Red Flags Or Reasonable Requests? Inclusive Risk Management In Cyber Teams - Lucy Smith

So, it's all uphill from here. >> Thank you. Yes, it's very much uphill from here. Thank you for sticking around. Thank you for waiting until 4:00. I'm assuming most of you are waiting for the after party to go to the student union bar after this. Hands up if you are. >> Okay. All right. I know my audience now. I know my audience. Okay. Um, some of the things I'm going to do, I'm going to ask for a bit of audience interaction. And because I'm trying to model uh facilitation and talking techniques that help with people who might be more introverted, who might not want to perhaps speak, I use Slido. So, we have a QR code on this page, but I also have

it on the next page. You are not obligated to join in with Slider, but I might actually ask people to talk if you don't use the slider. Okay, we have a couple of questions. I don't keep anybody's data. I'm not interested in any of that. You're it's all anonymous. Um, but it helps to get a bit of interaction from this session. Um, to to use that and it all comes up on screen and it all looks quite fancy and technological and then I look really cool. Yeah. Um, so with that little bit of tech out the way, if you want me to put the slide back up again, let me know and I'll do that. I thought I'd start

because most of you in this room probably have never met me before and have probably never even heard of me before. I'll just put the slider up just in case. Um, you might not have heard of me before. And so my my slide in a moment is who the Do we have any children in the audience? I'm just scing. Who the is Lucy Smith? Who am I? Okay. Right. Let's give let's give you a bit of an intro why I've ended up here. So, I did a tour last year and I was in track two. Okay. So, I've been upgraded. >> Congratulations on the promotion. >> Thank you. I love you. >> I feel I'm also that's talk of the day.

My goodness, you've hung around for it. So you can call it a closing keynote if you want. Just saying. I know you've got a raffle coming up, but hey, I'm here. So who am I? All right. I found an organization which is based in South Cross. In fact, it's just literally 10 minutes away called inclusive age. We talk about building the future of work with neurodyiversity in mind all day, every day. Don't be one of my team. to anybody who will listen. It just so happens you are here to listen. >> Just saying. >> I want to listen. Actually, >> even if you don't want to listen, you can have a little sleep. All right, it's

fine. Okay, I'll let you do that. Um, I don't pick on you. I promise. Um, I talk about neurodyiversity a lot. So much so that I've gotten to a place where people call me a neurodyiversity expert. Um, I was also somebody who worked for 16 years in intelligence, uh, human intelligence investigation law enforcement. So, the last talk you just had from the regional crime study unit, I probably got the C's run wrong way. Um, I used to work for the National Crime Agency. And so, all over stuff around things like social engineering, human intelligence, understanding, uh, that world of um, chase. Anybody heard of that phrase ch? If you've watched Line of Duty, you might have heard of

it. Yeah, I can see at least one odd uh cover human intelligence sources. So, I have a background in that. All right, but that's not what I'm here to talk to you about today. I use that to inform a lot of the stuff I talk about. Um, and also done some work around international leadership and training for different organizations. That's that's the boring part. Okay. The most interesting part about me and my history. I was once a professional fairy. Just saying. All right. Just saying. And working with Did I >> Did I get the S? >> No. >> You quit being a fairy. >> Yes. I quit being a fairy because I need to go and do law enforcement stuff. I

see. You had a different calling. >> I had a different calling. Okay. So, yeah, that's that's just one of the little things about me. Enough about me. All right, we've got about another 30 minutes left to talk about this topic. Um, red flags or reasonable adjustments. One of the first things I wanted to say today is it's not another neurodyiversity awareness session. >> How many of you have been to a neurodyiversity awareness session maybe in the last 12 months? >> Okay, I'm not going to do that today. I'm going to take it a bit deeper. In fact, I'm probably going to take it a lot deeper. That by the end of this, you're going to Can I go back to the

awareness session? That was a lot less stressful. That was a lot less pain. We're going to take it a bit deeper and talk about the things that we can do in our organizations um to manage risk. Okay, I've heard a few of the tools today and risk mitigation, risk management, whatever you want to call it is probably the main theme aside right now and I'm going to talk to you about that people management side of it. So managing risks in terms of people, but I am going to do it through a lens of neurode divergence and neurodiversity. Okay. So we're going to have four kind of sections to what we're going to do. We're going to do why this

and why now? Why bother? Yeah. Uh we're going to look at from awareness action. So from that level of hey, we're aware of this. We know it's a thing, but what are we actually going to do about it? So much so that I hope on Monday when you get back to the offices, you actually go, I went this talk last week and I'd like to do some things that Lucy talked about. I'll talk about some real cases some uh very recent employment tribunal. Does anybody here work or have worked for Rogue Man Industries? Just saying. Good. Okay, I can do that talk. That's fine. Um and then we'll talk about this thing risk controls for people cuz I'm

going to start using a different language when it comes to reasonable adjustments and I'm not going to talk completely in that language of the Equality Act. Anybody heard of the Equality Act? Yes. Thank you. We will have a bit of that, but I'm going to try and use different language for you. So, I say it's not an awareness session for me. Awareness is downloading the manual. All right, we've downloaded the manual. I'm aware that it's there. Now, we've got to install it. I've been working in the area of neurodyiversity now for about 8 years, probably a bit longer actually. And particularly since 2020, there's been a massive growth in people talking about neurody divergence, people

saying, people recognizing, people understanding it a lot more, and we've got lots of awareness stuff that has gone on over the past few years. I think now personally, it's time to start moving to installing that manual, doing something about it, and making the changes. I don't know whether you agree. I hope you blooming will do. But it does mean by doing that we actually have to really think about it and challenge ourselves and think about the way that we operate. So this is my slide out bit. All right, over to you for a few minutes. What does neurodyiversity in cyber mean to you? I don't want any pist. Thank you fro on the bean bags. All right. Just

saying. >> One bean bag. >> There's four bean bags. You're all at the same. Yes. Uh I did do this once and I did it at a college and I had many types of spaghetti came up on my slide and I thought at first, oh that's really cool, something about your brain like spaghetti. Um, and then we've got Can't think of any others that actually say. Um, and I realize they're 10 minutes early, aren't they? Kids, young people, who knows it. Okay, so we've got quite a lot coming up there. Thank you. And if anybody wants to share and doesn't want to put it up on the slideo, doesn't want to use that, please do put

your hand up, just shout at me, whatever, cuz otherwise I'll just keep talking. Okay. So, we've got things like different ways to control cyber risk. Uh finding unique solutions gone small now. Um right, one of the things I I tend to notice about Slido is if a word is big, it means more than one person has put it in potentially sometimes it might not quite work. So, I look normal. And I think in this room in the cyber community in a lot of tech roles neurode divergence and neurodyiversity as a whole is normal and if I was to talk about the difference between neurodyiversity and neurody divergence actually neurodyiversity is talking about all of us. So there's no them in

us. It's actually about understanding what our people, what our teams need and giving them the support to do their jobs really well. The other layer when we're talking about cyber security is about managing risks that can go wrong when we don't have that support in place. So we've got things on there like inclusivity, tapping all resources, different ways to control cyber risk. Uh we got diversity, normal people. It is neurodyiversity is about all of us. Every single one of us in this room fits that that that part of language. When I talk about neurodiversity, some of us will have things that are a little bit different to the to to the norm. Okay? And many of us might have

brains that uh work in an ADHD way, very busy brains, irentive brains, not able to focus brains. We will also have people who are autistic, dyslexic, dyslexic discal discalia. How many of you know, hands up, you know what I mean by dalculia? Good. Okay. But those that don't. Discalculia, dyslexia with numbers. Okay. More and more I'm hearing about people who are recognizing that they are disalcul. Yeah. If you didn't pass your GCSE maths or your children aren't passing their G GCSE mass and they're struggling, they could very well be calcul. Okay? But I'm not here to do that awareness piece today. So I'm not here to do delve into, oh, what does that mean? What does this mean? I'm here to

tell you a bit deeper. remember. So, we've also got things on there like um overthinking, still being misunderstood, unique perspective, finding unique solutions that nobody else thinks of. How much of that do we need in the cyber community? It's massive, isn't it? If we all think in the same way and we all carry on linear thinking, we're not we're not going to beat them. We're not going to get there before they do. We're not going to stop the hack. We're going to stop those things happening. Uh the norm I for detail. Um never switch off. Oh, Becca, I'm just going to >> I say Becca's member of our team. My brain never switches off. Would you say

the same about yours? >> I So I'm the poster child and never switching off. Actually, I'd go that level above. >> Yeah. >> I I don't know that. And those of you in the room that might have experienced that and they switch off it's flipping tiring sometimes and how many bosses have said can you just stop for a bit or how many teammates have gone oh there are much I can't I can't be talking all the time it's it's never switching off sometimes it can be really hard and we've got depths we've got variety differences nonlinear problem problem solving the things you need in people that work in cyber. So, I'm going to move on from

that slide. So, bear with me because I've just got a little bit of a a tweak and do my interview now. There we go. Okay. So, we've done a bit of what do you what do you know or what what are you thinking about this? I'm going to do a bit of talking. Why do we need to talk about this now? Okay. I mentioned that we've had lots of awareness over the past few years. I think we need to start taking things a bit deeper. And I've got some reasons on that. There's a talent shortage. I think I'm right that there's a talent shortage out there. >> No. No. Yes. No. >> There's a recruitment problem. There's

not a talent shortage. We have talent. We're just not invited in. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. There's a recruitment problem, but not a talent shortage because we have talent. We're just not inviting people in. So my language on there is slightly incorrect but same kind of thing. Yeah. Um burnout. How many people will have experienced burnout in this room? Either yourself or seen it in other people. Yeah. Burnout is real. Burnout for people who are neurody divergent can be very different as well because we keep going and we keep going and we keep going. We look okay, but actually inside I've just had to pop two painkillers before starting today because I'm feeling really tired today and I'm

talking at 4:00 in the afternoon. At least it was just painkillers. It wasn't anything else. I did have some Skittles as well. I might start jumping around in a minute or I might come over and get some more Skittles for some more energy in a minute. >> Skittles. >> Wow. is okay. Some of the swag from outside skills. Okay. >> Uh what we've got we've got high stakes. I mean >> I listened to the talk earlier. I was driving in here this morning and I heard Jaguar Land Rover have sent people home and not letting them come back into work because they had a cyber attack. >> Did everybody know that? Yeah, >> I didn't until today.

>> Yeah, >> don't come into a production line for Jaguar Land Rover >> stops. So the the um Rocky guy he's talking about um uh he was talking about case where they had a production line where it was not so expensive stuff being done and their production line slowed down and their production line slowed down a bit and then they didn't do anything about it and then a week later production line pretty much stops and then they get ransomware. That was a small case in their eyes. January high stakes. All right, we know you know because you are the people working in this. I'm I'm adjacent to you. All right, I'm not working in tech. I work

in an organization that supports people to understand the people risk. But you know that you're dealing with high stakes. So we need to think about the risk management and the human risk factors. Would you agree that human risk factors are probably one of the number one risks that you're having to deal with in the workplace right now? >> The number one. It does say that on my my notes. But I thought I'm just going to play it easy here. All right. I'm going to play safe and I'm not going to come out and out and say it and then I get told no cuz Gemma will own me. Yeah. Just saying. Gemma from Cold Jamie who

gave me a big up this morning. She's here to pick me up here. Yes. Thank you, Gemma. Good talk. >> Yeah, front row. >> Further forward with the little row. >> So, you'll also find things like HR talking about well-being, managing your health and wellbeing. She'll give you um she'll give you a fruit bowl and um some football. Yeah. Uh there's a lot more that we've got to do. A lot more that we got to do. well-being isn't a nice to have. Um, a quarter of workers according to one report here says say that um work harms their health. A quarter of workers say that work harms their health. We end up then with a problem of productivity.

We end up with errors. We end up with people not turning up, not doing the job that we need them to do. Those kind of things start to happen. And I'm always going to talk about this one because I talk about the future of work. Jenzie, all right, Jenzie, they will purpose in the jobs. They are the talent that we need to bring through and we need to reach them and we need to get them and we need to mold them and take them into our worlds. But they need purpose. This is what they're asking for. They want flexibility and they want decent snacks, right? To be fair, how many of us want that as well?

I want purpose and flexibility. That's why I do the job I do. That's why I run my own company because I want purpose and flexibility. My other little point on there, the skip button. If we don't operate in a way that they get, they're going to swipe on past if we're not like Netflix and allow them to binge the on boarding section and give them everything that they need to know all up front so that they go, "Yeah, boom, boom, boom. Ready to go. Next one." They're going to go. They're not going to stick with us. Or they're going to they're going to hack it out. They're going to do whatever. Yeah. So, think about think about those reasons.

And Gen Alpha, who are about 15 now, the oldest of Gen Alpha are about 15. They're going to be even more intense because they have literally grown up in that world of social media and in that world of co generation as well. So, I've got another question. All right, this one. What do you think the average global global enterprise data breach will cost in 2024? This comes from some data from IBM. >> Direct or indirect. >> Don't don't pressure me on this. Don't pressure me. >> But I'm getting a good I'm getting a good response there. All right. So my answer >> James was here >> according to this IBM report uh 4.4 million4.4 million

in terms of cost. So my why we need to talk about this I've given you the people I've given you the wellbeing. I've g you cost. Now you know this more than I do. Okay. So for me thinking about that what could be the cheapest risk mitigation looking at your people policies reducing human error under pressure and so I'll bring in you're smiling you can share >> I was just saying thinking get rid of the people >> could be I I'll go it could be but At some point people have got to do something in the process. If we automate it all, don't even get started on that one. I went to a conference last year. I did a

presentation there and the it was another presentation, a very big lecture and it was all about climate change. So it was all about animal um activists. It was it was world actually and they had a particular session about AI. AI is not coming for you. Other people are about that. Oh my god, the intensity of that absolute discussion. The audience literally launched at the presenter who was pro AI and these guys, the audience were not on it. Just saying. Just saying. Um, so yeah, and cost. So Jaguar Land Rover again, having closed down your factory, telling your people that you can't come to work, that's a hell of a cost. Okay. And some of the things I'm going to talk

about in a moment actually don't cost that much. In the big scheme of things, if we think about it, you might invest what 10 10 to 15,000 in a year. That's going to save you a heck of a lot of money. So, here I go delving into my old uh trusty friend, the Equality Act 2010. Okay. So, the equality identity 10 is our frame. For some people, they might not see that way. For some business owners, for some CEOs. Oh, for goodness sake. Got to do equality. Anybody watch Jeremy Clarkson? Clarkson's fun. Few of you. I'll be watching Clarkson's fun. I have a lovehate relationship with that guy. I'm like, no. And I was watching it the other day and he

basically he's looking he was looking at getting his um uh car and uh he was being told he has to have accessible parking spaces and a certain number of them cuz you do when you're building places you have a certain number of accessible parking spaces at which point he looked to his his advisor and kind of went have I got to do equality have I got to do inclusion? Yes, you bloody have Jeremy was would be my answer. So, uh, back to the Equality Act and as you know because I said at the beginning I would talk about neurosity. Neurode divergence may very well come under the definition of a disability. So, somebody with ADHD,

dyslexia dyspraxia um, uh, autism, Tourette's may very well be protected under the Equality Act 2010. We need to know this stuff. So, a disability is defined as a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on a person's ability to carry out normal dayto-day activities. Where in that definition, where in that statement does it say you need to have a medical diagnosis? >> It doesn't. >> It doesn't. Do you need a letter from Hogwarts to get some support? That's sometimes what it feels like because sometimes you go to HR, you might go to your manager and I've got ADHD. Okay. And yeah, I need evidence. Can you get your medical reports? Can you go get

this? Get that? Get whatever. We don't need it. Okay. But as employers, we need to think about reasonable adjustments. And this is what I start to call risk controls. So this is about risk controls for humans, for people. Okay. Our reasonable adjustments. Employers have a duty to make reasonable adjustments to make sure disabled people are not keywords substantially disadvantaged. So don't get me wrong, you can be a little bit disadvantaged, but not substantially disadvantaged compared to those who are not disabled. A bit vague, I'll say, but it does give you something to work on. Do you think that there is a definition for reasonable adjustments? No, there is no single definition for reasonable adjustment. So some human or

if we could put it into AI could come up with a matrix that says that's reasonable, that's not reasonable. Do we apply that across the board to everybody? So everybody that has ADHD, it's reasonable that you have noise cancelling headphones. No. We have to look at a number of things the case. One of them being the individual. So the person that we're working with, what is their actual need? Just because they're autistic does not mean you have to give them noise cancelling headphones and a quiet place to work. That might not work for them to be quite honest with you. You need to think and look at individuals for what what's going on with them. You have to

look at things like will it be an effective adjustment? Will it be an effective risk control? health and safety. If health and safety impacts the individual or does that work with them, it ain't reasonable. Okay? So, we need to put health and safety first. It trumps the Equality Act every time. If we're going to make people feel ill or we're going to put people in danger, it's not going to be reasonable. They've got things like the practibility of make adjustments. Changing all the chairs in office to bean bags, for instance, it's probably not going to be practical. all comfortable for everybody who knows um affordability and cost any potential disruption and the size and resources of the employer. So if you're

a teen tiny employer like me, I'm not going to be held to the same account as Marks and Spencer or as a UEIE as a training provider as a as a um university. I'm not held to that same level because I can't afford to put everything in place. So, there's a whole load of things that we need to think about. The context really, really matters. So, we'll go through these in a second. I'm going to ask you, do you think these are risky or reasonable requests? Cameras off in meetings. Would we agree that or would we say no? >> It depends. >> It depends >> because if you are trying to prevent a North Korean person for joining your

company >> M >> then there's um particular reason for wanting the camera on. >> Yeah. >> So you need to address that reason somehow in advance. >> Yep. Like that. But if you know that your employee has asked for that request, you think it's miserable. >> Yes. >> I find it really hard because I can't always return a voice. >> Okay. It is hard sometimes when you can't see somebody. It's hard to go actually what what do they mean by that? Because most people aren't explicit in their language, are they? When people talk, we we talk around in circles sometimes. We're like, you know what I mean? Yeah. No, I don't know what you mean. Could you please explain it to me?

And if you haven't got your cameras on, you end up living in a world of inferred and implied knowledge. So I get it. Yeah. Yes. >> A manager in he was interviewing somebody remotely camera on >> they could see that the person was like looking there's twisted and somebody googling >> typing and googling the answers >> looking. Yes. So those kind of things happen. So you do need to think about why do I need a camera on? Is it necessary? Is it to mitigate the risk or can I allow people to not have cameras on when I deliver online events? Can I we will say cameras on or off? We don't care basically because I'm not looking at you. But I

don't have that risk element in in role that I'm delivering. Um I certainly know for instance uh driver awareness sessions you know if you get if you if you've done speeding and you get the opportunity to do a course rather than take the points and the okay fine um you have to have your cameras on the whole time because for them they're saying you could disappear and it's not you bear with me while I while I managed to cough. So that's cameras, written instructions instead of verbal instructions. What do you think? >> Reasonable. >> Reasonable. >> More than reasonable. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because some people might have auditory processing challenges. And so just being able to listen and

remember everything, you're probably going to go out of that room and go, I've got a clue. She said, "Can't remember anything." Becca, you put your hand up there. Yes. >> Again, post a child there. Yeah, I remember that. Leave the room completely out of my brain. >> What happened? Yes. >> Last one on this page. Fixed desk in a hot desk area. >> Reasonable. >> Reasonable. Reasonable. But have you ever heard the line, if we do it for you, we've got to do it for everyone? >> That's why I got to wave the big I am security ballot. >> Fair enough. >> This is a lot of points. So one of the points I have on the

bottom there, discomfort does not equal risk. And in so many organizations, I found that a manager who says no to something, it's probably because of their discomfort rather than the actual risk because they don't see it from the other person's point of view. [Music] >> So what happens when we say no? You end up with burnout. That should it isn't that you end up with brain drain or addition. People leave. People say, "I'm out of here. I can't cope with this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore." And you end up with data breaches, challenges, security incidents. Big slide, lots of words, loads of stuff on there. I'm actually going to need to turn around cuz my screen's not big

enough to be able to see it. But some of the things on here in terms of camera off in meetings, um, avoiding team social events, what HR might say or a manager might say is, oh, we need a cultural fit. You're not you're not fit in because you don't come out for the for the team nights. Yeah. Uh, that but what it could be is social anxiety. What it could be is being feeling excluded. And so on there we've got things that it could end up in the potential outcomes resentment reduced morale and leaving voluntary. That's it. That's just one example on that page. Okay. The bit I wanted to talk to you about was a particular case and I mentioned

rope manner research fitted earlier. Like I say, hope there's nobody in the room that actually works for them anymore. Um or or now could a site >> is that discrimination? >> No. >> I don't want to know if it was. >> We might need to have a little chat. Depends on the circumstance. If it's someone being silly, yes. that if I'm coming to you for a reasonable adjustment or I'm trying to talk about something about my disability and you're signing like that instead of I just clicked on the fishing link again fishing link probably an acceptable sign >> yeah if it's always in the same person >> then potentially yes so if you're chatting to say

>> and you're happy chatting away and then I can talk to you when you say I could I can misconrue that >> but if you're just having a general bad day saying at everyone >> oh then it could be having a general bad day I'm right pissed off and yeah yeah pick the cat day so I've got my two on there all right when is a sigh discrimination >> yes >> it's not up to me to decide what you're offended it's up to you to be offended by it >> very much so >> yeah what you saying Yeah. >> However, I'm going to just talk you quickly through this case. Um, so Robert Watson, I'm going to call him Rob. I wanted to

call him Bob, but I felt he's probably not that kind of demographic. That's my stepdad, not Rob. So, we're going to go with Rob. All right. Rob was a systems engineer working at a well-known cyber technology firm. Tada. For a long time, he struggled with focus, consistency, and managing his time. These challenges were not destructive or malicious. They were undiagnosed symptoms of ADHD. Something he was not formally diagnosed with until 2 years later in his job. So at that role in that role he faced a manager who sighed heavily when speaking to him would roll his eyes made comments in front of his colle colleagues like you're becoming a net detriment which I mean that would just be off anyway

or the other one that was told at one point this manager even told him to when can you put your ADHD aside for a moment It's in the tribunal. All right. This is what was said in the tribunal. Can you put your ADHD aside for the moment? How many of you would see that as red flags from the management side of you? Just a few. The employment tribunal uh ruled that this wasn't just poor communication. It was disability harassment and discrimination arising from disability. So I think section 15 and section 16 of the equality that will that will give you a bit of map and a failure to make reasonable adjustments under the equality act.

Does that case give you a bit of food? >> Sounds like >> quite possibly. The guy Rob was on sick leave when he was dismissed. Um he wasn't dismissed for misconduct. He didn't shout. He didn't break policy. He didn't act unprofessionally. He struggled and he was met with size and a lack of support. And that's the point of why I'm here. I know I've got 5 minutes left. This is the first time I've done this talk. There's a lot of information to get through. Just saying. Um, some of the things that might have helped were things like written priorities, telling what his priorities were, helping and supporting with that, coaching would have helped. short check-ins either on a daily basis to

start off with but weekly basis later. Manager tone training. Anybody heard of manager tone training? Basically coaching for managers to help you understand how to support your workforce and looking at adjustments as early as possible. I'm not going to go through that. Uh but I will ask this I will talk through this. Um, sometimes some of the things we might see in workplace are things like direct blunt email or ticket comments. Anybody experience those or do them themselves? Yeah. I once um when I was working in the ACA, I worked in the finance team and I wrote an email in all capitals by accident. I had a grievance taken out on me because I wrote in all capitals.

I had to make apologies to the person who took offense at all my capitals. >> Yeah. >> Did you stop? >> No, I did this. Oh my god. I never realized that was a problem. >> There we go. >> Check your tone. >> I did have to check my tone. I now need to check. I now need know these things. And I am the person that says to other people, try not to rhy. Please don't do that. Anyway, um things like long detailed explanations or info booking. How many of you received an email that's six pages long, but it could have just been four lines? Yes, it we do it right. People do it. And some people might see

that as things like grandstanding or time wasted. I haven't got time for this. But actually, it's likely to be sharing the full context. So, make sure that you get all the information that you need. Yeah. and people will end up tuning out. Details will get lost by all of that kind of stuff. That's just one example on that page that's around um autistic behaviors. The last one on this one is around ADHD behaviors. And I'm going to pick up I'm going to pick up the one at bottom. Many ideas, but we follow through. How many ADHDers in the room have lots of ideas, but we're really at following through and making it happen? Yes. Thank you very

much. Yes, but that might be seen as flaky. That might be seen as loose. Can you just stop for a bit? Uh, and people stop listening to me sometimes. Just Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. I have had that in the past. But it might be that we are likely to be hitting the dopamine when we hit new things and have new ideas. We have that river of ideas. One of the things I have to do is I have to put my ideas on a shelf. I have to leave them on the shelf until it's time to pick them back up again. I will finish in a moment. I promise. So, examples on here. I have got a QR

code at the end in a moment that if you use it, I will send you a free video, but I will also send you my slides that will have these things on there. So, I have just finished up a fourstep model for managers cuz no good talk is worth its soul without giving you a bit of a strategy to go away with. And I did say that I'd love you go away with certain things on Monday that on Monday when you go back into the office you can go here's how we can do things differently. So one recognize and spot barriers. Don't expect your staff to come to you because they're not going to. 80% of

neurodyivergent workers do not disclose and tell people in the workplace yes. >> What if my employees global yes? >> That could be the problem. That's my fault. >> Sometimes it is. Lawyers are the normal ones and we're the ones that need the help. Um, notice when somebody's struggling and ask them, "What support do you need? What kinds?" Don't expect them to come to you and be therefore that they're not performing very well. Ask, don't assume. So, creating that psychologically safe space is really important. It is the biggest challenge I'd say to create that culturally psychologically safe space. In fact, I don't know one organization including my own that has a fully safe space to tell

and share because there will always be some reactions and I cannot control what other people do sometimes. Adjust don't excuse. So make adjustments. Put those reasonable adjustments in place. put those risk controls in place, but it will enable success. But here's one of the points I will make. It doesn't excuse poor behavior, but you have to put some adjustments and controls in place before you can address potentially poor behavior or um I've gone now. That's it now. Two minutes. Two minutes. Yeah. Um you need to put those things in place in order to make sure they can succeed. And the last one, leads don't wait. Normalize this stuff. Talk about it on a daily basis. And again, if you go back

into the office on Monday and the one thing you do is talk about this and say, "Let's make it normal that we have these conversations that I've done. I've done what I need to do." So, we did have We don't have time for questions, I don't think. If you want to stick any on there, we'll see what we can answer. And my last one, why are you see it comes up on that? Why are you? How are you? Yeah. So, would you whoever put why are you is it why are you doing this? Why have you done this? Cuz that's a bit that's not quite so kind. Sometimes that looks like bit blame culture. Just just

saying. But I could be in a spaghetti space here. So, I'm just going to say um if you want a freebie, all right, that QR code will take you a form. You give me your name and your email address and you will get access to a free video which is 10 tips for inclusive recruitment. It's just 11 minutes long and it talks about recruitment and procedures for you. And on that point, if you do if you do contact me via that that um QR code and leave me your name and email, I will also send you your the slides, okay? Which I think are will be quite helpful with the tables that we have. And on that point, I'm finishing.

Thank you. Thank you.