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Hackers! Do We Shoot Or Do We Hug?

BSides Munich · 201742:03222 viewsPublished 2017-04Watch on YouTube ↗
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Hackers! Do We Shoot Or Do We Hug? by Edwin Van Andel at the BSidesMunich 2017
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right hello oh a lot of you stayed you get no I got another one thank you um it's a pre conference and you're still here for the last speaker so thank you very much you're doing excellent great also let's thank them because all the food and stuff it was excellent thank you very much right uh I've got uh a lot of slides let's start with this one because when I was asked to come to Germany I saw this picture and I said where is this party does anybody know it would be so cool to drink beer and then fight with somebody from the BM Squad is I don't know if it's here in the vicinity but if you know please tell

me then we can go there tonight nobody under 15 in the room no because there's a lot of speed slides I think 120 slides in 40 minutes so let's go let's dive in and let's have fun uh has anybody seen this one a fools brilliant porner sharing your latest movie to all your friends that's how it's supposed to be uh I've got normally prizes and this talk is also a talk I normally do for people who are um normal I don't know how many hackers are in the room raise your hand regular citizens regular citizen non hackers uh let's make you do you push buttons sometimes where you don't know what it does now you're a hacker so everybody's

a hacker and normally I give prizes away to my audience I tell them it tastes like french cheese which you have put to an estray so I give them away you can win them but they have them here so let's figure it out Cooper also brought some stuff thank you Cooper but it's not needed this time uh and because we are all hackers and no matter we've traded it in for bunnies so if you win you get a bunny right this is me uh in the old days I pushed a lot of butons my parents were not so happy with me I played with the old modems anyone knows the modems still yeah L people are laughing we had

phones and you had to dial with with a disc I don't know if anybody knows that it was really cool and you called in the BBS and then when you downloaded stuff your mother downstairs took the horn and everything was gone again it was crazy times I got into hacking I got in a police F I didn't or I did I don't know uh and eventually I started my own company and what I always wanted to do was the hackers I know all the guys like you combine them put them in a room Drive in a car or washing machine or whatever and you get it broken back after a week or two and that's what

we're building now with this company but I'm not commercial so we go on um I wish I would be hacking all the time but sadly I'm I have become this lately on TV on the radio it's unbelievable but it's in the Netherlands so I'm hoping you don't have any problems with me here um and for a price what's this what are we looking at engine year the credle of the internet the credle of the internet do you know the year uh 197 something8 83 three yeah first winner this is the old days and I was three years old so I I haven't seen this but I played a lot and I'm really happy that there's no

logging really happy you could do anything you wanted in my in my days that's why I'm standing wait wait this is so fantastic I'm on a time limit in my three days uh in free spare time I'm a member of The Guild of the grumpy old hackers so if you want to join please do uh we don't have I think anybody in Germany at the moment what we try to do is the younger hackers who find stuff and who break stuff and who go live with big big databases we talk to them and we try to explain that the the things they're doing is not so very nice and you you have better ways of making sure

that somebody knows their database act so we try to help those guys and then in my free time I also do the Cavalry I don't know if anybody knows covery here yeah good we do medical stuff we do car stuff and we try to get uh companies to be more secure in their development Cycles anybody got this you can you can you can download it come on guys this one you can download this one you can download even this one it's downloadable it's unbelievable that guys who do this exam post a picture of it come on um and then even I don't have any certificate and I still get meals like this from our state Secretary of

justice and Security in the Netherlands and when you answer the email you get invited into creepy things like this one and you have to advise the European Union on how to deal with hackers does anybody know the lady over there yeah one with the implants I yeah but you already have who said marry Mo sorry sorry light it's okay marry Mo she has an implant and she's hacking her own implants her braise makers unbelievable right so we go um we're ready for a small ride into what normal people don't know yes yes cool security the basics Segways are Segways secure does it look secure you know if I'm standing here I'm pretty scared on the other side it's

better but as long as their tools to remotely kill stuff like that no segue are secured and they need help I think the keyot because I haven't heard a lot of them but the idea is that you have a button and you can kill a segue remotely within a couple of meters so help this is our King by the way follow Wi-Fi secure everybody's laughing come on normally I have a team and they're like yes we're secure well as long as you have guys like this in your street you know you have problems uh we use the best tools and we use of course the best antennas you know who's built one of those yeah they were great right best

antennas r no Wi-fi just internets secure no no sniffers and stuff like this but have you seen this one you have has anybody seen it is no this is this is found in the harbor of Andre and it was connected to a printer who was printing the package slips for all the containers in the harbor and uh the printer didn't work as well as it should do and they looked at it and they found this thing connected to it and no problem but the normal ones were white with a red label so that's kind of creepy and they opened it up and they found a raspberry pie and it transmitting everything to criminals offsite which is brilliant unless a

criminal and you're color blind you could have done it a long time and they paid the guy who placed this €250 and it was a cleaner so thank you cleaners for doing stuff like that uh well this one you probably know USB secure n n and for a bunny hands in the air if you know what this thing does you want I got already you get another one y there you go yay I didn't that's a lamp it's a USB killer everybody knows what it does it just blows up your PC and then normal people think why would you do that why would you put something that blows up your motherboard into your PC well you don't

you put a label on it finance and you place it near your competitors offices that's the idea okay let's make it a little bit harder Standalone PC secure so you have a PC and a glass room no people behind it no cables no Wireless nothing is it secure is it turned off it is turned off then no no we have friends in Israel who make a malware which reacts to heat signatures so one PC with a heat signature can connect to another one and give it commands brilliant if you run a nuclear power plant and they even make stuff like this through of all crypto and the latest one is even more fun have you seen this one they made some mware

which makes your lead of your drive blink and it's a kind of Morse code so you can put up a drone on top and read the Mars of the drive brilliant I would like to go on holiday there there was one with the fan of the computer with the also yeah this goes there's a lot of stuff like this and it's nice really nice are humans secure no come on they're secure but as long as you people like this one this one is great or this one ni this one is one of my favorites brilliant especially him you know like H When I close my eyes nothing will happen nothing will happen you they discover lot of BS from the world yeah

and you can reuse them it's called reposal yeah repr proposal and in the Netherlands we have students and uh when they're uh in the summer and they're in the pool and they have a little bit to drink they get hungry right so what do you do when you're a student you connect stuff easy one wow brilliant so as long there's guys like that then yeah uh there's a problem and we are hackers and I can say that also to board and to government I just say don't click [ __ ] and if people in your offices click [ __ ] they have to wear Dead hat for a week problem it's gone pretty fast this works this saves you tens of

thousands of dollars come on guys use it and did you know for instance you have to help sometimes that in 1979 an astronaut from Nigeria was sent into space with the Russians did you know and the Soviet Union collapsed and they went back but they left him there because they need to get stuff back and there was no room for him so that poor guy is still in space since 1980 and he just needs a little bit of money to get back so if you get this Meal please click and please send some money and you never know maybe somewhere in Nigeria there is a guy who actually wants to give you money so live a little and click the

emails yeah please then all the um uh corporate guys always ask yeah yeah yeah nice nice nice but how do you get in well easy I walk with the smokers but there are not so many smokers anymore so from the heing community to the world start smoking again please it makes our life a lot easier what we always do is uh go to the trash and lastly in the Netherlands we were at a bank and we found a document which states what you must do when the bang is robbed and you couldn't press a button and it was as uh delivered as open one door wait 10 seconds open another door close that one then you trigger an alarm

and that stuff was in the trash it's unbelievable I like it but it's unbelievable and the best thing is this one first a we go to a desk and we say well this is the first a drill we have one person with a big burn and that person has has an accident and has to be in the server room because that's where the accident happen and we get brought in the server room we get the plug-in USB we get a Band-Aid and we walk out of there it's that easy if you're a hacker to get in and then when I'm get in I always wonder about this one if you guys have to choose do you choose look number

one or number two come on number two number two why are all the keys behind luck number one the most easy to pick luck is the luck of the cabinet over there it's unbelievable you guys have to think but you use TXS of course and then you know probably this guy as well Chris who can copy tags I think at 22 meters at the moment so that's fun that's the way we get in and then everybody thinks all those hackers are hacking mobile stuff doing all the difficult work working with sets etc etc but normally the only thing we have are the communications between everything if you have a nice app and you have a nice web server why don't you

fix your old API server the most easy things to heck are those things and if you look at it this is how easy it normally is any of you guys test a lot of apps do you agree with this yes yes how do we fix stuff like this shoot the developer shoot it our guns legal in Germany I don't know we should try and as long as it's easy like this you know just uh put some PHP stuff and I know this is for you it's way too easy but for normal people this is like what is he doing well he's putting in easy stuff in Easy fields which you forgot to check and that's why

we can get your passwords with just a cat in code and when we can upload an Ecard we can also upload a script a script PHP for instance then we get fireworks and we get your server it's that easy for everybody so then you come here everything is hackable but who is doing the hacking and the next slide I got from Chris Chris Nickerson um and it depresses us if you type in hackers in Google you get this I never wear a ski mask when I'm do you you should you should does it work it improves your hacking skills oh but we we tried the contents once with those ski mask and then eating pizza it was

really messy it was really messy and yeah of course we are hoodie guys but mostly because it's easy life X these are the real hackers and for a bunny these are the guys who change the world who make things different that one you all know and that one you all know yes that not say yes say the name Tesla Tesla good you got another of money touring touring those are the guys but I thought this was too easy for you so I put in in another picture here we go again a come on you're hackers Carson no yeah Carson no come on people hackers notice this major malfunction ad Lori Adam Lori last one you get a bunny anyway fed

F these are hacker brains come on come on try it and and if you see hackers I mean can you identify hackers just by looking at it is is number one is that the hacker sure no sure yeah number two no no yes yes he number three no number four de he's brilliant he works for me that that guy saved the Netherlands sometimes because there were a lot of scatter systems in the Netherlands and they had a default password which says 1 2 3 4 and then when you had to change the password which everybody was advised to do and you put an exclamation mark or a hash it reverted to the original password because it couldn't cope with

exclamation marks and it was 1 two 3 4 again brilliant he's one of the guys who who helped with that stuff script kitties we all know it just downloading stuff and trying to hack we should not lock them up by the way I think we should train them Barnaby Jack best presentation ever getting money Spilled Out of his containers that's brilliant I also like the story when he asked for those cash machines to be delivered in his first floor apartment and the guy delivered him and asked why would you put in cash machines in your in your apartment he said well if I have to go to the bar I have to walk a block to get

money and now I can pin in my own home it's brilliant but stuff um only problem is that after this he went into pacemaker research and unfortunately two weeks before he presented the pacemaker research he was found dead in his apartment um still a problem for some of us and others say well it was just a party animal so we don't know but yeah how much would it cost if all the Pacemakers had to be removed and replaced other people you don't know this is Oliver works for us he did um a hack at United last and he got 1 million air miles from United which is really cool we all flew to Vegas only problem in the Netherlands

is that we have something called Tax Administration or something and they say well every mile is 0.02 cents so please add 20,000 to your income unbelievable and then he hacked the tax administration and he got a cup so so are all hackers evil know and this is what we're here about who of you use responsible disclosure actively on their side one two three four five six everybody no do you know does anybody not know what responsible disclosure is okay so everybody knows it basically this is I think one of the first instances of responsible disclosure for a bunny games yeah over there I didn't know I'm not throwing anymore sorry I want Kil in war games

the guy found something big and did everything he could by himself to fix it more war games more war games normal people don't know war games and in the Netherlands we are running front for responsible disclosure at least I think we have a lot of hackers who um work in responsible disclosure who even quit their jobs to just do responsible disclosures and we have also the prosecution office and this is the boss of the prosecution office in the Netherlands who even have an advisory uh law which states that if a hacker um did the good things he just won't get prosecuted even if you as a company will indict him so that's unbelievable and that guy is also pretty cool if you talk

to him later it took a while before he knew this but he's righted and they uh by the way sent their uh stuff public last month so if you want to know uh in Germany how the Dutch public prosecutor works with responsible disclosure and how they embed edited in their laws uh follow yonam he's one of the NCC guys and they disclosed the page and it basically says uh if you have all the answers to not doing weird things with our data correct then we will refrain from conducting criminal criminal investigation to you which is great because this is what gets you to uh gets you helped by the hackers this is Victor I don't know if anybody

knows him Victor gers he did a lot of stuff with the databases he also did a lot of mongod to be uh yeah helping so he called out companies who had problems with [ __ ] and he even now gets listens in the offices in the Netherlands this is again a brilliant picture you have a soldier who needs everything and you have a hacker in Justus a shirt and people listen nowadays this is one of the studs he delivered from last year he just does 20 now 15 hours a day of responsible disclosures in the Netherland and interesting uh things in China they fix stuff in approximately 5 days which is pretty cool I didn't think China

would be on top of there and the Netherlands is pretty slow there's no Germany I think in here Belgium France France at the bottom because French people apparently don't know they have internet but but you have to if you if you're going to work with responsible disclosure so put a stuff on your side saying well if you uh help me I will uh not prosecute you and I will get you a prize maybe if you are going to do that [ __ ] you will get a lot of stuff reported and some stuff is actually pretty cool uh some stuff is actually not so cool I will give a few examples in a moment we at zeroc copter also have

a lot of researchers inhouse um connected to us and when we run Rd programs we see that most of the reports which are actually good are not from our researches so that's pretty cool uh if you look at Shu Phillips another Dutch company they had 1,000 RDS in the last year but from those 1,000 RDS responsible disclosures only two were good enough to get a t-shirt so you get 1,000 uh messages and only two are actually fact and what do we give them well we give them shirts shirts like those are probably the best I kpn and all I got was this lousy t-shirt excellent um we ALS Al give government shirts out but the banks are doing

better thingss does anybody know what the Dutch bank did for the last responsible disclosures they gave cool stuff they gave gold bars wow how to get hackers involved we give them gold excellent uh I give them shirts mostly um when they're in Costa Rica I'll bring the shirts myself of course you have to go there and the most fun part we always see is in India when we got responsible to Clos from India and they uh have to get a shirt they give out really weird addresses like this one and I'm not sure how that ever works but this stuff works you know then you get a call about a week later and say well thank you for

the shirt I got it and we're like hi UPS woo those guys oh let's do some nice taals from the from the Rd side by the way have you seen that one I got it bigger it's excellent you walk in Russia in a park and it's a bit fogy and you look up and you see a Windows error message from 5 by 10 or something you're like oh what did I drink yesterday in Russia that's pretty normal but it's an actual building running Windows unbelievable how did they ever think of that it does commercials for phones and stuff like that well some of the stuff we get is um yeah responsible disclosure I have to warn you you have

Port 3128 open anyone it's a squid it's your local squid proxy so people are reporting that in their local network they have an open squid Pro wow nice thank you go act yourself second I want to warn you that you have a problem somewhere with a server maybe uh with SSL or maybe with Bing this is not pretty specific and we cannot do anything about it uh it's called draget Rd and it's very old as you can see on this picture people are doing it for a long time these ones are also cool uh even with a proof of concept uh that if you go to this site you get redirected to another site and

there you can suggest a username and password and if you find it we can break in all right so we have in you need an SSL server with two Factor identication but well no problem and if you guess the username and password then you're in WoW responsible disclosure it's not what we're looking for and these ones are always the best I want to warn you that you are vulnerable too and then you get one weird CV number you get two bottles of M and a bunny if you know what this number is nobody this a PHP mailer remote code execution and we get this on the Ruby on reals app what are you completely mental it's not a

nice picture uh more difficult is when we have honey pots and you get a message that they found a lot of ports open on your honey pod what do you say as a company are you going to say well yeah that's my honey or are you silently shipping them a shirt and please don't talk about it it's difficult you don't know and this one is also nice so anybody know what this one was it's an older one it's still funny this is a reply khil got uh when he uh put his bug in for Facebook and they said well sorry it's not a bug and then khil said all right I post it on Mark

site itself so he did account take over and he posted I'm sorry for privacy Invasion and posting on your wall but nobody listens this is also not very nice but it works one of the best ones are the responses of some guys you get like this one Kevin Wilson I don't know if he's still alive but uh we reported somebody reported an xss and he replied with it looks like you're trying to add JavaScript in the field and that's not meant for JavaScript you are supposed to do letters and numbers and not JavaScript brilliant well how does responsible disclosure look for us it looks like this submit your values don't take advantage of vulnerability you find

don't go to the Press don't download stuff you don't need and just help us get stuff resolved and if you do that we will make sure you don't get prosecuted and we will negotiate with you if you would like a t-shirt or whatever that's it this is what gets hackers to help you and is responsible disclosure backed in Germany by the the law and stuff like that not so we should fix it it's up to you guys you will get a copy of this presentation and you go in and you present it and you will get it fixed well if it's not stop breaking the law we at the moment are in the Netherlands getting responsible

disclosures for a lot of countries around us so heckers from Germany are giving us responsible disos for companies in Germany why because in the Netherlands they won't get prosecuted is that easy well let's go to the fun part what do blackheads do they do different stuff they do zero days and they sell their zero days to the NSA and question is this the logo no yes no they have ears everywhere but not in their logo I think now these are um payout ranges from uh um I think two or three years ago uh about when you have a zero day how much do you get for them and at that time if you had an Apple iOS

zero day you could get up to $500,000 uh this list is recently updated and you see theice it's now up to $1.5 million for the same bug and that's difficult because we want the hackers to go to bug bounties and to go responsible disclosure and do stuff like that and not go into the criminal corner so what the criminals and the the other companies are doing now is upping upping upping in the hopes that hackers are still giving of getting the money from them instead of giving it to the good cost little close to home what do black ads do well you all seen this probably yes it's the crypto Locker anybody knows what crypto lockers are yeah yeah lot of

problems and these are old version we have more upto-date versions with more payout possibilities and and even QR codes and stuff it's fancier you know it looks better if you if you make it like this and they also had something which was pretty unique do you know what what was unique when these guys started what did they do it's easy customer service customer service talk I'm giving it that way they had customer service and they even had customer service based on where you called from so if you called from the Netherlands you got a lady in ding oh no everything in crypted unbelievable we can fix it you just have to pay us and we'll help you it's brilliant it works

works this is one of the latest ones by the way you go out for a coffee you come back and you get this it sucks you go back for another cup of coffee and then when you get back you have to pay well if you think all those hackers are really smart guys well not necessarily do you know tux it's your crypto Weare as a service you can just type in a cause and you can type in the amount of money you want and then you send it out to all your friends and if they pay 20% of their uh money goes to the guys who made this and 80% to you it's brilliant concept of crypto

Weare as a service right um people then ask okay you tell a lot of stories but show me a real world example well this is one I did before I joined copter last year and it was a big Energy company in the Netherlands and they came to me and they gave me um a room a patch and coffee and one week to find their uh hidden treeses their their most important data that's what they on it so I got in objective get the crown jewels and I connected my laptop to the to the ports uh and the first hop I found was this which is a switch which is that's no problem I couldn't change anything but the amount

of information coming from the switch was pretty much and I could even see the V lens and they were so nice as to name the V lens based on what was there so Surfers nice they probably have fuel and shielding but no they didn't so I scanned that Network and I found this WOW Dell I with this you can connect to a Dell server and just be like you're in front of it so take the screen REM Stu so what do we do when we see this as hackers what do we do leave it B leave it be come on you get paid if you find Ro Force root Force ad admin admin admin and then if that doesn't work admin root

no do Google Google for the Del this most important hacker tool Google and the D IR default username and password is root and the password is gelvin but this is an energy company in the Netherlands so this won't work right right right def POS warning wow this is not very good so did we change it know we left it like this we clicked and we were owners of the Dell but that means we could physically access and control the servers but not we don't didn't have the data yet so we scaned the other net and we found this a drobo a network attached storage thingy and what do network attached storage thingy do they get used

for back backups so they we tried to get into the sharers for Windows it didn't work but then we port scan the thing and we find ice szie any of you old guys know what ice szie is even young guys who can mount yeah so I mounted the complete Dro on my Mac and I had a copy of their complete backup So within an hour and a half I had access to physical access to all the servers and I had a backup of everything they had so end of story in one and a half hour that's how easy it is and then you talk to those guys and you explain what you did and they say oh okay so if we change change

the password we're fixed again no sorry you have to do a little bit more but now we get to the real good stuff because why are hackers hacking um these stats I got once and I like them very much they state that about 5% 5% of all the hackers do it for a good cause you know responsible disclosure want to help make sure the world gets better 5% 30% is in for Espionage that means China hecking into something and cloning everything I have a nice example of that I think next slide yes uh activists um Anonymous people like that 15% then we have about 10% script kitties so wanting to hack but not sure how and just

destroying stuff and 40% still gets money from the criminals but what if we could change it what if we could do bug bounties responsible disclosure even pay for patching then we could maybe get those 40% over to the other side and if we train the 10% of script kitties we have 55% good hackers on the internet that would be awesome I would like it unless it's not like this um in 2009 America wanted to build a jet fighter and they send a team into China to figure out when China also could build a jet fighter acqu those same specs they wanted to build the F22 and they came back the teams and they said well by

2020 China can also build a jet fighter as advanced as we are wanting to build now so they build this it's nice it's a l USF F22 but nine months later we get this picture of the changu G20 how how did they do it well they hacked into loed and they copied everything from their design until they're printing so everything was printed by loed was printed one month later in China and you get stuff like this but now I think loit is even making sure that um everything they design all the errors are actually IND designed so could be a problem in the future if people are printing the designs and the guy who knows where the error is is sick

at the moment well let's do some iot sh um don't mess with old people this is one of the most important slides because iot basically is I have an idea I go to a somewh with a lot of money I buy some developers from school and then a couple of hours later or weeks or months I have 2 million devices out in the open with no security and we as old hackers can still use our same tooling and our same bug finding as we did 20 30 years ago because every developer is making the same mistakes at the moment it's real funny and I don't want this I'm not sure you guys want this but this is not something I would

like it's really shitty this one is brilliant does anybody know what this is this is really brilliant this is a trap for self-driving car try to get out of it you can only push it out it's brilliant this is what we do this is the fun stuff we do and by the way the s in iot stands for security have you seen the the the Defcon talks last year about the guy with the needle it was brilliant it was a device which was made for a lot of money uh and it was unhackable and then some guy came with the brilliant idea of scratching between flesh and CPU when the device booted and what that does is if you try

to do it two times it goes into default root recovery mode and you're in so you have a$2 billion secure device you have a hacker with a needle and the problem is solved again well can we fix [ __ ] like this yeah of course we can we have to make sure that we tell the world that they have to code safely from the start that's the only way you have tools like these you know them I guess oasp SKF security knowledge framework it will just guide you uh into how you have to goach securely if you uh have developers who don't know how to goach securely let them fill in the SKF the OS SKF is free

and they will be guided in whatever language they choose to make sure that what they code is pretty secure that's one of the things we as hackers can do and then you get a lot of questions I get a lot of question yeah but what what if we use open source I mean open source is secure right everybody looking at the code well nobody looks at the code of Open Source so that's also not working have you seen this bug it was in the encryption Davian encryption set and the password was P for everything you entered so you insert this dis encryption and when you try to spin it up the password is p it doesn't

matter what I get a lot is all right we have a bad software we want to make it better so let's encrypt all the software brilliant idea uh only problem is that when I get an accident I don't want my doctor to be five minutes longer in diagnosing me because he has to decit [ __ ] uh if you look at cars you can hack a lot of cars and there are now car manufacturers who are encrypting their data in the buses and there's also been an investigation that if you put the brake in one of those cars the signal is 0.03 seconds later at the break break in an encrypted bus is in a non-encrypted

bus I don't like that I don't want stuff like that and this is encryption you know you cannot hear what they say but you see who's talking to each other and a lot of guys before us discussed this already because it's called metad yeah and what do Americans say about metadata yes that's nice if you're a terrorist you're talking encrypted with somebody else that's probably also a terrorist gone that's how it works right I'm almost done it's almost time for beers I think are there any beers here yeah almost uh a couple of things I want to mind to everybody security never is a box a lot of vendors say well now I now have a box and you put it in front of

the internet and no hacker will ever pass well that's a challenge and it doesn't work it's never a box uh if we use our researchers to do bug bounties and stuff like that um companies come to us and say well Zer copter is pretty cool I want to work with them H they can hack me but only on Friday from 4: till 6 because my server is not that busy at that time that doesn't work our researchers mostly need three weeks the first week they try everything the second week they Netflix and think about stuff and in the third week they break it and scope is also pretty important I mean scope is not just a server scope is everything from

my laptop to the server because if we can get in from from the back uh then you want to know I think and this is also still something uh Caron no just did a big talk about it um we tend to focus in hacking on all those great and advanced hacks which will probably never reach a company and why we focus on hacking a phone with sound waves you still get pwned because somebody clicks on a malware link or whatever so try to to convince people to focus on the normal stuff and not just on the excellent big stuff and yeah we hackers are not the most angry people the Cyber squirrel and the Sharks how what threaten the

internet that's a wi here good one right uh I'm at the end I just wanted to share one last slide with you which I share with the world hackers are pretty nice people we here are pretty nice people and we can help companies but companies have to understand us and the governments have to understand us and have to look more to us and ask us to help and that's what we are trying to do and the best slide to show that to everybody in the world is this one it's that easy you know we are pretty nice people come on we can make the world better let's do this all right thank you very very

much

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