Cryptocurrency as Asymmetric Economic Weapon

which is not a problem but it doesn't my laptop and might not be powered want to power it out alright so luckily I operate off of a Chromebook whenever I'm traveling and they take no time at all power alright so today we're gonna be talking about cryptocurrency let's start with some basics how many people here know what cryptocurrency is how many people have a wallet alright not-not-not loving these wallets you know cryptocurrencies love how many of you think the cryptocurrency is solely the populated by by criminals and scumbags and things like that so nothing and in most cases you're right nothing oh by the way let's let's be clear about something if you run a conference don't

switch from Android to iPhone the day before your conference really screws up your messaging okay

come on grab a seat just like everybody else don't be shy it's not

yeah

so actually we're actually building a company

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[Music] okay all right in all seriousness the difference between no it's not it's called the Josh forgot yet to speak one and when oh crap it's one

somewhere in the world twice so what is the difference between two currency launches right cryptocurrency has tidings of misgivings tied to it right where their little ear companies that change the name their stock price goes up the kind of cryptocurrency like Thailand what was lucky and ICT company yes right the blockchain I see company their stock went up 400% did you see what happened with these guys I mean your stock went through the roof in the matter of minutes after they came to me so cryptocurrency has a bad reputation because it is seen as what we scam people with now let's be honest that's true okay out of the roughly a thousand cryptocurrencies have an out

there since the introduction of cryptocurrency how many of them are scams anybody what percentage who thinks that 30% or more of cryptocurrencies have been scams okay who thinks that raise your hands if you think 30% of all raise your hands keep mother who thinks 40 50 60 70 80 I just want to be sure you're not the only one up here with a hand up 81% no 81% are guaranteed like sort of defined agreed scams so cryptocurrencies are interesting now what is it primarily the way that they are scams there's two major types of scams in cryptocurrency now there are blatant ones there are literally cryptocurrencies that people said oh this is a Ponzi scheme please

buy now I'm gonna ask with anybody here by they saw that the description when they're ones that literally this is a Ponzi scheme or they have the every cryptocurrency for a while had Devon you had to have your white paper and so they have a white paper and it was literally like they would not even scrub up the name of the team that actually wrote the white paper so if you read the white paper you like wait this is the name of the oh crap and they just cut and paste like that bad okay you're like oh it's a PDF it's way too hard okay I was all over the place from that that the

contractor to commercial to whatever okay josh is on the chief operating officer then they aku redline Vick to the COO say it twice you'll see about how how saying I am it stands for chief cook and bottle washer right I make sure things work it's got make sure that we stay alive as a business that's the way works been around the block done way too much stuff I'm one of the primary organizers in this conference if you know that you haven't been here I have been around the block more than once and this kind of thing is fascinating so I actually I lost all my hobbies becoming an entrepreneur and when I was able to

have a little bit of time to regain them because I don't had a kid three businesses to run I obviously had plenty of time I decided that cryptography was fun and I got interested in cryptography started reading it comes to currency and blockchain are based on cryptography and we really started talking about the sky and had some interesting thoughts so courtesy scammer Savior and so okay so the two scams that you'll find in cryptocurrency almost universally are what's known as an exit scam and we'll talk about the other one in just a second but an exit scam is interesting does anybody know what an exit scam is what is it

[Music] imagine if you put your money in the bank and one day the guy that owns the bank goes oh I got lots of money I'm gone okay that's effectively what happens with a lot of cryptocurrency was known as exchanges an exchange effectively is a bank right first and so an exchange will take in cryptocurrencies that you can exchange it I can go hey and I'd like to buy that car and I'm gonna give you three Bitcoin for the car he goes great and so he hands me that the keys in the title of the car a nice hand over three Bitcoin because it's in an exchange it's just an inter exchange transaction it doesn't

have to go out on the grand a Bitcoin blockchain doesn't take six days to get the transaction through five seconds later because I've got my three Bitcoin in my wallet I'm good how does that happen because I transfer all of my Bitcoin into the exchanges wallet the bitcoin actually then owns sorry the exchange that haunts my Bitcoin oh that's a problem because they can just take it but for convenience sake internally in their own little accounting system they can say put it in Ed's wallet put in his wallet put in her wallet so it's fast but you give up control and okay so that's interesting listen to the alright

[Music] well it is about what's going on in the marketplace itself and then how to identify what's really out there so Bitcoin from about eight thousand dollars for a bit point up to the high of what was the highest are you talking about market itself or or are you talking about the public facing market exchange the public facing market no public market yeah it was about nineteen K per Bitcoin from about eight thousand dollars up to nineteen it was manipulated now interestingly enough it was manipulated using a currency known as tether Heather is fascinating Heather is supposed to be tethered one tether equals one US dollar tether was used to it was injected if you own to the

Bitcoin marketplace when Bitcoin started to go like staffing up stop plateau and then to come down they would just go buy a thousand Bitcoin with tether which that shows the strengthening of the market and people's kept that thing going it's the equivalent or it actually is it's called a pump your pumping market using tether no tethers interesting we're not going to get into it that's a talk I don't think I'll give now there's a fascinating currency if you follow tether there are some interesting things about the wallets of the moment I'm not gonna get into that right now right the second I honestly don't know I don't know I have been playing with I don't play the tether

right now I was looking into the historical events the pump and dump so they pumped Bitcoin with tether and then when I got to 19k and all the

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right can somebody quickly go out and Google real quick right while we're fixing our heart or the state consume people out here and hit up Google figure out what a tether costs right now what is what is it right Napoli Y on the market itself okay so pump it up okay right around $1 it's right dollar all right but by the way even if it's around a dollar you can still do arbitrage trading on that what is arbitrage trading arbitrage trading is the training when there's a difference in value so I can do micro transactions and trade for a half of a tether and then when it goes to old let's say I buy a

whole tether 1997 I do one sensor was it takes a 99 cents it goes to 1.0 one I've now gained two pennies and values right roughly I sell it at me two cents whew that's great but when you do it for a million tether you've now gained million times two cents which is a chunk of money okay that that is the traditional amount of how you do stock trading day trading you've heard of day trading day trading is trading in such minuscule increments of value large increments of volume does that make sense you buy 10,000 shares of something that changes by 3 cents you sell it you've now made you know three thousand ten days or less so it's sort of like the

reverse paradigm for the CISSP mile-wide achieve only this time is each wide mile-deep pretty much okay but sorry here goes with a pump I can get any one single currency or one single unit of currency a thousand dollars in value or in this case twelve thousand dollars in value so if I bought one Bitcoin had to eight thousand dollars and I managed to pump and own a minute to pump it up to the 19,000 20,000 I think twelve thousand dollars right all right great I gained twelve thousand dollars in a single Bitcoin that's pretty awesome now if I can do that let's say from 2010 when I was stupid and didn't buy the thousand Bitcoin I was offered a quarter

of piece a quarter like 25 cents okay a friend of mine actually funny story a friend of mine is um transgender she has she had some Bitcoin and she wanted the top surgery breast augmentation so she purchased she sold her Bitcoin and bought for breast augmentation they are the most expensive pair of breasts breasts you'll ever see because they now cost about eight million dollars

attention to news you would have heard about the kid in California who took $5,000 or something or something around those numbers you know what I'm talking about right [Music] and what is it what does it work now 120k he owes 140,000 on capital gains and it's only worth 20 right so imagine being that much under water so they lump and dumped will do that to you because when the people who own all that would have been pumping tetherin pump the value up sell all their all their Bitcoin and it drops down to the $8,000 we're seeing I think this is my personal offend in the natural resting point of Bitcoin will be somewhere between six to

eight thousand dollars which means one Bitcoin will be worth somewhere between six nine thousand dollars that's my belief take it for what you will okay yeah that reflected on the cost of mine and in fact the cost of mining it is as hidden some cost that is not reflected in the cost of the actual Bitcoin and I think that that will come out but that's a different question what he's asking about is the fact that it costs more to mine a Bitcoin than then almost anything else any other part of the Bitcoin sort of universe the mining is ridiculously expensive these days you're talking specialized hardware a specialized software what the hell are you doing

so when Bitcoin mining cost so much money in electricity entire hardware and effort and expertise honestly that it's not reflective it's not reflected in the cost of Bitcoin right now that's because most of the Bitcoin that was mined was mine before it cost so much to mind if that make sense so it's a small factor that is Bitcoin more and more and more more the defendants mind it was part of this high effort Bitcoin universe you'll see that cost art getting reflected you might raise the resting point it might be just accepted as a cost of doing business if that makes sense we'll see I'm actually fascinated [Music] years ago who might any Prince of

currency now okay whoa what's that what makes it are you tracking metrics the power consumption versus doctrine - oh now it's it's definitely not what they're back then before all of this happened before while I don't did what it was worth a lot of money right so this is the idea of regulation and every place that has color on the map as either considering or has enacted regulation about crypto currencies there's a lot that's doesn't like there's no comment most of it isn't covered by regulation of cryptocurrency okay there's entire subcontinent's there is a release there's there's a lot of places that don't have or not considering regulation of cryptocurrency so what does that mean it's the West

remember cryptocurrencies easy to cross borders with so we've been talking a lot about scam so we've been talking with some Bob read some regulation about let's get to that can you use hacking to affect the company stock price who thinks you can like no different perspective okay whenever you have the company or companies in the news what are you doing to that comfort [Music] is target stone and why so let's let's put this in perspective this is typical and the answer is yes the question is but for how long right that's what he's aiming at not really no not really because

my coworker was very embarrassed okay what you said a moment about us our differences right Ashley Madison at how many people 30 million people right now our boss what happened post breach hey what what up yes so the stock price will change whether it goes down or up depends on a lot of factors but you can actually take a look at that now will it normalize yes target went down I think five percent or seven yourself nobody ever did the same hope you put in the same thing so typically it'll drop and then come back up even rise above okay and so with all the I'm going to step in here and even with all of the breaches that have

happened all that acts how many companies have actually crashed and burned just yours prism one company and if you can tell me which company that was I'll give you a $10 gift card Amazon afterwards yes no try again if you can tell me who it was I hope they give you a $10 gift card Amazon courtesy of Red Lion afterwards five four three two all right so we can change stock prices with having them by the way that doesn't necessarily mean that we have the company was like wait a minute now I gave this talk at infocomm the guy sitting next to me was moving I started my career by using one of his slide one of his pictures incorrectly

and I stalking it for work on I had to use and I took this shot sitting next damn and I put this on screen reduced looks to be like but seriously who could do this was it a Bond villain a nation-state boris and Natasha was ski mask and gloves I never understood the gloves I can't anyway so why would people want to manipulate cryptocurrency and volatilize stock partners and these are two separate acts okay but they can be linked if you if you followed the last cryptocurrency you may spin all over the map are you going to change your effective stock market yes because people's money that they might put into cryptocurrency will pull out of

cryptocurrency might go into the stock market or get pulled out of the stock market the people that play in cryptocurrency other people have think an arbitrage people that think in arbitrage you typically do it wherever they are whether it's the stock market or the cryptocurrency market plus you can do things like make money in cryptocurrency use the money that you make in cryptocurrency by pumping and dumping to actually play in the stock market since you've already got skills and technology why don't you just threaten to hack you know some company okay company X and company hit you find the old dumb of passwords they've lost three years ago sort of got three years ago and I've since entirely fixed they

did great stuff with their security they rotated all their passwords they're fine but I could dump ten million passwords on the open Internet of their stuff down when they go no I totally we fixed that absolutely like two and a half years ago I don't know what you're talking about who's going to believe them so when you look yourself up and say oh that's an old password but they still have me in there how bad are you gonna think of that company that's a breach years old it's still a breach okay how many passwords using them some counselor pairs do you think that Scott and I have on our databases right now let's start let's

keep our hands up if you drop it when you think that's too many they don't have that money fifty billion no seriously raise your hands one hundred million one hundred fifty million 200 million two hundred fifty million let's start these let's stop these baby steps half a billion passwords 1 billion passwords 3 billion passwords 30 billion passwords 60 million passwords I think were 65 mind you when we're talking about these numbers we're talking rough back at the upload flat really figure it out however it's every three that you have seen heard of and the ones that you did that are being sold on the black market the last eight years yeah so I didn't release these

numbers I can release these password files tank your company stock by three percent for three days that's all I need because if I'm smart I'm shorting the stock I'm using the money I got from cryptocurrency to pay the margin calls comes down I sell I've now shorted the stock made a god-awful amount of money helps destroy your economy for three days at a time which is fine that's definitely more than a typical news cycle or two and I've made a billion dollars destroyed a couple of news cycles with horrible economic news right and I've committed an act of terrorism without ever harming a single person but insider trading that what because you know something about the company

that not even that knows you by the time I've released ten billion ten million whatever passwords about your company do you think instead of trading something I give a crap about if they find me it's a problem but I've been doing this as anonymous money-making on the crypto currency markets when I transfer to Fiat all I'm doing is transferring money from a wallet here there to get money that's US dollars or Euros or whatever the hell are you go on and then when I buy and sell on the stock market whichever stock market I sell on that's coming off of a server and God knows where us down so we'll take a different spin on this to

find too many ok right millions right did you know that there's only about 80,000 Mordo visa to discover eighty to ninety thousand okay so instead of using breach data zero this go and roll your head I think about either ninety thousand total vulnerabilities so far not just Windows but everything come on you're killing me smalls so I mean who could be doing this kind of thing I have no idea yeah Changa shine

[Music] look this has not been done that we know of the pumpkin thumbs absolutely have the exit scams absolutely have the hacking stock price is absolutely hacks that's been mathematically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt okay there are very very serious mathematicians who have done the analyses and they're the simplest form is a t-test where you actually determine whether something is can be due to chance or not and the you know the p-value is far surpassed in other words the chance of these items happening by chance is very very low okay now have they all been linked together this is something that we thought of as a what if like what if somebody really cool and stupid and

crazy did this stuff wait what if they did this - oh my god that's awesome ly funny oh wow that's really bad yeah but it's still cool one of those situations okay so people knows people perform activism on stock prices what happened put them together these events together in such a fashion is to actually do things for or how many times do you think something like this has actually been put into a very elaborate media

look at the dots and tell me I'm wrong that serious but why I mean you made money I'm going to do another worker to make money in this you can just be really smart really evil and make a lot of money hurting a lot of people you can do - for psychological operation silence okay you can do it doe rabble-rousers how many people want second mortgages to buy Bitcoin hopefully nobody here but a lot of people did right and if you can make their houses worth less than nothing do you think they'll be quiet and calm and the Bulls isn't their biggest asset just became something that drags them down beyond their children's life spans

they'll have to commit that sort of bankruptcy they'll have to go to bankruptcy court just so their kids don't have to drag their debt around for their entire lives and their kids will start with less than nothing when they were trying to let their kids grow in a good environment the rabble rouser with this kind of thing is easy you can make a country destroy itself we did it to Russia wait we're not supposed to talk about that remember Jamie okay we can decrease stability with you make it easier for somebody to screw with take your industry take your segments to make your whatever we can disagrees the stability and it's asymmetric that that's the other thing

this is asymmetric this is warfare that you can rabble rousers literally with a few people or if you're really crazy one person against an entire financial segment all of the bank's you can compete as one person with a laptop like this guy right here not that he's doing it I'm not calling about that he's doing these things maybe Wiz

working on an entire country we don't know oh my god money so look the basic idea is that this hasn't been done as far as we know this whole talk is what if this whole talk is that this is interesting this whole talk is a wow that could be interesting and cool and I mean not cool but it's a great hack it's scary but it's a great hack there's a movie and they called it a fire sale this would be a fire sale I know you don't watch movies because you're just too busy are acting keep your knowledge up somehow he keeps telling me about what's on the live TV I don't care anyway so the point is is

that again this is a whatever this is this could be interesting but the fact is is that you can now start doing these things in training events in the information world to have real-life consequences in very significant ways in the economic sphere everybody's going oh my god I can take over a PLC and destroy the gas plants but you know that's great and that's but that's really tough they actually secure against those things you know I realize now if you're laughing experiment you can secure a natural gas plants they don't mostly but you can do it yeah but they can't secure that thing in between US and Canada can they there's interesting things going on there anyway

so asking about estimate later about it was James story's acid so but would you you know what you can't do is because it's really difficult to secure the entire economy and if you think of it that way there are ways that we can manipulate them and utilize arbitrage to our advantage does everybody okay ask some questions well you don't have any questions we have another job are the doors no with all this being said realistically what are we trying to do there we're trying to elicit you to think right be broader than what you actually how many people have actually done like improv comedy funny in the mirror right there's something called a guess and and improv

right take it out of improv and bring it into what you do every day yes and you can do such-and-such right so throwing the guest hand over to Josh questions yes how would you oh that's so okay so you uh as we talked about you do an ANOVA you do statistical calculations to determine the chance the possibility of these acts to relevance okay what I'm coming with this reaches yes that's true that's that's a concept and people buy and sell securities how would you detect say how would you detect that the tour chain is xxx okay so here's the deal so you look for differences if you buy life insurance and you buy let's say two

million dollars with the life insurance and you ask them while you're buying hey is there a suicide and then two weeks later you commit suicide they're doing we need to talk that was after our talk by the way doctor nobody's been in suicide during any of our talks ever not yet so because it's a confluence of events so in this case for let's say a stock manipulation you're going to look for someone that's buying a short in that stock in large quantities okay and then it happens within a time frame that they specify what you sure to stock you actually specify plan fair I think the driver with routing stock beans right in I think this I was gonna draw I know I

know I know we don't have day traders in here y'all know what that means right if you don't know what it means puttin putting it up shorting a stock don't be don't be shy okay they have at least two three four shorting the stock means that when you buy a stock you assume it's going to go pop so you buy low sell high right when you sure to stop you're actually in a long complex process but I'm betting it's going to drop you will make money of the drops you will lose money if it rises so it's like going because you know embedding with a house okay so if you think that a stock is going to

end by the way this happened after 9/11 I was we enter a year after somebody had a billion dollars in stock market was gonna take a whole morning crash she looks like 911 about a year later okay so either somebody lost a billion dollars or somebody's terrorist plot family not a joke like everyone is freaking Ellie they've been a billion dollars in stock market crash just like 9/11 the stock market crashed 9/11 but you didn't know that no I mean literally crashed but it also took a dive okay somebody's got a billion dollars in the market it was going to do the same thing in you later everybody read out because guess what that's a signal that

something is going to happen somebody bit you something that twenty bucks I was gonna happen all right 20 bucks so he puts a billion dollars they're invested that's gonna happen and if it doesn't they're gonna make it happen that was the point so you look for somebody to destroy a certain segment an industry company something you look for something to happen is also the stories

[Music] that's a great one so if somebody hasn't you don't know what's that we may not be able to read we may not detect if somebody has the money the patients at a time and it has the perfect iron we'll look at that perfectly steady then you may not reveal detected would you look for are the tanks the nervous twitches you look for somebody who buys shorts Tesla stock or a million dollars and you're like wait a minute you only have fifty bucks in the bag if they go up you're never going to be able to beat your market involved what if the stock goes up and you bet it goes down you have to pay off some of your own bet

okay so you look for these people that aren't registered investors but they were fined $100,000 with a you know a pestle surety okay

you better work nearly and wonder if this will work click crap right okay anybody that's developer that the rich man can just live is you stack overflow okay it's the exact same thing we're testing the waters to see if X can happen if Y is the result not like as a wh-why but the letter Y is up right X Y and then the disease is the after action right so now that you're talking about actually planning it out when you're looking at something like that you have to be able to walk into process backwards from a forensic or an investigative standpoint we're going to be an after the fact that both sides of it all right it's going to

be we had something short this talk for a million dollars and they never heard it before and they haven't turned it sense and there's nothing to indicate that it should have done down but it did because of whatever incident can we connect the person in the incident because that's insider trading and then you to be able to connect those dots right a lot of companies won't let you examine the records because they don't want the bad publicity that and they also claim its trademark trademark infringement and intellectual property infringement how many people have been in companies where they had a breach and they didn't actually report it because they didn't want to be seen as you know not secured

don't you know raise your hands don't we don't we don't want to know you know [Music] point is is that sometimes you'll never know for various reasons there are ways to determine a lot of things statistically and there are ways that have may can investigate wait a minute but it's really tough if somebody actually builds up their investment portfolio making money shorting stocks over a long period of time and they happen to make a lot of money shorting this stock that pays for all of their debts from all the things that they screwed up and they do it perfectly over so the Richard Pryor and you know collected these like 20 bucks out of a halfpenny

ear and the quarter penny they're like three weeks later was three thousand dollars or something real money you know nowadays it's like well that's that's nice but that's not something to run off the corner over there you know those kinds of attacks well it's it's when you're doing when you're shorting the same stock multiple times you're still making gains on it right oh you were really pulling that I'm reaching oh you should come already so look the point is is that you don't have a pattern it's going to be part of the pattern if you don't know the pattern it's going to be new if it's new and suspicious if who here has never created

in stock market okay if one of you put a million dollars into a stock the next day went up a thousand points and you sold and made a gazillion dollars out of it and then walked away that never trade stocks again everybody be like wait a minute yeah I even even watch the SEC yes you see was just a friendly chat and promise we won't go to a campus candidate unless you screw up or again but as long as it's a pattern if you've been doing it for 20 years you put a million dollars to this document be Brazilian dollars they're billion dollars of that stock lose it half of gazillion dollars there okay that's part of the dollars it's

honestly it's old-fashioned detective work the best pattern matching engine in the world is still between two years

what happens when neither a detective so little do this happen more often than you expected fascinating but in this case if this never happened we would detect it because we really something didn't fit a pattern there law enforcement agencies if you like how did that dude make you know half a billion dollars in three days where has no record of stock market trading how did he come into the market with three million when we don't know where the money came from it's it's that's how you get a detective you're gonna tack again it breaks in patterns make sense what's going to happen they're going to win they're going to destabilize that segment and industry that economy

they're going to get their hand the only thing we can do is act with the fact that post facto again we can find them we can arrest them we can mark them flag them watchlist them do something to make sure that they don't do it again or that when people die on them make sure they try it again that time the second time in the middle of it they did the that is a very bad pattern matching that means that's all the I am learning is pattern matching and but it's a different is trying to sell you something next day next question question I mean I understand where I was worth thinking of like the actual

what next I mean I get it that a lot of thought is be given into this as you know the one difference and you know what you know how do you give any consideration as to how the X Pro factor would play out you know maybe what in terms of what exquisitely with you you're not starting like after a fact that after effect oh do you know retail industry company I know you can you can take company and burn it to the ground you can take an entire industry segment say entertainment or I mean look at Sony they lost huge market credential plus huge market goodwill you market everything after half of their damn movies were leaked online

they lost how many millions and hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue and by the way there's cyber insurance they went to their cyber insurance vendors and pay up we got hacked their cyber insurance vendor said yeah that's fine you know we'll pay out thirty million dollars you do it we bought the 99 I think was maybe wrong thank you million dogs with cyber insurance and and the jury said you might have but you only bought twenty or thirty million of our and they you say happy really wait but we got a hack like started enemy nation state northridge plaintiff so when we were starting my lawyer but this was a great great great tangent one

of the things that we said to each other was how do we get in front of companies right how do we get our best sellers out there right and our sales methodology part of it was actually talking you insurance companies we would enter highly regulated verticals insurance cyber is going to be one of them because I'm fine works we want to talk to insurance brokers underwriters and arrange our selfies which is pretty much the three tiers of the tax dollars so we said hey you're a robber what if we double over the claims percentages by actually testing the companies that you're going to go write cyber insurance for and will tell you the risk factors which allows

you to price the risk better they said we don't care right and the methodology we were taking was let's why the companies that you're giving these policies we're watching and out billion 5 million 10 million 20 30 90 million dollar policies right and more often than not for a million dollar policy seriously we looked at their questionnaires that they handed companies we actually had somebody hannah's for a million dollar policy a questionnaire with one question you ready for this one okay do you own a firewall Wisconsin is account firewall in a box still plastic wrap on the show it's a plug did not is it raccoon stack not is it you know are the wrongs being

filtered out of it minimum standard but the answer was almost care right so we went to the underwriters must be clear these the brokers then we went to the underwriters who actually write out the the questionnaires who actually price the risk who have to understand the risk in order to price it properly credit for the premiums does that make sense everybody and so we asked them we could lower your plans percentages by doing proper testing and compliance auditing of these companies to make sure that your pricing your wrist properly [Music] you don't care we get paid no matter what no let's be fair and honest and give them a chance to strike back okay there was a company in California I

forget the name of the company at all people of Sony I don't know I don't know the name I don't want to it's okay kind of telecom company bought cyber insurance and they part of the cyber insurance they I'm sorry to the problem your wife actually just sent me downstairs to say she knows that everybody who's being asleep so if you would like two dollars off okay let's keep going cottage cheese cottage health got hacked and they in their cyber insurance they said we are will be this standard of compliance and that was like HIPAA right no it was actually something you can actually certify if it doesn't have a certification process PCR no no

you know pay up and so they the insurance company came in and said okay show us your records that you you follow the standard see okay they're following the high thrust standard they said no we were supposed to follow a HIPAA I'm sorry I sell and they said well yeah I just really works better for us today it's ripped so they didn't get their money it was written for them to follow ISO but they were following something else you got to be very careful of those insurance pulses by the way read your Legion Riders region policy yeah anyway so we then went to the reinsurance companies the final arbiter of risk and price we said we lower your

would that be good that's what we're disillusioned and miserable and bitter living are they said club to great but we have no idea where clients are yeah what are you talking about like our clients are the underwriters we don't we're not allowed to talk to the actual end users right great so those going to be birds nickering it should be every single person in this room they don't get to talk to the end-user clients because it's not their business their clients are the underwriters and occasionally a broker they're not allowed to talk to the end-users those are the clients of the underwriter and produce right now let's look at the other side of the coin okay what's

actually being done we have new regulation coming out of California which is supposed to match something of GDP our ish right this is where everybody says yes because you know what I'm talking about yeah yes I know what you're talking about okay we have new legislation coming out of South Carolina oh yeah we just supposed to be fixing what we just spoke about however however very short [Music]

time for one last question anybody yes here's the problem some of you guys you want to work story once insurance company out of us where to live actually started building a rent not really register more like that testing team assessment team to do what we were talking about the entire assessment team that snapped up by a very smart company is like oh they have a little bitty nice team hire all of you and they said well how much you gonna pay us and they named a number they were holding crap and literally on Moss defected and it's like so every insurance company since it has been like well we can't do this so we've actually talked to several

insurance companies to try to be there destined to you know and they don't care all you want to do some analysis they do not get what's that care all right gentlemen I think we've hit our time limit thank you very much

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