BSidesATL 2018 - Podcast Recording (Southern Fried Security)

[Music] [Applause] [Music] it's a very special episode the southern side security podcast I like to bring this to your attention today's episode is filmed in front of a live studio audience here at Kazan State University welcome to the show everybody how are ya [Applause] very honest here that this is much better than the other time to record a lot of podcast episode since Andy not recorded at a Gordon Biersch in front of three guys who are so trite then no idea we're doing so you're only much better much less than you created crowd so thank you very much so what was my next my name is Marc Fisher really but if you join us here today and

that besides Atlanta I hope you have enjoyed it as much as we have in d1 again you'll notice he's not here unfortunately your auntie was planning to be here unfortunate family circumstance occurred and the commitments be podcasting for all of us every day of the week so any sentence that's regrets so G however that isn't things are good this is my first time at b-sides Atlanta it's been a hell of a show I'm actually really really happy to be here because you guys are awesome just really awesome so I have a ball right now this is great and also just be ever lovely but that Justin is left her secure undisclosed this location inside the perimeter to enter out venture out

into the hinterlands last but certainly not least just a spark will specifically Joseph rivalry I'm doing good and I want to to break something wide open here so you notice there's no Andy Willingham and that's exactly it there is no Ellie [Applause] right I've never met any in the eight years of my past and here it is writers name and be willing them right pull the props okay we have a look at this we gotta break this down a little bit first Andy starts with hey hey hey hey what hey what what we look at his last name his last name Willingham Willingham Lord wh-wh-what did that possibly be but Waffle House Andy Willingham gonna

say why full house employee this has been a long time years in the making I'm telling you so this has been a conspiracy theory this kids have for almost a year maybe even longer now and we're trying to convince him that's not real unfortunately the one chance we get to present physical evidence it didn't happen so we're just gonna let it run with that for now but I promise you Andy is real he tried to kill me in Spain once there's a story about that we'll get to it later but it's not just a figment of his imagination although if you follow John Oliver the Olsen twins it's one person to discover perhaps a bit Stefan that is right so came avatar

so tonight is really sort of a little bit of the back story around so the trusty Rockettes but most importantly my I'm going to Bennett here if you're one of people who hung out at the end of a con to hear this you might want to do a podcast so what one is kind of peel back some of the the glamour and glitz that we know be exude tremendously and actually say looks really like just do a podcast I don't play our ain't list so your words come on so one thing please wrote there's fair use in the United States copyright laws cease in this look this is letters are real you don't want to get them so the other things that

people want to do is week back in 2009 2010 Andy and I a news were in a land at the time and we were crouching about how there were so good podcast out there there were some not so good podcasts out there but we would sit and just write and just be upset about what was going on information theory at the time problems we completely solved like awareness education encryption we just solved almost a so there's three things to talk about things that the Nets Nets that podcast which was marking a get rich mobile exactly we really enjoyed listen to them you know Paul calm before it became all security weekly Paul was really technical but for reasons we'll

talk about it couldn't really listen to them in my normal drive time because my kids would be in the car David all security justice is a fantastic podcast they recorded by the bar it was wonderful and then security not so we had no idea what we're getting into but we had something to say and we needed to get the podcast off the ground we felt that one plagiarism is the highest one compliment is it not it is not a coincidence that the first 60 episodes of yeah that was kind of yeah it was where you gotta go unfortunately rich and Mark McCain were extremely gracious as we came on board and actually they became big podcast dance

so you have to find inspiration and one of them simply copying other podcasts for us there was no creativity there and actually we do like being creative we actually like having a lot of fun doing this yeah so if you're out there and you're interested in doing a podcast look at the podcast or any ghost in the second one cigars we'll talk a little bit more about now in the second pass them in but find that inspiration have something to say and put your own bent on it make it part of you the way you hear uh spending Ellis in the podcast thank you oh but our bags up at what you actually hear on

the podcast is who we are us yeah and it just it's fun it's an we make honey what are you doing it zero yes there are zero here's the funny thing just a behind see instead when you hear the final product recorded product you're actually hearing us recorded life we don't do second tapes unless I screw up and buy screw other hand we'll talk about that we'll talk about that a minute but you hear us as we are so like sometimes the fighting the bickering and things that's real but it's not because we're mad at each other we're just very opinionated and this is a good thing so when Marissa is put girl bent on it

that's what it is to be your son everybody will like you better because I'm so the other thing also is you need to if you're gonna do this you want to be maybe put the crimes out of this people want to hear Joseph has got a very interesting observation again over the past I guess year or so we've actually released here in your episodes people notice that but are the listener numbers have gone with fewer episodes which I would probably say to do the fact that there are just more security people out there these days and when we started recording eight years ago yeah yeah I love the things are scintillating which is but a bit right so the next

step is you gotta get a team together right and there's a bunch of different roles that have to happen on a podcast and this is stuff that you haven't done recording before you don't necessarily think about it when you're doing your the first most important world I think is the producer right and this is the person that does the reporting the editing and the posting that's for the longest times been predominantly just its Mrs America like the first ten episodes each lasted between 45 to 60 minutes each one took me four to six hours to edit down because I was just that awful at but over time I learned the tool a lot better so now

will report a 30 minute show I its own uploaded and being downloaded 10 to 15 minutes after we great the staff connection that's how fast we're able to do it then depending on who's actually produce unless you know what somebody dropped an f-bomb yeah yeah so well the show notes there would be people gotten better at that because we started using Google Doc so in fact see if we were doing like the the Skype thing right now what we're reading off of here these are our show notes and so we would take the condensed version and then pop that into the blog how about there you go we need a sign it's not this stuff so what

important things you need notes with your brand new podcaster and this this is this is the user producer and you get some of these comments they hurt but then you man up and move on the the thing on the right here the one comment I absolutely love the pockets that is an actual comment that was sent to us via the the podcast website and for those who might be listening to this later because we are going to release this out onto the podcast room I'm going to read this it's very professional production value it was certainly quote good enough compared to many other podcasts out there but is there anything could be done about Martin's nose which no

offense what it's so distracting Martin is a great ghost what we need to put some ethylene and his notes on that particular comment came he barely on in the show series and part of the reason for it was because the the mic that he would record from literally was so sensitive it picked up everything everything everything so you could tell it weren't had a cold like just like little for allergies or allergies racked up so the nose whistle thing it was hysterical it hurt but it was absolutely hysterical and then here the bottom left of the slide there's a waveform tweeted this out there's ago that is me saying um I go through and edit those out mark doesn't

but I go through and I headed out um I know my waveform I know Martin's and I know Steve okay that's levels are smaller so I actually have to listen to all of those as opposed to just going through repeating out all the Young's just from these straight and the funny thing is when Jo supposed to this I looked at my desk joseph's a home yeah that's it that's how long we've been doing this yeah what if accounting creation right unlike perhaps another Atlanta based information security podcast we actually run our cassettes out we just don't know if this guy's love you

loser the cool thing in Israel you have Google Docs and all four of us might not learn how work together and we know how to define stuff up so I think some of this content your I wrote with someone else's resenting it so if someone else wrote my presenting it and it's really a lot of episodes you'll be hearing whoever's the most passionate about a topic he's going to be the person generally who's going to speak about it the most but if he also if you can listening lady Joseph is sort of the facilitator right now from the podcast because he has the most pleasing equal voice right he's always the voice of sanity and reason

his voice is social media web presence right is you're not on Twitter and you're down the web do you really exist you know um this can be very time consuming if you will allow it what can also happen while we were seized my coat is the social media presence can actually even pick up retweets from other podcasters believe me if you start a podcast you throw some of the podcast it asked for a retweet my gosh we're gonna do that right as all of us even though we're not competitors right I'm actually will the biggest fans of the defense of dirty podcast love the guys [Music] so the other thing is it's a team chemistry thing people you got thoughts

on this yeah chemistry is a really good thing and me joining the podcast it was already pretty well established and I have known Margaret for years probably 15 years yeah easily 15 years and so Martin and I and we work together you pirates today the airline a million times on the podcast we were together airline we stayed in contact but me coming to the podcast I didn't know Steve and I didn't know and the Waffle House died I met Joe maybe once at besides you WI think so chemistry was a little bit hard coming in cuz I did you know you don't know these people and you're talking to them on the phone you're trying to do pocket

so it's really really work but actually novel time some of our most downloaded and highest rated shows have been when there was conflict and you know sometimes it was Margaret or sandy or mark versus lower it Larry Hanuman or Martin versus Steve or Martin and you can see the theme here it's simply Morgan versus somebody so the Commons in the how many are seems to always be Martin and with having the issue from us where we all go along you know I don't always see these guys Steve and I will both an RS a few weeks ago and we didn't

and we maybe do like a five-minute interview or the last year I saw you all wait wait yeah so you know being able to have that chemistry and and jump on the phone and or subscribe and instantly just kind of reconnect from where we left off is really really key to what we do and the other thing you need to know about is there's there's no B in Joe's that you have Asperger's right but you have to be aware because they're gonna couple times you outside of it that people who are listening don't get the jokes is they think they know you they believe they have a relationship with you they're inviting you into their car

into their house Suites between their ears on a regular basis right so the thing with the radio shows that you listen to or if you're a big heavy podcast person right I have a huge crush on Terry Gross from fresh air you're at right for years right I feel like I know it don't so but occasionally would your encountering event as a fantastic story about someone who's listening white night in her yeah if you notice typically introduces me as the lovely Evette Johnson right the she is yeah so I get a DM on Twitter a couple of years ago and it says I wouldn't have found it today hi I'm Matt I noticed on the podcast that in the end

segment the host referred to you as the ever lovely Yvette or something like that as I recall I'd be happy to dam the person talking and gently reminding him that sort of comment the off-putting of some female listeners or you I don't want to speak for you however I wouldn't want to take to do that if you are not okay with mer [ __ ] in short on having to be the male voice making that statement but I don't want to make you a party to that and be rather I didn't I like I said Martin and I have known each other forever and there's no way I would ever be insulted like him saying they'll

never love Lea that Johnson see anybody that knows her knows that she gets offended by something she let you know when did you come out of here you're a coma that would be the first sign that you cannot stop I will probably Avenue for you have been me

that Joseph and I did the same she tried to say effeminate so April Fool's Day came and Joseph was visited so we thought wouldn't it be fun if because exactly here from the devastating podcast they they were to pretend to fire them grapples maybe pretend to fire Joseph get let the state Twitter were thin and a fire in and then we'll swap right it'll be so funny it wasn't funny my wife says no no no don't do it don't do it don't do it oh my god it'll be fine we have a very discerning and the eliminated audience it wasn't time for the consent decree we continue to apologize to Jack you are limited on to

Ontario Canada and we needed room Austin Texas we made two friends of ours cry because they seriously bought into that I defy urges on this I want to be clear they all thought that he was the one who had done something wrong I got fired but not for doing anything not just because I was a jerk they did not we've also released it before I really don't okay so you need to find an audience right and if you believe me when Stephen and I sat down and started doing this thing Rob who's gonna actually come listen right in fear we peaked out 5060 listeners probably you know our friends co-workers people who report as well you

know it worked we felt obligated to listen to it but that would be it you were so very wrong and I'm convinced as if you are interested in doing a podcast and you build it people will come but there is something important to be said the audience we were gunning for when we first started is not the audience we have ten and the audience we were looking for and the audience we had beginning it's not the audience but while parking brakes are presentation that tries to fix it yet see what you get into why we don't trust your technology well while that that's changed for us over the years the interesting thing is as the podcast is

grown we've taken a lot of direction from some of the stuff we talked about literally comes from suggestions it's the best source of stuff that we can get see this is also what we keep her nuts you know we talked about initially you give a hint the hope all my company there is no way I can listen to how a column with my sister car right nothing is called right it's just his podcast use language that it's what women do you need to use right and it had probably appalling conversations that I didn't really want to have to explain it to my kids just didn't want you think so we decided to be very family friendly it's

harder for some people than others to do just so here's a funny story well we continue look at the thing you've got a dustman here so earlier I said that we when you hear us for life well we have a family friend of podcast which means I can't talk like I normally talk but there are times when we're talking about a subject and I get on a random and they've learned to just let me break sometimes thank you do it without throwing us into an hour rate sometimes but most times they let me write it and then I have to do the exact same thing again only change all of my language because wow once I go I go

yes he does and it's funny because there are times I'll stop myself a bit citrons I'll catch it right in their mouth to start over because I'm not allowed to see those things and I would love to tell you what those things are assuming you can guess because even though I can't say that I want to I can't say so what important things you need to never never think your co-workers or bosses aren't listening well they do true story started working my current game about four years ago I was about three weeks into it walking down the hallway for the cue card and distinctly at 7:30 in the morning I heard the strings my daughter playing

the song you just heard that was interesting so here no honey I'm asking is anyone listening to a podcast everybody tonight it turns out it was the the partner from our consulting company who was like the name got here this is my master let's listen to it and that happened to get my episodes we just full of trash consulting firms when I was in my current gig one of the questions they and I've been there half day one of the questions they asked me is where did I get my security news and I said oh I actually go podcast and one of the interviewers this tonight today and he said what podcasts do you do when

I sit southern-fried security and he said Yuri oh your daddy met Johnson I listened to your podcast I know who you are and then he said oh so I guess that's yeah that question isn't really applying here because you do a podcast and I know you feel I know when you get all your news and listen to your podcast oh it was actually kind of lottery to know that not so many people will actually listen and yes then I got the job it could be worse you could get a text from a family member that just says sparkles yeah I say I'm sorry I was going so you know can you think about is who might be

listening but you really don't care beggars vendors nope here I really don't care I speak what I'd lead to be truth and I'm sort of known and then being very candid and transparent and dark Martin occasionally comes out in meetings with vendors that's okay right yeah I mean we are careful about is if you've been listening to my ex for a while you know that that's been in the consulting business in the past we've never said for it's insulting we talked about the airline never said be Caroline justice works in we're recording they're my work I work for a large manufacturing company right I am the only cast member whose job was completely public enough

and they do them it's it's not important okay what's important what I do not nobody was born that's that applies walls also there are times we may introduce that something might Paris our quarter if we don't call them on my name it makes the conversation with HR just a smidge easier so pull it on there so what's that should be good going back to the we don't really care about the bidders some of you if you're going to do a podcast at one point the sponsor okay we're in there well sorry partner just follow the one little step but if you are in a situation where you have to do a sponsor thing with obviously the consideration

for sponsors a little different but how you handle that we're going to talk up next because there's somebody who does a really great handle sponsorship really great you should be aware of this recipe already so pulling it all together right one of the key things is your format you need to be consistent but you also need to need to be adaptable think about this people want to hear new information but if the format changes every week that's the exhausting right people we human beings life or patterns eating right and if you start radically changing every week people will turn you off they're a big pot they've got some really good security podcasts that have lasted seven eight ten episodes but

because they never found any sort or inequity they went away so if your student podcast even if you could discover ten in ten so it's really not working so we can round the edges and then wait a while before YouTube a big ship we've done three big shifts in nine years and even then this last shift we talked about two months before we did it it's a new thing just as Joseph ones arranged for a moment so right yeah so new podcast you get - audio quality for a little bit a little bit like I don't know 10 20 episodes tops in your size five Jack says on my desk just respond to access five answers by the the thing is

it's like technical challenges can be frustrating but we use Skype for recording we do all the recording locally on one laptop either Martin survives we record I use different tools that Martin does just saw like it's recorded we do all the editing on audacity which is free Lipson is fairly cheap we post our stuff per favore lady cheap but the most important thing this couple bobbies there's so many good podcast you just can't listen to in a car because levels level levels right we run everything right at the end through this horribly obsolete hack together Mac utility called level later brings have everybody even and you get like five episodes to figure out use level later

or something else to bring everybody to even or heard oh hi yeah one of those heart-rending tweets ever I got was four Jackie I'm Miguel no Jack the sweetest most wonderful guy in the world but when he says if you can't fix your level problems by the next episode I'm going to stop listening benefice only ripping your heart out and throwing the trash and yeah that's why this was taking two hours to fix levels a little later one of the things you're interested in the podcast you can spend a stupid amount of money this is a picture of the defense of security studio right you can spend stupid stupid money thousands literally thousands of dollars I think the total

investment I had in my current reporting year is under 300 bucks and I built that up over the course of set leaders if you're gonna invest anything invested in a good microphone that is that is the key thing is that it's a piece of microphone X it's types free lives in depending on kind of how much you wanna buy straight up Lipson is probably the best content delivery network for podcasts it's built by denial casters for podcasters their rates are extremely reasonable go ahead and give them a look if you're gonna be hosting your show notes or any one of the listen to me do a pretty generic website for your podcast if you want to go above and

beyond that there's lots of inexpensive those day options out there isolate you to take notes the the headset that I use it's a logitech gene 360 any kind of gaming headset is actually really good when you're doing a straight connection desktop order because they're this design for quick easy communication so that's what I use and there is some really good podcasting microphones out there but I have found over the years because lord knows I've grown into more with more recordings with this group that I have and we'll talk about HIPAA so zero here but the headset is always giving me the best results and Benjamin from I think anyway has a million opposed divided up

into those units and I only have eight that size I don't work for me so I've got a decent set of studio headphones and microphone and I actually brought my future released it and show you the second guy it's relatively inexpensive and he enrolls at the misty views so moving on one of the things that every podcast has a challenge with is finding your voice right so when those knees even Annie it took us about in nine months that we were getting into a groove we can kind of it just me each one want to jump in just when you're talking about you can't so you get a person you don't you don't get the body language doesn't only want

to turn in a talk but we've got to know each other walk and then we decided it's very justified work and that's screws everything up but here's the thing when we have a Joseph it took about nine months to get to where we were comfortable fighting our boys just three of us to be out of jail it's a Miss about five months we were back on track yeah and then we had that and that took us maybe three or four months and we were back see despite what she says she clicked almost of me we were like like a small family unit like the first of all because we were talking about topics we were all hash that about that one time

and we did I can only explain it as let's we clicked and from that moment forward it's been like you know every time we get on get on the call it's it's like going back to like you know hi doc boy hi john-boy what's the waltz it's like we're just you know that kind of kind of you know you're showing your age she added me this is when I was traveling all the time I was in consulting I was traveling probably 150 90 Arabs on so there was who knew that it was always hard to because we would progress at the same time and so I would somehow be in various time zones and I

would be jumping into conference rooms or jumping on hotel Wi-Fi trying to find quiet spots for extra podcast and I remember thinking my very first podcast I was in Portland Oregon yeah at a client site and had to jump into hobbies are two podcasts because they were times unwise ahead of me and I thought I have no idea what I'm doing and I have no idea why these guys want me to be out of this podcast it was actually pretty perfect way it worked out but the the mean that we have that she's always in an undisclosed location that's why she was on the road so much we honestly there were times we forgot where she was so we just said we don't

know and it's stuck all these years and there's much to be able to present with your consultant and music ends better bill Arkansas yeah which so that's one of the reasons yet but that's a good something we don't want to your Geographic clues I mean she was working for a large firm right and we don't want to get her in trouble we don't want our clients to get concerns there he mounted yeah read respond science so which Steve would salivate at every time because they would talk about for learners yeah they would talk before we were preparing for these apps and you know they would always say where are you what are you doing what are you working

on there say I'm in X Y Z City and I'm on a breach response cry and furthermore can we talk about on the podcast I know it's my job this is the part where the producer looks at sky and says hey we're 31 minutes yes we are if anyone ever actually almost forms so the front of the front of your voice is also your format right there's there is a voice that you have when you're doing and I mean this is Julie that's the defense of security they do they do is this news coverage right and they dive into the stories and have a great conversation that's a different voice than what we're doing right now when

we're making a topic and we're sharing that topic apart over two three four episodes right and really driving into actual things you do that you think look at someone like Pat gray at risky business where either this problem with the best scary podcasters in the industry right now does a little bit of both right and we'll talk more about that in a little bit so finding your voice and finding that format is really important thing if you're wanting to do a security podcast so let's talk about therapies right I'm personal this is probably I think the best episode we ever did was our interview with Larry come on Jim this was when the poem on Institute

reach the warden was first really becoming a thing and for some reason he did not fit who I was in agreement but I need to do an interview is you don't know Larry on one foot so the Ponemon Institute says you know all these different numbers and I've reached cost two hundred eighteen dollars a record right and I was taking a statistics classes time I was born do they're members of the same way you're doing stuff like one or two significant digits and they're putting a low number soon and you're coming out nine significant digits at the end and how does that work and where you realized that I'd sort of like me finding nail jello to a wall he got very

angry he got very very angry we reached out the sensible about it but what I really loved about that interview was I wasn't mean I was I was Atlanta nice I was blessed you're all right and later you explain that phrase to be more blessed so what I recommend was it wasn't it wasn't about trying to prove me wrong it was really trying to get into explain how'd you get this number I don't understand it's always right but there's a challenge in I think Joseph it's the best poem how dare you tease didn't work so yeah the thing about it is interviews are a tool right from a PR perspective from marketing previous jobs in marketing

right interviews are a tool for you to get your message out and that's fine from a podcast perspective right as long as you're aware that you are being a tool and you don't want to be right like that's that's really what it comes down to is then if you are going to do an interview you come up with their expectations and ongoing sides right both the interviewer and the interviewee how much sales in gb you get to do and so on right there you look or I recorded personally important interviews that never made its air because the person had their talking points and was certain like watching a White House press briefing no matter what you ask we're

going to come back to the talking point and come back that's everything if that's every White House press briefing I've seen in my adult lifetime has been this way right especially it's not a sponsored interview I don't own you air in the air me so you decide to be a big jerk about it you know and I don't problem at the Luthor this one's a sponsored interview you have a lot less controllable we'll talk about the mitt but with interviews there are some really great interviewers out there in podcasting I think these are four of the best we've already talked about Terry Gross is pressure I think she is hands down the best long-form interviewer in the world

right now if you haven't listened to her stuff he needs to do that especially your interview between Simmons from kiss were 27 minutes in he walked out it's an amazing interview Chris Hardwick used to do the Nerdist podcast it's now the rebranded IDT it's a nerdy techy podcast and I think Chris has a really good job with long for interviews they're generally our to the power half long they're relaxed they're friendly they're conversation and they're fun to listen to this is where I will really get a gallery for a second in our time with Melvyn Bragg Lord brag if you're nestea BBC Radio 4 is the quintessential geeky nerdy radio station of the attack in our time as a show

where velvet bracket sits down with three macadamias and eaten of our kings college oxford cambridge and they'll do a show on the proton and it was spend 45 minutes talking about the proton and the he manages to draw out this fantastic detail and bring the person's background to a point and really make sure the listeners are going to understand what they're talking about I listen in stuff usually to the concert but also I'm listening to these Debrett's people to get them to say that policeman said and there's Ira Glass from this American Life I have a ghost in this market lesson please do time you cannot there are no words for you to describe how good IRA

is at using an interview to tell story it is but no okay you little easier in a second because I think it's really important here today you're gonna be a podcaster you need to listen to none and puts that hot s you need to get out of the echo chamber and listen out other people do things so let's talk about sponsors we're responsive once we were sponsored once like never appear so the challenge is not noticing sponsors are bad right I'm not saying sponsorship as bad well it's a little risky business right Pat gray he's very clear about what portions of the podcaster sponsor which portions aren't he's very very clear decibels why that's important to talk about you

have a relationship with the sponsor you are selling a product and if you're my listener and I'm sponsored guess what your compromise your earholes are the product I am selling so I think that the sponsor is gonna want some level of editorial control they want to make sure their message that they're paying money for is going to go out there they're gonna put message placement in certain places and they're going to be very forceful about it believe they're going to be very forceful about and there's also potential for sponsored attorneys let me talk about earlier you lose a lot of your flexibility in sponsored editors you just do is again you're selling something it's really important as a

podcaster if you're doing sponsors to be very very transparent if you aren't go take about sponsorship you will get in trouble with your listeners right if all of a sudden we're talking about how much we love product does right of that raises pound of justice the best thing since sliced like Perez bars like everyone should buy product acts and then three months later you find out we got you know jet skis from the beginning a product that you ve possessed and rightfully so she doesn't internet you know my dad's me and so I'd rather have cash and small blood mark bills but alas the issue from the sponsors as well I have talked to people who had been podcast and they

sort of get a little creative with describing their user base and their downloads remember me the very trees that's great but you know sponsors that was their little words before this many years I'm gonna pay this much money if you will give them fraction of those years missed it so I can you go to the store you think buff you have five pounds of potatoes welcome it's only three which paid for product you're pissed and rightfully so transparency and honesty both with your listeners and your sponsors is really important we have found that the cost of doing our podcast we can absorb we don't need sponsors right we feel that this there are things we could have

done with sponsor money like before no more conferences subsidizing that sort stuff but we feel that the structures the complex's that sponsors bring isn't worth it's us that's why sort of three episodes we've never been sponsored yeah the one thing is that's come out since we broadcast spacious I think the picture on model is extremely interesting I am a patron of several people through patreon it may work for you right Steve you've got a couple of thoughts about patreon patreon is amazing but what you need to understand is when you set that up for yourself and your podcast you've now put yourself in the position where you need to have to produce consistently you have to produce

quality and you have to produce title because you have 30 days to get whatever the patrons paid you've set up a subscription model and people are going to buy into that if you don't give them what they want then you're wasting your time and their money so that's a thing you have to constantly stay up on and let's let's be honest when you start up a podcast you're going to hit the roadblocks and writers bloggers you know podcaster blocks where you don't know what to talk about you don't know what to say you don't know what you're doing it's gonna get frustrating well if you're there if you're under the that's enough showing where we are time and if

you're under the gun because you've got patreon hanging over your head it's longer gonna be fun if it's not fun you're gonna quit you will rage with podcasting so use patreon by all means it is something good but understand what you're getting into and I'm more than willing about the natural defensive security you can do patreon we're glad to talk with you about how it's work for them yep so please reject them if you have questions that's that's appreciate you volunteering so there's a closing thoughts well strike it out the far right the table with the guy who's harassing us on time that's right Joseph this is episode number 205 and honestly it's ridiculous that we've been doing it for so long

it's fantastic and finally getting to do like a live show from people as fantastic things around

that Johnson had new words of wisdom DEFCON 19 or 20 I think community we happen to all be reads never speak that Mandy

we had just all been efficient all day and radix Martin's room we were all inspired and once you podcasts and Hartnett is sweet and you know the recording here and we had a couple people making cocktails it was really a mission so he goes this week and we podcast and week I'm not kidding me knock yeah interviews we knocked out this amazing podcast so it was probably like my most favorite part hasn't ever done and I left Def Con early a day early and Mark was leaving that Sunday and he came home and I said are you putting that podcast we just did and DEF CON out and he said I lost it and I

swear I said no nothing there - no no no you can lose it and he said no I did Paul go okay so for those of you are interested in podcasting when you're saving files do not have a blood alcohol content of 0.06 or higher called that got that cough drop gumdrop monstrosity landed behind episode oh and who is making our practice yeah yes so deep what about this oh no no time okay close the music box don't put cough drops and vodka the other person fun is if this has been an amazing show it's it's it's really fun to record with these guys do it live and actually as we're talking look out see visual cues and feedback and it's

been just amazing so thanks for having us this is this abilify so 200 episodes it's been fantastic I am hoping that this may be inspired so we also really think about hey I've got things I want to say and maybe someone who'll listen to it if you decide to go ahead and do that thing make that thing but soon I want to support new podcasters yes so tell us so we can will help right if you got questions reach out to us on twitter z-- we will we will work with you on that cell on that note we hope you have questions we have answers but again we make no warranties a custard pie or a

nephew you suppose the truthfulness of any answer comical rant and how do we actually listen to the whole podcast is very innocent some folks are really good at the front of the podcast saying that their opinions they express are theirs alone we do that at the end of it what single say it but they need to be saying here are for us they don't select our employers or anyone else so with that thank you very much and are there questions comments we our security podcasters ask us anything you say what do you do

so the question was the question was we do know when to quit when Joseph pings us on skype it says 31 minutes that is you do stuff now so I think the actual question is like do we know like destiny okay so you're gonna try to compute this axis Oliveira T where I'm doing it regularly or higher so really really honest with y'all that's a question that we've been talking about we've been doing this for a long time and we slowly start this we said when it stops being fun that's what it's not gonna do anymore in those videos we've been sort of our hiatus we gotta figure out as this funding now I'll be honest

this has been a fantastic thing I'm actually feeling pretty good nobody oh yeah um when it stops being fun does it's not fun I really believe the level of passion you have about the topic is reflected in how you do the content right there are there are episodes that I've done medicine to where I realized I'm awful it's because I really didn't like what we were taught it's why we quit to agree to meet yeah I mean there was there was an episode liver dyeing breaches that we were like yes so we would be started to prep the show if I asked whether that's like this benign this week which one we cover it and he looked at all the news to say no

we're done with this and if that would never happen again we've never talked about breach again to give you an example so if you've listened to the show here recently you notice we've had like a continuing theme than all the episodes I don't like you know a secret recorded every single one of those episodes in one day we have not recorded since we recorded those four episodes and since we put them out weekly bi-weekly so gives you an idea the last time you were all on the line recording together what we do is we plan out a theme we record you know hit the notes together for that theme and then we sit there for

like two hours on the court all these have this up top and then Marvin and Joe edit them up that's how you get released that makes it fun for us but trying to come up with something to talk in week in and week out wasn't work so that's when we move to bi-weekly and that's a while that got stale so that we moved into like let's go for once a month at least then that guy you know the holidays roll around we don't got to busy and we just kind of silent and that's so the long way around answer your question is you stop when it's no longer fun for you if you still have the energy to get out there before

the absolutely show but when you're no longer when it becomes a chore stop what else me answer is over so I plea I'm not the greatest presenter but I spoke at conferences and I'd point it was my team or small consulting firm about doing a podcast broke forever there's one of those things where how do you walk the fine line where the podcast repents on identity and not just the marketing yet of course progress been highlighted we do want people think well those people are really great babies you know we should ask them so I'm gonna speak to you that as a podcaster but as a reporter let me answer that question for you 3:07 go up so the question was he

wants to agree to the podcast with his company a small consultant is learn how do you walk that line between having your own identity and actually selling and marketing here's the answer don't sell a market you can talk about your consulting firm and that's fine but don't ever make the episode about what you can do or what you cannot do if you're tackling a problem you're just discussing the problem don't make the solution about what you do make the solution about but we're coming the challenge of overcoming the problem see when you did that you're a dog food and what they can do to help sicks this situation now you're selling to me I don't want to hear that but if you start

talking about just neutral positions on how to solve this problem everybody knows who you work for they know where you're coming from so they want to know more maybe talk contact me directly there you go great yes okay on the flip side of that so you've had this podcast for a while you have different personalities you can and and you can also kind of have fun with it people know oh you know you go backs on one topic but they know you're really passionate about another topic starting out with a podcast how do you put the fun in the podcast but still stay on top okay so this website when you're sharing a podcast how do you find

the things that are fun okay so I very rarely almost never encourage people to do something okay episode 0 community southern pride security podcast can be found on archive.org ok I strongly suggest whole stiff trains sit down it is awful it's terrible it's it isn't it is what we listen to when we want some humble RCS but from that so we're not in here so if you do a podcast your firm or five episodes are going to suck maybe be proud yeah absolutely we can we put literally can much drama in the moment I was proud of it because we we worked hard over technical issues this guy sucks so hard back then oh and the thing

is episode zero itself we've actually recorded three times before we finally got one we can universe and I had this world will happen every time we go record because early on I used Linux and I was going to update my laptop before I dialed it and got everything according every time I love made the update my laptop skype would break her bestie would break or something would break and then I would delay the show I was constantly the reason we forgot something but I think if you're sitting down and you do the podcast with somebody and I I think what more does Andy and I ignore each other for a really long time before we start this if

Steve can and he kind of Awesome doing it and bringing in just a fat bringing that those new ideas and you get that voice you get that relationship and the topics kind of a people if you think about other episodes we variously they're not going to get the second I guess yeah we talk about how you create relationships with other if he hates hospitals and things like that and to kind of layer into what he's telling you early on and even though still like when we we have shot episodes or ideas there's usually something in that idea that one or more of us are passionate about so when it comes to that section in the unsub like when it

comes to communications crisis communications I'm the one who talks about that that's my job that's what I do I know pretty much you know everything that's going to go wrong in an organization when they try to talk to the press about a breach or something so I can address that stuff so you stick to your strengths and we actually all know what we're passionate about we're past it's all look at the show notes and they've already put my name to things because there's nobody they know what I'm dashing about they know where my strengths are they know what I want to talk about and there's been times where maybe I'm not as vocal on the glass it's

because I hide in my closet so I've been a little bit quiet but I've done some research and you know made sure that I could jump in at certain points and then there's five units where I actually talk to the entire time because it was in my wheelhouse something I love I was passionate about I knew the content like the back of my hand and they would let me go and it makes sense to lead with your strengths so when we talk about topics that she is absolutely king on we won't say where we let her go because that's how we educate the public that's how we get the message out and I mean you know to just right on

that wave right there there have been times where we've done a lot so - I've just done hi it's great to see you things are okay and I stayed silent the entire time and marketing evil artichoke go off on a tangent that's a little episode why cuz I had nothing of value to that's perfectly okay and you know the first episode they actually hit their stride sensitize my lips [Music]