Patrick Perry - Using a HackRF One to Infiltrate the Digital Thetford Wall

the big wall That's somewhere in there's a big wall yeah yeah somewhere in some place walking somebody's view you pretty much just told my talk no I'm sorry I'm sorry so I'm GNA go Patrick uh introduce himself and okay uh good morning everyone my name is Patrick Perry um I'm not nearly as energetic as Ed so might want coffee or uh whatever I'm just not going to be flying around the room uh if anyone wants to come closer there's plenty of open spots up here um before I get started people have been coming up to me asking me what what is the deal with this wall um it's it's a funny story so before I

go too far um I really struggled with coming up with a title for this talk because it's sort of it's a weird it's a weird thing that happened um a lot of things that that happened to me as I've traveled around the country a lot as a as a consultant is people assume that because I'm from New England I speak like I'm from South Boston I don't uh the next thing I would I would mention is I'm not an expert in hack RFS uh but this particular talk uh and what this this whole subject is around there's sort of a lot of different angles to it so I wanted to touch on a few different

things just let it sink in and it all make sense in a few minutes and this is probably my favorite this is the most simple but if I just put this on the talk up front be what the hell is that so like I said my name is Patrick Perry I work for fire ey I'm a systems engineer there uh I work for a guy Chris Sanders here who a lot of you may know uh prior to working for fire eye was I was a special agent with uh DHS out of Boston and while I was a special agent there I specialized in computer crime uh so I had a lot of formal training in

host based forensics so I consider that to be my expertise uh so like I said this hack RF stuff it's fun but I'm a novice at it I'm not an expert in it um it's just a tool I use to to do a job uh somewhere in there I worked on the GE C for a while I bring that up because while I consider my technical expertise to be more in host Bas forensics at GE I specialized on on the CT more in the network side of things and uh I had a very fortunate situation there some of you might know Jack cow uh you might have seen on Twitter in my opinion he's one of the best innocent

responders in the world and uh he sat right next to me there in uh Greater Detroit for three years and I bring that up because it's not a situation that a lot of people that are trying to break into the field find themselves in so I was very fortunate if you're not as fortunate as I was and you're you're looking to learn more about infosec host Bas forensics this this whole field um I I got my uh Masters through James Madison University uh in computer science they have a specialty in infos and it was really excellent it was a good a lot of good foundational skills um just really good program so I would encourage you to check that out if

that's something you're interested or thinking about and finally what I need to say before I really get started here is I understand this is the red team track um I am not a red teamer I am true blue I defense as thing uh I the only hacky thing I've really done here is that I have hack in the title of my talk so I don't want to I don't want to confuse people to what this talks about I didn't do a lot of hacking but I did use a hack RF so bear with me I think you'll think this is interesting nonetheless like I said uh I work for Chris Sanders who wrote this book and I

uh co-author on this book is Jason Smith uh both of those guys were sort of instrumental in what unfolded here to different degrees and you'll learn more about that as we

go all right so I have a really short amount of time to give you a whole lot of information so in math classes that I took you look up answers in the back sometimes and you be like how the heck did they come to this solution I'm going to do the same thing here there's going to be a lot of Miracle steps you just have to go with me on because because I don't have time to get into the details before I go too far we'll see how this plays uh if it seems like I'm parsing words at all while I'm up here it's because I am uh this issue that I'm going to talk

about today is actually playing itself out in a state court in Vermont right now so I need to be careful about what I say um I'm only going to say something I'd be willing to testify to under oath because I realize this is being uh recorded in event that's were ever to become discoverable so uh I'll be honest now the story sort of starts in New Hampshire which is where I'm from the reason it starts there um for one thing in New Hampshire you're indoctrinated very early on to love the Red Sox the second thing on our license plates you'll see everywhere Live Free or Die that's really important uh to me uh and I think a lot of infos folks in general

because uh I think a lot of us have sort of a real libertarian streak and that sort of becomes important in this story as we talk about property rights a little bit but I think you should really be able to do as much as you you want with your own property until the point that you're negatively infecting someone else I'll leave it at that uh so from New Hampshire about five years ago I moved out to Detroit that's where I worked at GE and I only mention that here because I need a way to tell you how the heck does someone end up in fford Vermont it's a small town in the middle of the

nowhere now while I had a pretty good time working at GE the raping the pillaging the uh high unemployment wasn't a place where I wanted to uh to have the kids forever so I wanted to come back to the Northeast where I'm from my wife got a job in in thatford as a teacher um I'm pretty flexible I can work in a lot of places uh remotely so that's how we ended up in thatford it's in East Central Vermont up in New England very quiet small town safe place to raise kids that sort of thing okay now when I get to thatford um it's about 20 minutes from Dartmouth College there's a big hospital there uh property is pretty expensive

more expensive than I was anticipating certainly more expensive than Detroit and I'm looking around at houses and I'm uh I'm going do it yourself I'm like well I can I can buy one of these really expensive houses or I can build my own house so I found some land nice Spot 2 acre lot um pretty farm in the background there here's another picture after we started construction um this Farm in the background becomes a focal point of the story and if you look even closer um within the the red circle up there you can't see it but just on the other side of that mountain or null is a a cell tower okay in Thedford like I

said it's very rural so I don't have dedicated wired internet line I don't have dedicated uh phone line I depend on that that cell tower up there because it has Broadband Wireless so I have a special radio antenna at my house radio modem um that's able to talk that which gets me blazing speeds of about three and a half megabits per second it's only $200 a month though so it's it's a steal and like I said there's the cell tower there so that's how I do my communication but you can't see it it's just over that line and just to show you that uh I didn't build something that is like a I don't think a terrible eyes sore there

it is this is where my story starts to go off the rails so there's a Road between my house and The Neighbor Next Door it's called Sni Bean when I was looking at buying land I had no idea that Sonni Bean was actually named after serial killer in Scotland that's a clue that it might not be where you want to look to buy a house or or build a house in fact you would think I was crazy if I saw Charlie Manson Boulevard said yeah that's where I want to go same sort of idea some of you might remember this guy this is Howard Dean he ran for a president in 2004 he was a long serving

governor of Vermont Howard Dean um you know people have these uh general impression of him a lot of people know him as the IAB the scream or a scream speech where he was very enthusiastic after I think loss in Iowa I see Howard Dean and I think of something different when I see Howard Dean I think of the guy that trounced uh a a lady by the name of Ruth DWI who ran for governor twice in the state and there's there's different political reasons why I think she was trounced but um this is a true story she was running when I was I just finished undergrad School up in Burlington Vermont and well I follow politics I'm

not outwardly like political I'm not uh you know I don't have bumper stickers all over my car I'm not like volunteering at campaigns or anything like that but Ruth DWI to me was a I found her to be very vindictive and very vicious sort of candidate I've never seen anything quite like it so I actually like was going out the day of the election to pick up my friends to make sure they voted because I was that afraid of Ruth dwi's becoming governor of the state and that's true that was back in 2000 or 2002 so here's candidate DWI who ran for governor um this is I think C-SPAN in that same time period okay you can imagine how excited I was

to learn that that red Farmhouse across the street belonged to my new neighbor Ruth dwire and you know so we have political differences whatever didn't think it was a big deal until she decided that she really didn't like me so henceforth this will be known as the fford wall so after having lived there for I don't know about a year or something Ruth erected this 60x 24t monstrosity um I'd like to tell you there's a good reason for it but there's not so we'll just leave it at that um in case you're wondering how it looks from my house this was a Scenic Vista at Christmas time last year from the living room window um the good Folks at NBC decided

you might be interested in seeing how it looks from her side of the wall so there's my eyes sore that she's trying to defend against I can only think of one reason why that's there and I'm sure she can too I'll leave it at that I wanted to come back to Chris and Jason real quick um so Chris Sanders is the thatford wall this is just a fantastic Twitter account um and actually there there's a couple good things here I want to point out with this so first thatford wall used to harass me a little bit um is the way that that Chris does once in a while thatford wall would tweet facts this just made me

sad at Christmas time at Christmas time thatford wall got a little sassy and I I like to to end with with this tweet from Chris or the thatford wall because it really explains how I felt about the situation and how my neighbors other than Ruth felt about the situation so at this point you're probably wondering what the heck does this have to do with a hack well here's what it has to do with it um not my quote what happened is there's obviously things that play here property value things like that right so I go to the town say we've got to do something about this there's no permit that whole sort of issue that you go

through and in doing so I contacted a lawyer now to be clear this is not the lawyer that represents me now in this matter this was someone else i' contacted um that is a real estate property type lawyer and he said Patrick I feel really bad for you I've known Ruth for a very long time and I think she might be one of the worst five people in the world now I go to the meeting uh we have we have a hearing to discuss the wall so I'm there uh Ruth is there and you know I'm telling my side of the story I talk about how you know I have this very tenuous internet connection that I rely on for work if uh

if anything were aever to happen to it I might have to move quickly so it's like this affecting my property value is a big deal to me so Ruth was there while I talked about this and um her General thing and this was a direct quote from her in this hearing is that the wall was the least evil thing she could do so that sort of set the stage for me that's in my mind now this hearing was on a Tuesday night go through the week okay I noticed that weekend there was a strange car at Ruth's uh farm that I hadn't seen before he was there all weekend I wake up uh you know 7:30 or whatever on Monday

morning to to get to work I go to sign on and my uh my internet connection is not working and it was weird because it was like I would start to get the connection but nothing would ever complete um and I couldn't talk out I I couldn't I couldn't hit that uh that cell tower so this was very concerning so fortunately I was able to uh use the the Hotpot with my cell phone to be able to have some sort of even more ghetto internet service uh for work but I had to resolve this issue um so what I first did is I contacted my internet service provider and said hey what's going on here and I

was very fortunate because the guy that uh was the point of contact at this internet service provider he was a guy from the Marine Corps and he had done some work with signals there and he was really knowledgeable so he didn't come out but he was looking um to try and talk to my radio antenna at my house um from the the the cell tower and he says you know I don't know what's going on but you have a ton of interference and he said you know I'm not seeing it in other places this is just at your place uh he said you know I he didn't know what to do but he knew that something was not

right okay so this point um what happened is as an info person I'm kind of Paranoid by default you hate to think that your neighbor is doing something to screw with you this badly but she did build a 60 by 24 foot wall so what I first did at this point is I actually contacted Jason Smith co-author of Chris's book and I contacted Jason immediately because he is very uh I don't know how to explain Jason he's very honest he's brutally honest and I explained to him everything that I've just explained to you I said Jason I need know one I've never dealt with this sort of signals type traffic before like I don't even know what how to begin

to investigate this and I said I'm being crazy like tell me if I'm if I'm wrong to to think this and he said you know I'd be very surprised if she was doing this but he said you know I'd also be very concerned if I was you so he's the one that put me on to the hack RF and said you know this is the information this is the the tool that you need that will at least get get you to the point where you can start to figure out what's going on at your house so I bought a hack RF was about $300 and if uh if you're not familiar with it it's it's a little small device um it

can transmit and receive uh radio waves um it's got three SMA ports uh one you just can plug an antenna into it it hooks up to USB on your computer um the other two SMA ports are just so you can sort of daisy chain multiple hack RF ones together if you wanted to make like a bigger Ray or something um but you can do some really powerful stuff with it and like I said I'm not an expert in a hack RF but I did learn enough about it to sort of investigate in this case so I sort of have to give you some idea of what was was happening here um you can see in the bottom left corner

there that's my house while I was under construction uh Ruth's Farm is across the street this is before the wall was built so you can't see it but it would sort of be in between our buildings zooming out that star is where the cell uh the cell tower is where also the the uh broadband internet signal comes from for me and the the little lightning bolt down in the corner is where I have a utility pole on sort of the high end of my house uh right up in here is the the high point for land on my little lot there so I have a utility pole there where I have my antenna set up to be able to to get this signal and

what you'll see is that like I'm literally going you know right through here for that signal uh to give you another view this is that utility Tower I just uh utility pole I just mentioned next to that red arrow you see that big arm that's my my cell antenna that I rely on um to speak and just to the side of that there's a little box right there and that's my radio antenna so the uh internet service provider actually controls that I can't log on to that or anything um it's an Aros uh radio antenna and it's sort of a neat little thing if you've never seen one before okay so I was interested in the

2.4 gigahertz range and the reason I was interested in that is because as I pointed out earlier that cell tower that has the uh my isp's equipment on it um you can't see that from my house and if I could see it it was straight line of sight they would have given me 5 GHz equipment um but because there's some tree cover there the 2.4 GHz um signal is better able to cut through that range and another point I'll just make here is that uh in the 2.4 gigahertz range in the US anyways that sort of split up into 11 channels that we use um all just slightly different frequency so you can put different devices on

there and to avoid conflicts now at this point I'm thinking that there's some sort of jamming operation going on potentially um you know this thing persisted for weeks um so I wanted to point out to to anyone that has a high carf or is thinking about getting one that jamming signals like this is illegal if that's in fact what's going on um this is just laws that support that so serious seriously be care careful if you get a hack RF not to uh not to break the law because there are serious penalties for it $166,000 fine for each day um that you're violating this so at this point now that I'm familiar with the law

I'm thinking to myself this is great because I don't even care about the fines I want a felony conviction right I want I want this ended so I have the hack RF and um without going into a huge amount of detail there's a really nice uh ISO uh I use pentu which is a Debian flavor uh to be able to run this stuff that I'm going to show you first thing I did on that um once you plug in the device to the computer you just Run hack RF info and it tells you okay hack RF uh is found so that's good We're Off to the Races um I will say here that if you

have that ISO you really don't want to run it through a VM because of I guess the latency and some processing issues as it's going through the bus um to that VM it just doesn't keep up with capturing the signal as well as you need it to so I installed this on a bootable thumb drive um it was a little tricky with my Mac I had to do some hacking of the uh of the bootloader to get it to work but I finally did and it worked really well so how do you interface with this well this is what we call in the hack RF world this is the uh uh this is the hello world of softwar

defined radio so this was uh using help from uh Great Scott gadgets.com the guy who's sort of the the the father of all this Michael Osman has several excellent videos on how to do this stuff use this stuff so this is what how I ended up uh doing this and what I'm using here for a program is called new uh G radio companion and what that is it's it's a front end for gnu radio um which is sort of like a framework in C++ and python uh to be able to interface with your hack RF and what's cool about it is on the right you have all these different options you can do for the hacker up

these different modules so you're literally building um a program out of just these blocks of code that you're sort of dragging and dropping and like I said I don't have time to go into the the nitty-gritty details here but up at the top that's your most basic thing that's your your osmocon uh source and that's sort of like middleware to be able to integrate with the the hack RF and G radio uh a couple things I'll just point out when you go through this you can set variables which becomes really handy when you're trying to like thinking about changing frequencies and that sort of things so those will carry on throughout this this whole thing these

sliders here um audio gain is allows me to control the volume uh channel frequency slider allows me to change the the channel um what else do we have and like in this particular case like I said this is for a simple FM tuner so I've got a a WB FM receive doing some different math tricks to make it more clear and that feeds to my uh my sound card but all this stuff was just drag and dropped from over here and then I'm just changing the variables so it's really simple um you just need sort of a guide to go through this and grad Scot gadgets.com is is really great so that will produce this when you run it this

is just a simple FM tuner so what you get is um you see these different they signals that we're detecting okay and this is all in your standard FM radio range from like 88 to 107 uh megahertz and you see wherever we have a high point you know we're picking up a pretty strong radio signal there so we can literally listen to the radio on our on our computer now I needed to know what would it look like if my uh what would it look like if my uh my router my radio antenna was getting jammed so I found this and essentially from all the research that I've done now mind you one it's illegal

to jam so I can't really do this and two I only had one hack RF so I couldn't jam and then detect and see what it looked like but the most consistent thing I found is that I would see like a flooding of the whole Spectrum there of that that 2.4 GHz and this will be more clear in a minute but like if I go back so you know we have this signal that you can see very clearly defined interesting points here it's just a flood so I was sort of looking for something like that in the 2.4 gahz band so that's good but there's way too many variables still to figure out what's going on um fcc.gov

is pretty cool because any device you have that has some sort of radio accessory has what's called an CC ID so you can take that put it into fcc.gov or fcc.io which is uh more simple to use and it will give you a bunch of manuals back um that are gerain to that specific device and that's really helpful when you're trying to do analysis like this so for instance and Michael Osman does the same thing on his site um but what I did here is I was curious about my own uh garage door opener and I wanted to see what I could get as like a test so this they uh at FCC .gv they had the

internal view of what my garage door opener looks like they have manuals for my garage door opener they have schematics like this uh very detailed a pro tip here is if you print out schematics like this and you take a hackrf onto an airplane you will get transferred to the line where they want to talk to you more um and they also show you what the frequency should look like for these different devices this is actually um for my wireless router so I was curious about what that should look like as well okay so now that you have a very high level of how that sort of works this is what I did in my case where I'm

just trying to look at the 2.4 gigahertz range so we don't really care about this stuff down here this was just me messing around with stuff trying to do cool things but all I really care about is this guy and this guy here's my osbo Source again so just a way to integrate with the hack RF and here with my fft sync fft is fast for your transform so if you've never taken Cal three or differential equations it's it's there so we don't need to go there but that's just what it is um and what I'm doing essentially is I'm feeding the signal and like I said I got my variables here so I set my slider

default values 2.4 37 GHz I think that's right at Channel 6 maybe um this is an important one your sample rate so in this case I have it set at five Meg and what that means is I can focus on a piece of the spectrum that's that's five Meg uh wide and I'll show you how that looks so to sort of give you an understanding of what normal should look like this is 2412 gahz you can see up here so that's channel one and in this case I tested it in a place where there was nothing going on okay okay so you just get this this is static there's there's nothing happening here this thing that's popped up in the middle

there that's just sort of an anomaly um I think it's happening because some sort of division by zero so we just ignore that and like I said roll with it it's nothing um this green line is What's called the peak hold oops that's the peak hold okay so as this noise is happening here it's just recording the maximum um amplitude of that frequency and that's helpful when you're trying to do analysis because sometimes you'll see you know things are just bouncing all over the place just be able to really look at it and analyze it having something that holds that Peak or that maximum value is really useful so this is a quiet day nothing happening on

channel one now this was interesting um because it was a test I did again to to figure out more what's going on here and how it looked and how it worked um but we've we got our 5 Meg sort of uh range here from 2.5 to 2.5 and this is Channel 10 maybe channel channel 11 I think and what I had on this case was my Wi-Fi router and you can see this is the signal I was seeing and this is why that Peak hold is so important when you're trying to look at this stuff this is what I pulled from the fcc's website now it's a little bit skewed um just because of the numbers

and such but if you crunch this bottom one up you see you almost start to get a little M here and this was the only thing in my uh in my 2.4 gahz range that I saw that was remotely close so I knew okay this is definitely my Wi-Fi router I also knew that because I had my Wi-Fi router set to this channel so it was a good test um to see that this worked as it should work at this point there's still a lot of stuff a lot of variables a lot of unknowns that I need to figure out so when searching around through my my different signals I was really curious about this

one and I think this is Channel 10 what I learned about this signal sort of looked almost a sign soil with a little hiccup here right but it's a very distinct signal and what that is it turns out is this is actually my radio antenna that was up on the the telephone pole it's okay cool I'm starting to identify things on my network I thought to myself well I can't control the radio antenna because I can't log on to that but I can manually adjust the channel on my Wi-Fi router so what happens if I do both so I set my Wi-Fi router to channel 10 and what happened immediately is you have all this noise that occurs and

after four or five second actually what immediately happens is the Wi-Fi router stops working sorry the radio antenna loses its signal to the Tower and it's sort of dead for four or five seconds and in that time it starts looking other channel that doesn't have interference that it can connect on so it sort of moves itself to a non-cluttered channel so I couldn't really visualize what's going on here so this is sort of the best analogy I could think of to explain it because I figured out very quickly from here on what was going on and what was going on is I had a lot of devices on my network um I think I had eight of the 11 channels

occupied by something and what happened is that that Monday morning where my internet stopped working by happen stance a different neighbor decided to start using a chomecast so what happened with this chomecast and the other key piece of information is that my wireless router and the radio uh antenna they were both on auto Channel mode so what would happen is when that chomecast would come online it would grab an open frequency an open Channel it just so happened that in doing so it caused either my wireless router or the radio antenna to change channels and to immediately interfere with each other the problem is one of them didn't just leave and go to so now

I have two open channels because that extra chomecast that's out there has left me with two channels so what would happen is I have my wireless router and the radio antenna competing for one channel just as one gives up and like okay I'm going to go to this channel the other device said at the same time I'm going to go look for a new channel so it was this constant fighting between these two viices two devices every time my other neighbor was using chomecast so in some ways this was nice to know um I still felt bad that I didn't get the felony conviction that I wanted because I still have this stupid wall to deal with um but at the end of

the day Ruth has her fford wall I have the digital fford wall right here so I was able to fix that but in doing so there's still a lot of other aspects of this story that I wanted to share because they're things that not everyone um I guess in our field deals with every day and one of those is the media so I've been really for the last year under a spotlight with the media and I don't particular care for it but there are things that I learned that I think sort of important to our field um so we'll start with the good Valley News was sort of the local newspaper there that first started this

story and what I liked about that is there was a reporter that came out she talked to me she seemed genuinely interested in what was going on there with the fford wall so it's sort of able to tell my story um and we had good conversation and she would interpret that into the stuff that she wrote uh at the end there this is something I just noticed the other day when I was Googling but this guy out of Washington wrote this story and I I like the title um but what's good about it is that if you read his story he was able to sort of sift through the noise and make sense of what was actually

happening there the bad I would say is uh just TV journalism in general was pretty terrible so it started with uh CBS came out to interview me and the interview with CBS went like they actually scheduled something with Ruth and they show up unannounced to me and they gave me you know 30 seconds to tell my side of the story and there's a lot of layers to this and they just wanted you know to feed the hype machine and you have someone that was almost governor of the state so it's very controversial they didn't care about what was actually going on in my opinion they cared about ratings and no one's surprised by this but what becomes

frustrating is you know they have their piece which is based a lot on just what she says because she's the focus of the story and it gets picked up by NBC and it gets picked up by New England cable news and it gets picked up by Daily Mail in London it gets picked up by ABC and it was in Atlanta Arizona California it's been all over the country it's been all over the world and you keep saying the same story that was in the uh TV media and it doesn't square with reality it's very skewed to what what she had to say because no one ever really cared what my side of the story was because

I'm not going to sell newspapers like Ruth is um I'll end with the ugly so one of the the the first time I was aware that this was picked up by the national media was when disappeared on like a Saturday morning on Fox and Friends with this Tucker Carlson and uh if you watch that story it's really interesting because they interviewed Ruth they didn't talk to anyone from the town they certainly didn't talk to me but it was a total hit job on me and my family in my opinion about what was going on there and how we're Outsiders disturbing poor ruths animals and all these things and it just wasn't true now at this point Ruth has sort of

changed her story from all these reasons why she built the wall to my kids are bothering her animals when they play basketball so I just wanted to show you what true evil looks like and the reason why I think this is so important for our field there's so many things going on right now that's in the news um there's so many policies that you hear discussion around if you're talking about cispa or dmca or the cfaa all these things are important and we have so many people in the news talking about it that have no idea what they talking about and I know you guys have all experienced that when you watch the news especially with something

related to cyber crime and you hear a story you're like it's terrible like that does not square with reality and I think it's important that for people in this room people in our field anytime you have a chance to tell your story about you know attacking a system or defending uh a network you need to do it because people need to hear from people that actually have the facts and the truth and the media they want a good story but they don't care so much about the truth so it's really important um to be calm and be persistent and keep getting your story out as it pertains to uh information security and keep keep doing what you're

doing now I just have a couple of minutes here but one of the things that came out of this for me and like I said I'm a I'm a blue teamer so I was curious in using the hackrf defensively so one of the things I did was uh I was curious about some work that was done at uh blackout Devcon uh where there was an attack demonstrated on on using a hack RF to be able to essentially steal someone's garage door opener um login code so what I think is is cool is that this sort of stuff is being talked about but where I want to see the conversation change is that as I learned in going

through this this is the signals from my garage door opener these are all things that I know can easily be detected right so personally as a Defender I'm really curious in being able to do some digital signals analysis here and doing something like running a hackrf where it's constantly looking at certain uh frequencies that I might be interested in like at 350 megahertz when my garage door opener on that sort of thing because um it's sort of the the evolution right the attackers always have the edge and Defenders are are late to get there but in this case I feel like the attackers are just just starting to scratch the surface with some of this stuff and you hear stuff

about fontas where attackers are starting to have the capability where they can literally um change or use software on specific Hardware that can generate uh radio frequencies and using that as a way to xfill data um now that would be really cool because no one's looking at these different frequencies you know on a wireless network or things like that but they're things that we might want to start thinking about in the future um from the defensive side um and just sort of wrap up my story uh I don't know how this is going to play out in the courts but I did plant about 220 trees um so there's a picture of one of my trees on on the

left and you can sort of see about a hundred of them on the right Ruth also planted some [Laughter] trees and um that's that's really um that's about it so that's that's the house with the trees and this is where I'm left so any questions yes sir

I I didn't know I didn't know any of this yeah and to me it was a way to learn like I just love learning about stuff and so and I also had devices that were reliant on the two4 thing too right like I've got an old Wii that the kids use and like I said this is this isn't my expertise so it was a learning curve anybody else okay yes sir

yeah

sure understand

well I I can't say too much about that like I'm not a lawyer um I will say I think that was sort of misconstrued in social media um a little bit um and I'll talk to you offline about it but I'm not qualified to speak for my company um on that so anybody else okay thanks a lot for the time guys