide it. Guys, I'm talking. The problem is to bury it vertically, I'll have to have equipment, I'll have to have a place. I want ease. If that's an ease, I act. But imagine who lives on the 10th floor of a building, you can't bury it on the lower floor. And... Who gives me these answers? What's your name? Sergio. Sergio, who gives me these answers? Intelligence. Because I'm a layman, I've never killed anyone. I don't know how to hide

a corpse. No, you spoke with experience. I have... Close the door there, say that we have here a possible suspect potential, right? Right? I know how to do it, but I've never done it. I know you cut like this, you cut like that. But, Sérgio, that's it. But where do I get this answer? In the past, I had to have a specialist in the area of health, a surgeon. So much that you look at these older, more nostalgic movies, the psychopath is a guy who is a doctor. That guy from Hannibal, he's a doctor. He knows how to open the guy's head. I don't know how to open anyone's head. In good will, no. I'm

with a torch, and we even use... If you say Kaposi, can you use a little orthodox method? I can. A chair. A medieval one, a takap, these things. But what you said is interesting, Sérgio. Where do I get this information? On the internet. So what do I use? What is the judiciary in doubt about? About all this. I can't give any more subsidies. In the past, the weapon of crime was a knife that I put in a custody bag, I did an analysis and I did a correspondence. Okay, the size of the perforation is the size of the knife, the blade's blade. That's it. So that's the weapon of crime. Today I don't have that

anymore. It's not that easy. So, you wanted to take a picture? Sorry, I went too fast. So, what can be done in the real world that can't be done in the virtual world? In the past, let me get another guy here, you who are sitting there, in the past, I would meet you in the elevator, I would offend you, I would offend you, I would offend you, I would offend you, there was no camera, we were just the two of us. Today, I want to go to the internet to offend you. and you go on the internet and say: "How is the right to oblivion?" It's a crime, a crime, a slander, defamation, it's ratified

in the criminal code. How do we deal with this now? How do the law and the jury deal with this? But you say: "No, Capozzi, it wasn't me, it was him who created a profile, I don't know, you want to prove it wasn't you, but deep down it's a disaffection of yours that knows you don't like me, Do you understand how this triangulated relationship works? I ask you: how is the investigation going in this case? It's complicated. Is it easy? No. So, what do we have today to use? Do I have a Swiss carnivore? No. It's a systematic, analogical, contextual and chronic issue. Why? It's like treating a person with a certain disease, but it has several symptoms, you don't know where to act. You

have to apply several drugs, several tests, and then we put some of this information. For example, This idea of Google was taken because you can produce images of children, but they don't understand what child pornography is. They don't know what child pornography is. So I went there, that's what happened, I took a picture of a school with girls, puberty, 15, 16, 17 years old, and then I transform this image and take the clothes off the girls. because I put a naked body on those girls. So, imagine for a teenager how her head looks like seeing her body being exposed on a network. But she doesn't understand intelligence. But if I put on a bikini, She says, "You're not covered. Is that nudity or

not?" I had a case, I had a pornography problem, it's called pedopornography, for those who want to understand the term more technically. So I had to say, "Look, this is not nudity, because you're seeing a girl in a bikini, and you go to the beach, she's wearing a bikini." So, I mean, it's not at the beach, it depends on the context. I remember saying that I have a daughter, and I said: "I'm at the beach, my daughter is sitting, you will have skin, skin with skin, and she will diagnose it. Remember the pixel there? It's skin and skin. Will she interpret it as vulnerable rape? Correct or not? And just one thing, please don't tell

me that when we study a lot, when we do this work, that pedophilia is not a crime, right? You didn't like to hear it. Pedophilia is a disease, it has an acid, it's not a crime. So you don't say: "Pedophilia is a crime." That's wrong. The right one is "vulnerable rape." That's the right legal term. So when someone says: "I was arrested for pedophilia." It's not very correct to say that. Technically, it's not very correct to say that. So, moving on, what is the problem today with working with those tools? Now, pay attention, please, if you're old enough to be my son or daughter, even if you're not, think about it with me. What's the biggest problem we're having today? I can't make inferences with artificial intelligence. In other

words, what do you mean by that, Capozzi? I can't ask, I can't treat. I have a phobia between people and I take it to artificial intelligence. Did you get it or not? Let me explain it better. When I take a fact from a scene, from a problem that I contextualized, from a deepfake, I can't analyze without an artificial intelligence tool. But what do I ask for artificial intelligence? "Is that false?" "What do you mean by false?" It will travel slowly. It goes what we can call hallucinating. You've heard the term "intelligence hallucination". What is the problem here that I want you to notice? We, in a generalized way, a society of tiredness, for those who have heard this, we have a conversation problem. and I can't

talk to any human being and I can't talk to a machine anymore because I have this false perception. So I need to understand a sentence. So Juquinha took the glass. That's what I'm going to transform into intelligence to tell me what are the probatory elements of a certain deepfake. Here, for example, cases where I worked and I'm bringing it here, we've already collected, preserved, the safe is nice, but when you collect, you need to understand what you're going to show. So I tell him here, how does he identify that this is a fuse? How does he identify? I need to train him first. How does it identify... This is an operation with the militiamen in Rio de Janeiro. How do we bring this? If you don't give me

information, I'll have the problem of false positives. So, same thing there, conversation. I need to know what vulgar is. I need to teach the intelligence what vulgar is, what is "alcunha", have you ever heard the term "alcunha"? Called by the nickname. How does a rascal talk to another? "Hey, buddy", "hey, dad". I need to understand this language so that later I know that what they are saying is something criminal. You understand? Criminalistic, now I'm talking about criminology. It's understanding the mind of the guy to know How did he do that? What are the operating modes? Here is where intelligence helps me. For example, it can tell me that a certain signature was tried to be

forged. There, the pixels' relationship, once again, that wasn't in his hands. Here, editing metadata of an undetermined image, this is the wife of that actor John Depp, I got this from the internet, Johnny Depp, she had the editing of this image, so I can blur the eye and make it look like she suffered domestic violence. I'm not saying there's no domestic violence, I'm just saying we have to work for justice. Here's the same thing. Look how we bring this idea of learning. I took this picture on the internet because it's very interesting. Today, artificial intelligence has a difficulty in meeting the extremes: ears, hands, feet. If you look here, it's not very good at creating.

It creates a person with six fingers. There is a syndrome where you can have more than five fingers, but it's an exception. And the artificial intelligence still can't have that. For example, when I upload that image to another intelligence, it's all free, it's all on the internet. It gives me a perception that that person is a celebrity. because she compared it to others and said that it was really a celebrity. Now, when I, who am not a celebrity, I want to say that this image is synthetic or not. And it's really a synthetic image. So it gives me all the specific elements that I take to the schedule. And I say, "Look, this is synthetic. This is a synthetic content." There's a great tendency that this was produced synthetically.

And I can also make the correlation of other people from where he took that information, right? So where did he get that information? Who is the correlational? You see that he brings me as a possible person who wears a mustache, right? This is interesting. I don't wear a mustache, but he brought me there. So, it's a relationship of hers because the proper training was missing. So, when I bring it here for a final part, it gives me a correlation in percentage terms of who that person is, if she exists or not in the natural world where she was created. And, consequently, if I take it to the judge that she was created, everything she's saying

has no value. Why? Are you going to arrest this avatar? "Stay stuck!" "Let's get the Avatar!" You can't do that, guys. So, basically, these are the points. And here, for example, another item brought to the same colleague. He says: "This guy is not a celebrity." She could put it below: "He's a nobody." That's what she says. It's not someone of relevance. But she's not saying the answer I want, if he's human or not. Same thing, when I go up here, he says, I don't know if this is blood. I just know this is a red respingo, which is a red color. So it's here. Once again, it's an analysis we can make. Other points. This one, quickly, I'm running out of time, this one is

interesting for you to understand. This is a case where there was domestic violence, in this case, the presentation was very bad, where a child, One of the parents, father and mother, he wrote a letter to be presented to the judge. And the letter was written by the child, because the letter was from the child. But what analysis did we do? Wait a minute, this child is putting elements in this letter that are elements that a child of her age doesn't know. Like, quote, "My father" opens quotes, "beat me", close quotes. Children don't write like that. So, with elements of A, we managed to bring that that child could not be the intellectual author of that message. I'm finishing here, people.

Verification of images about frauds and proofs of PICs, loans, unlawful loans, is what we have the most today. So we can raise that the photos were not taken at the time of the loan contract, but at other times. I put it in the dossier and say, this photo of yours here, I'm going to take it and put it in the dossier saying that you're hiring a loan of R$ 20,000 from Banco X. But that photo I took at B-Side. No, it doesn't matter. Let's prove it without judgment. These are the problems we're facing. In addition to videos and voice, I can see where the insertion of the elements created synthetically is. In the audio issue, too, for the identification of speakers, because I take a voice

and confront it with the questioned voice, so there's the proof and the confrontation. I also bring these elements here. And I'll close Even because the guy said that if I don't leave, he'll lock us in here. So, the future of forensic computing is: do we have a future? I don't know. Logically, more and more, technology has something very important. It advances Society advances in the background, because today... Does anyone have an analog cell phone? A Nextel, that motorbike? No one else has it. So you've advanced. But the law is 20, 30, 10 years late. It's the same thing I said. Did you know there's a law that prohibits taking a ride? You don't even know what bond is. Where do you run the bond? There's

no bond. That's it. So you can understand how we have this anachronism here. And then I leave open here forensic tools that use IA. Basically, I bring just one observation. When you're not a expert, If you try to do something that is done by an expert in the field of forensic, you may have problems like this, trying to do the probatory procedure and end up damaging or contaminating the evidence. So, basically, this is the penultimate slide. Without the lawyer, you have no justice. Anyone else is a lawyer here? No? So I can't speak ill of lawyers. Are you a lawyer? I can't speak ill of lawyers anymore. "You ruined it, you were going to get down on the guys." Wow, lawyers are a good

race, right? A cool race. I usually joke about this, right? I'm going to say something, please don't get offended. The other day a guy came to me and said, "Hi, you're recording, right?" The guy came and said: "Advogado, to me, is like Ratazana and Grigori." I said: "No, I define the Ratazana class, not the party." The Ratazanas have ethics, they have behavior. Jokes aside, I say it because I'm also an advocate. So, without an advocate you have no justice, and without the inquiry you have no truth. Guys, I thank you. Where's the guy with the sign? He thought I wasn't going to finish. He bet with me. I said, I'll finish at this time. Guys, I wanted to thank you. And I congratulate you

because you chose to be here today, you opened your hands to be elsewhere, you chose to be learning and doing something else in your life. So, congratulations to you, thank you very much. If you need, I'm from APECOF, Association of Experts in Forensic Computing, if you want to understand a little more what our entity does, I'm the vice-director of the OAB's investigation committee in São Paulo. If you want to participate in this committee, it's open to anyone, even if you're not a lawyer. I thank you. Can I open it to three questions? Open that box, please. Quickly. No, sir. Today, is it obligatory to present your obligation to the editorial board? Not necessarily, but it's good. the question is fundamental

not necessarily if the other part in the argument and falsification you have you have the proof so it's a pen I have three pens here pen from the next question there lawyer you don't know if I answer speak yes Both are being widely accepted. But with Verifact, you have to do something online. If you say, "I want to test the machine," you have to dismantle the machine. It has to be a tableau taking pictures. Verifact wouldn't answer that. It has the same probatory value. Next question. Iron Man, the guy has good taste. Speak, my friend. Well... Several. The last question here from Colete. If there is association, if there is a case. Yes, and you have to take

this to the judge, because your court is inconclusive. Look, I'm not a guru, I'm not a chiromantic, I'm going to make you read there in the coffee pot. There are no elements to prove it. Do you know how many crimes in the state of São Paulo are solved? Crimes? I have this statistics from a few years ago, but let's bring it to today: 8%. In the rest of the country, in other states, it's 3%. So, out of every 100 crimes, 8% you solve. What is solving a crime, Capozzi? It's identifying the author. It was Sérgio. With conviction, it was Sérgio. You're sitting in the wrong place, Sérgio. No way. You made a question that complicates me. What

we can say, without a doubt... He asked... Three or four weeks ago... Sorry, what's your name? He's exposed. There are a lot of things. We know one thing. I'll tell you something. A month ago, there was a fatal accident in São Caetano do Sul. A car killed two 18-year-old girls. TV Record went to my office and asked me to do a speed analysis. I was very clear to her. First, she sent the image by WhatsApp. "I'll get where you want." Second, I did the calculation. Who understands a little bit of... It's the formula of the average speed. I went in there, researched the size of the motorcycle box, and I came to the conclusion that the car was between 65

and 70 per hour. But when you do this, 70 per hour, the impact speed, force, mass, acceleration, We are in newtons, I converted it into kilograms, into kilos, with an impact of almost 5 tons, taking a car of 1 ton. What happened? As that is a call, like, we have to screw someone, then it goes to the media. If you take someone who has suffered domestic violence, and I'm not in favor, I'm just talking didatically, this individual is a man, he's straight, white, Caucasian, the repercussion in the media is much greater if it's... Do you want to see a case? If you see those two guys, those two actors who fought there, because the skin

color doesn't have much repercussion. We don't have much of this culture. When I go to the trial, it happens because the lawyer asks, and I won't go into the merits here, because it's a pain in the neck, but he wants to put the person he's defending as a minority in a vulnerable situation, trying to justify why he did that. Like, being accused is like being persecuted, not by the act, but by your skin color, your sexual option, your soccer team, you like Iron Maiden, I don't like it, you know? So, I tell you this, and I feel it in my skin, and it happens. Then the guy doesn't need to be a celebrity. You just

need to be someone who is said to be an oppressor and that the victim may be a vulnerable minority. It doesn't matter. I'll execute you first, even if you don't have it. So this is a problem that the inquiry faces. This is a fact, I can tell you here, without quoting examples, so as not to extend the answer. Right? Guys, are you okay? Satisfied with your question? Any more questions? The last question, then. To finish, the guy said that the snack will be distributed there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Are you from the health area? If I said bullshit, correct me. I don't have a problem. Please. It's just to complement the information.

When I was in the hospital... The pedophilic disorder, the statistical diagnostic manual, DSM, is used a lot by psychiatry, most psychiatrists, which is a kind of manual that says about the diagnostic criteria. So from there you will diagnose. Besides it, there is the CID-10, but in general, psychiatry is a book, a work that came up in the United States, with the purpose of financing the health service, but which is now used as a kind of bible, to diagnose mental disorders. Among them, the pedophilic disorder, or pedophilia, says that the disorder is one of the main criteria of people who have sexual relations, who feel pleasure only with children, teenagers, people who are younger. This is

the disorder. However, there is not only the disorder, there is the pedophilic behavior who is the one who, besides these vulnerable, also has sexual relations with older people. But both of them are in the crime of rape of vulnerable people. Thank you very much. Very well clarified. Applause for him. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Guys, I wanted to thank you all. Thank you very much for the explanation. and look I can we will have the raffle of the gifts there if we have to be present there but I wanted to thank you very much if you want I'll leave a card here whoever wants to narrow the relationship with me please feel free, I don't charge for anything, the

more friends I make, the better. But it's very interesting, and I'll give you one last tip, if you want to go to this area, it's multidisciplinary, you have to understand a lot about the human mind, I get a lot of cases of child pornography, and I have a daughter, and I know what it is, and sometimes I have to defend the guy, but it's not that I defend his attitude, I defend the technical issue, the Thor network, the Onion there. I mean, because you have in the ECO, sharing, storage, I have to tell him that he didn't produce. So the penalty is lower, but he's a sick person, he's a consumer. And I know the guy is, because when I ask him, he stays quiet. I say, "You

did it, right?" "I don't know if I did it." "You don't know if you did it?" But you have to wear the professionalism badge, because I'm hired to explain to the judge that what he did is a type of crime. And I think it's fair, because otherwise, why would I kill the guy? Because in the ECA, you have to store, advertise, produce, etc. I mean that he only stored, that he didn't produce, so the penalty is lower, but he's a sick guy. right guys thank you he's raising the sign who wants to please I I